The Instigator
apalmer
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
imabench
Con (against)
Winning
5 Points

Theodore Roosevelt was not a very good president

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
imabench
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/12/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,355 times Debate No: 69930
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (1)

 

apalmer

Pro

Theodore Roosevelt wasn't the amazing president that everyone proclaims he is. He may have been a 'go-getter" but his methods were extremely brutal. He did whatever it took to win in politics as well as in life.
imabench

Con

I'll give this a whirl.

I accept and shall argue that Theodore Roosevelt was indeed a very good president, and arguably one of the top 10 presidents in American History.

You may present your case
Debate Round No. 1
apalmer

Pro

Theodore Roosevelt was a stubborn man, which is usually celebrated in a president. However, he took his ego to an extreme level. Roosevelt was a political animal. In the instance of the Brownsville Affair he dishonorably discharged black troops only AFTER he had secured the black-vote. The motive for this was purely political.
Many people complain today that the executive branch is overpowering the other branches, this can be largely contributed to Roosevelt. He even said, ""I believe in power"I did greatly broaden the use of executive power"The biggest matters I managed without consultation with anyone, for when a matter is of capital importance, it is well to have it handled by one man only "I don"t think that any harm comes from the concentration of power in one man"s hands."
imabench

Con

"Theodore Roosevelt was a stubborn man"

Opinion

"he took his ego to an extreme level"

Opinion

"Roosevelt was a political animal"

Opinion



"In the instance of the Brownsville Affair he dishonorably discharged black troops only AFTER he had secured the black-vote"


Okay its become evident now that you clearly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

For starters, the Brownsville Affair happened in 1906 which happened 2 years AFTER Roosevelt had already been elected, and he didnt run in the election of 1908 two years after that, so he had no political motivations for his decision in the affair what-se-ever

Blacks barely HAD any voting power around 1900. The Civil Rights movement that led to the repeal of poll taxes and other practices used to dispel the black vote didnt come until 1965, which means that the black vote was pretty nonexistent to begin with. In addition to that, Roosevelt didnt even NEED the black vote, he won the 1904 election by a healthy majority

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Lastly, the Brownsville Affair took place in Texas when several townspeople in Brownsville accused black troops stationed nearby for two crimes, and evidence was fabricated against them to imply their guilt. Roosevelt's job isnt to be a damn detective, he likely was told that there was evidence agains the troops for the incidents, evidence he had know way of knowing was planted in the first place, and dismissed them accordingly.

http://en.wikipedia.org...



"Many people complain today that the executive branch is overpowering the other branches, this can be largely contributed to Roosevelt"

Actually it cannot. Evidence of the level of government spending under Theodore Roosevelt was actually among some of the lowest levels ever recorded, and the huge increase in the size of government didnt occur until well after Theodore Roosevelt was no longer president.

http://object.cato.org...
http://www.usgovernmentspending.com...



"He even said...."

Look bud, you haven't provided any sources suggesting that any of those quotes belong to him, or any sources that anything else you have said so far is even remotely true either. Until you do I shall reject your claims as false, and I point back to my evidence suggesting that Teddy Roosevelt didnt expand the government that much to begin with.
Debate Round No. 2
apalmer

Pro

The Brownsville Affair did not affect Roosevelt's election, it affected the Republican controlled Congress. The administration withheld this event from the public until after the black pro-Republicans had placed their votes. You say that Roosevelt doesn't have to be a detective but it wasn't like he was only given this one option. Booker T. Washington even came to him and asked him to reconsider his position but he denied it and stood by his decision.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

An overpowering executive branch doesn't have to correlate with astronomical government spending. The spending was low for that time but Roosevelt still pushed for a strong executive branch. I stand by the use of the quote, ""I believe in power"I did greatly broaden the use of executive power," but apologize for not naming my sources last round:
http://www.cato.org...

President Roosevelt signed 1,081 Executive Orders. Although President Obama has been criticized for taking control of government through his excessive use of executive orders, even he has only issued 194 executive orders.
http://www.theodore-roosevelt.com...
http://en.wikipedia.org...
http://thehill.com...

Another point I would like to bring up is President Roosevelt's grooming of the next president, William Howard Taft. When that backfired on him Roosevelt decided to run again under the Progressive party. This ultimately split the vote and put Woodrow Wilson into office.
http://us-presidents.findthebest.com...

President Roosevelt was not the great president everybody believes him to be.
imabench

Con

"The Brownsville Affair did not affect Roosevelt's election, it affected the Republican controlled Congress"

1 affair happening in 1 town in the state of TEXAS, the state that almost always votes for the conservative party as if their lives depend on it, clearly and strongly suggests that this affair in no means had any effect on the midterm elections of 1906. Even if people learned that the claims made against the black soldiers were completely fabricated, President Roosevelt had nothing to do with that, he only made the wrong decision of discharging the soldiers, and making one mistake one time doesnt disqualify him from being a great president and negate all the great things he did.



"President Roosevelt signed 1,081 Executive Orders."

Feel free to point out which ones you have a problem with because there's nothing wrong with passing a thousand Executive Orders when a large majority of those orders have to do with mundane affairs such as

"Mr. F. A. Collins may be appointed to the vacancy now existing in the position of private secretary to the Public Printer without examination under the civil-service rules."

or

"It is hereby ordered that San Nicolas Island, California, be and it is hereby reserved for lighthouse purposes."

He may have passed 1,000 Executive Orders but that isnt itself somehow a bad thing considering an overwhelmingly large majority of them were about perfectly harmless and mundane affairs. Feel free to go through them yourself:

http://www.theodore-roosevelt.com...



"Another point I would like to bring up is President Roosevelt's grooming of the next president, William Howard Taft"

Oh spare me.... What President HASN'T thrown his entire support behind someone in their own party when that person decided to run for President after them? Clinton did it for Al Gore, and Reagan did it for George HW, but neither of them are somehow bad presidents for doing the exact same thing that countless other presidents, including Theodore Roosevelt, did before them. There's also nothing inherently wrong with a soon-to-be former President endorsing someone to be President after them either.



"President Roosevelt was not the great president everybody believes him to be."

- Created the National Parks system to protect national natural treasures
- Kickstarted the Progressivist movement that led to the creation of the middle class and ended the Gilded Age
- Improved the American military, mostly the navy, under the 'Speak Softly and Carry a Big Stick' idea to improve American influence
- Won the Nobel Peace Prize for ending the Russo-Japanese War in 1904.
- Passed the Meat Inspection and Pure Drug + Food Acts to ensure that our food wasnt stuffed with rat feces anymore
- He's on Mt Rushmore where being a great president is kind of a requirement
- Military veteran and war hero

And thats just off the top of my head.

Theodore Roosevelt was a great president who had a few hiccups here and there like any great other president does. Pro has fallen drastically short of proving that Theodore Roosevelt was a bad president, therefore you all should vote con.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by apalmer 2 years ago
apalmer
I really have nothing against President Roosevelt, he is actually one of my favorite presidents! In my government class we are having a presidential debate. I am President Roosevelt in the debate so I wanted to see what I could dig up and how to defend against that. Much thanks to imabench for participating in this controversial debate!
Posted by Gackhammer 2 years ago
Gackhammer
@LostintheEcho1498 Go for it. I was gonna take it, but seeing as you're an AP US student, it might help you in your education and might help you with them DBQ questions in May!!!
Posted by Beagle_hugs 2 years ago
Beagle_hugs
I'm not sure what your assertions have to do with your claim.

It's like saying that Caesar wasn't a great leader because he killed people.
Posted by LostintheEcho1498 2 years ago
LostintheEcho1498
Hmm tempting. If this is still unclaimed in about 4 to 5 days ill take it. I am in AP US History and we are actually learning about Roosevelt now. I'll have to see which way I lean.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by daytonanerd 2 years ago
daytonanerd
apalmerimabenchTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct, as well as S&G, are tied. Con effectively refuted every single one of pro's arguments, while pro dropped many of his first round points in his second round, and didn't fulfill the BOP of showing that Roosevelt wasn't very good. Pro didn't even use sources in the first round, so source point to con.