The Instigator
SimonSmasher
Pro (for)
The Contender
Asym
Con (against)

Theory of Evolution

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Voting Style: Open Point System: Select Winner
Started: 11/14/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 5 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 258 times Debate No: 105041
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

SimonSmasher

Pro

The points of evidence I will be using for my argument:

a. Structural and behavioral similarities point to common ancestors

b. Fossil evidence displays intermediate species

c. Genetics prove common ancestry

I am limiting my content to just three arguments, I'd like if my opponent could do the same so we stay focused and on topic.
Asym

Con

I will use the same structure to prove that "Evolution Theory" is only a theory, as the title suggests, and has not developed into a universally acknowledged scientific law or fact. It cannot convincingly and with certainty explain the life form particularly the life form of us humans. At most what the theory does or aims at doing is giving explanation of life form. It aims at explaining how different life forms that exist today have attained their current form by undergoing changes over a long period of time. It is important to note that the evolution theory was developed by a certain faction of scientists which does not necessarily represent the view entire community of scientists.

I would also suggest that my opponent must limit the discussion to humans species only in the interest of having a purposeful debate as there are other millions of species out there discussing them would be next to impossible.

Since I am a believer of ONE TRUE GOD, the grand designer and creator of all that exists, I would not dare to challenge the way HE has created his creations or what stages it undergo in its life cycle and I admit that I have limited scientific knowledge to lodge that challenge.

My argument would be limited in challenging that there are absolutely No:

(a) Structural and behavioral similarities that point to common ancestors with respect to us humans.

(b) Fossil evidence displays intermediate species

(c) Genetics prove common ancestry

and all these points are formulated and conceived with an aim to deny the existence of ONE TRUE GOD.

These are flawed points a with no evidence to suggest commonality particularly between evolution of APES into human species. These theories are propounded by mostly atheists.

If this argument was true as my friend suggests than could my friend answer the following points for me and others.

1. Why has my tail disappeared instead of growing into a longer tail and why this phenomenon is universally being observed and uniform in among all human beings?

2. Why APES are only transforming into better and civilized human specie with high intellect why not the other way round to grow into some monster like creature?

3. You are making such a tall claim but you cannot point out one missing link or intermediate form on the planet for us? Why does this theory of evolution have to rely on presumptions and subjective human knowledge and input mostly of atheist scientist?

4. We have surely monkeys, apes chimpanzee and gorillas i.e. our past ancestors but where on earth are intermediate ancestors. Why science has to resort to digging up fossils and remains which too cannot be judged by ordinary humans as belonging to their ancestors. We are fed with distorted and false claims?

5. Why am I seeing all the apes, gorillas and chimpanzees? Has their transformation and growth stopped or become stunted? Why are they not transforming into humans anymore? Why no research has been done to establish the fact that our humans are in the process of transformations or has the process come to a halt?

6. Why do we not witness any gradual change that evolution proposes and claims has been taking place since ages now? Why do we have to dig up and look for fossils to find the missing link?

7. Why are not more monkeys transforming into an in between monkey and human state? Why the genetic process has stopped? Is it because of lack of proper nourishment or what?

8. Why cant we find one missing link that is alive yet we see or ancestors in the zoo?

9. On the other side why humans are not transforming into some other specie or form?

10. Why our ancestors the apes and monkeys not like us anymore making tools and stuff for their well being let alone being engineers doctors and lawyer and scientists?

11. Why all humans share common bodily forms and parts with exception of size and color?

12. Why humans can review and question their knowledge and apes and monkeys cant do that?

If you give me answers to my questions I will accept your argument. But the fact is scientific theories keeps on changing the TRUTH does not. Stick to the truth read QURAN get answers .

It was science that claimed that earth was flat but it turned out to be round.
Debate Round No. 1
SimonSmasher

Pro

You mentioned in your opening statement that only a fraction of scientists regard evolution as fact, which is EXTREMELY incorrect. It is the other way around, in 1987, only 700 out of 480,000 polled scientists disagreed with evolution. That was 30 years ago, now the number is even lower! Here's my source, there's an entire Wikipedia article just on this topic:
https://en.wikipedia.org...

You ask me to limit only to the discussion of humans, which I accept (however I will use other species for examples to aid in my points).

You say because you are a follower of god, this means you can't possibly allow for yourself to believe in evolution, when in reality MANY people of faith also believe in evolution as it is literally a FACT. There is no debate on the topic, it is simply a fact. Even the pope agrees with evolution!
http://www.independent.co.uk...

I will now answer all 12 of your questions:

1. Your question had two parts:
a. Homo sapiens stopped growing tails because our ancestors (the great apes) stopped climbing trees, and began walking upright. Without the need for a tail, it's growth became stunted (which can be seen in other species of monkeys and apes alive today). Eventually we lost the tail completely, but we can see we once had a tail due to the tailbone.
b. This phenomenon (called evolution) is uniform in all humans because ALL humans came from the same ancestors who stopped climbing trees and lost their tails.

2. Well first off, apes aren't all transforming into intelligent, civilized creatures; as chimpanzees and gorillas are also the descendants of the great apes from which homo sapiens evolved from (they are evolving down their own paths). Secondly, the reason humans developed a strong intelligence is because it is an adaptation that is beneficial to survival. The way natural selection works is the strong survive. Intelligence was a strong adaptation that has led to our species surviving over our competors.

3. I can point out intermediate forms: https://rationalwiki.org... . The theory of evolution doesn't rely on presumptions and subjective human knowledge, it relies on objective evidence. Furthermore, it relies on the input of mostly atheist scientists because more it is more common for an atheist to support evolution, than someone who also believes in a creator. If you're asking why it relies on input from scientists, it's because those individuals study this field for their whole lives, which objectively makes them the best people to provide insight on the topic.

4. We are not fed with distorted and false claims. One of the key ideas to evolution is that EVERY species alive or dead is a transitional one. All species are constantly evolving, it's just such a slow process that it's difficult to notice. We don't have our ancestors alive today, we didn't evolve from chimps or gorillas, we evolved from the great apes (and so did gorillas and chimps). The reason those great apes we came from are no longer around is also due to another key idea of evolution, which is natural selection. When a new species develops that is better suited for the environment, it will out compete its competition (the old species). This results in extinction of the less suited species, which can be seen as all transitional fossils (from one specie to the next) are extinct, and went extinct in correlation with the emerging of the new species.

5. As mentioned before, you see modern apes because they evolved just as humans did. Their transformation has not stopped. They aren't transforming into humans because evolution doesn't 'know' what the best adaptations are, it just favors those which can survive the best. Intelligence does vastly aid in survival, but it isn't the end all of adaptations. Before humanity developed societies (a biproduct of consciousness), other species were much more suited for survival such as elephants, blue whales, etc. The reason all species aren't constantly becoming intelligent is because their environment doesn't always favor a more developed brain (could be gills, eyesight, etc). Research has been done to establish the fact that humans are in the process of transformation I'll provide a source (but seriously, you could've answered this with a quick google search):
http://www.sciencemag.org...

6. We can see evolution (or rather, adaptation) occur in real time by studying bacteria (I'll attach a source). Furthermore, we can also observe adaptation (and thus evolution) occur by examining species such as Darwin's finches. Evolution doesn't just take evidence from fossils, in fact the most compelling evidence is from DNA (I will provide another source).
https://www.sciencealert.com...
http://humanorigins.si.edu...

7. This is question is almost identical to question 5. Refer to my previous answer.

8. Again, refer to my answer for question 5.

9. Refer to 5.

10. Primates can't make tools because they lack the intelligence to do so. They aren't engineers, doctors, lawyers, or scientists because these are all JOBS that humans created thousands of years after developing societies, all due to our consciousness, which is an widely unknown feature of our brains. Most scientists believe it is an accidental 'side effect' of our incredible intelligence. Since primates (or almost any other species for that matter) have much more primitive brains in comparison to us, they lack the ability to even make the most basic of tools. There's no way they'd have functioning societies as you mention.

11. Refer to 5.

12. Some intelligent primates do actually possess a degree of consciousness, as gorillas can be trained to learn sign language and can exhibit human like qualities (source attached). Even dolphins and orcas possess this ability and are known to develop regional language and cultures (source attached). However, our brains are much more developed than theirs so we have a higher degree of consciousness. Again, we don't fully understand consciousness, but we know that it is a bi-product of our intelligence.
https://en.wikipedia.org...

Science constantly changes because we don't always know what the truth is! That's the whole point of the scientific process, is to constantly question and test what we know. Yet, there are things that we ARE certain on (although certainty is something most scientist shy away from) such as tectonic plate movement, evolution, climate change, etc...

Your last point is a joke, I'm afraid. The earth was theorized to be round for hundreds of years before the Koran was even written, the great Greek philosophers such as Pythagorean, developed the round earth theory in the 400-300s BC.
https://en.wikipedia.org...

All in all, I find your argument laughable. I am sorry to call you out like this, but so much of your debate is baseless, fact-less, and presumptuous. Did you do ANY research for the other side? Why would you try and debate a topic you know NOTHING about? I'm at a loss for words my friend...
Asym

Con

Even a school boy can give a better answer. APES evolving into humans whilst remaining in and still having their original form is devoid of logic and reason. It is because either they are transforming or they are not as they exist too along with humans.

No facts or scientific evidence exist to firmly establish this claim. Evolution Theory at most is a theory and subjective analysis of few atheist hell bent to invent perverted analysis to counter religion and faith based values by calling humans as refined animals. You are taught by atheist that it is matter of survival of the fittest. SO basically being an animal you are free to do whatever you wish with absolutely no restrictions which is directly opposed to religious values. You can choose any identity no matter how perverted it is

Our school boys are led to belief yes this it. This life is what it is and there is no afterlife. It all happened by accident and natural processes. All this order and natural laws have come from a disorder of big bang. Animals went to school became better and now are civilized humans. That is indeed Laughable

Your claim is absurd and illogical for even a three year old kid.

I invite you to understand and read Quran and save yourself from the eternal hell fire that Quran talks about for disbelievers and atheist. Stop consoling yourself with false logic as soon we all have to die and return to One GOD of all.

If you realize one GOD you will be saved.

For me I am only an informer not here to win debates or score points my matter rest with my GOD. I have informed you. The HALL MARKS of God are everywhere for you to observe. The evidence of existence of GOD is overwhelming and cannot be denied.
Debate Round No. 2
SimonSmasher

Pro

Holy, you really didn't get anything from what I said at all... THE APES HUMANS GORILLAS AND CHIMPS EVOLVED FROM ARE NOW EXTINCT! They don't live anymore, if you read the sources I provided you would have realized this. How can you take yourself seriously when you can't take me seriously. If you provided sources, I'd read them! Try being reasonable...

"No facts or scientific evidence exist to firmly establish this claim. Evolution Theory at most is a theory and subjective analysis of few atheist hell bent to invent perverted analysis to counter religion and faith based values by calling humans as refined animals."
YOU CAN'T DEBATE MY FRIEND! I answered all of this, I provided plenty of evidence, plenty of facts, plenty of insight IT'S AS IF YOU DIDN'T READ WHAT I SAID! Please, for the love of god read your opponents points! And if you did read them, why are you repeating yourself?? I provided an answer and you ask the question again. This proves nothing, it's supported by nothing, and it is opposed by everything I said!

"SO basically being an animal you are free to do whatever you wish with absolutely no restrictions which is directly opposed to religious values. You can choose any identity no matter how perverted it is."
HOW DOES ANY OF THIS FACTOR INTO EVOLUTION?! We are debating the theory of evolution, NOT religion itself, nor morality. KEEP MORALITY OUT OF THIS, IT'S IRRELEVANT. If you wanted to make the case that morality and faith DID play a role in the debate, provide EVIDENCE for why it is relevant (or at a bare minimum, some sort of explanation). Spouting random opinions that aren't even on topic is a waste of everyone's time.

"Our school boys are led to belief yes this it." Might I suggest using the BUILT IN grammar and spelling correction? Learn how to speak my friend.

"This life is what it is and there is no afterlife. It all happened by accident and natural processes. All this order and natural laws have come from a disorder of big bang. Animals went to school became better and now are civilized humans. That is indeed Laughable"
WHAT IS THIS ARGUMENT?! I am loosing it man, you just give this point and say it's "laughable". Don't you know how to debate? That's not how this works! THAT'S NOT HOW ANY OF THIS WORKS! You need to at LEAST give an explanation for your claims, preferably you should be giving evidence as well. My friend you accomplished neither with this statement, I am at a COMPLETE loss for words. You can't be taken seriously.

"Your claim is absurd and illogical for even a three year old kid."
AGAIN you make a random claim without ANY explanation nor evidence. When I'm roasting you it's because your COMPLETELY failing in your debating strategies/common sense. Come on, THIS is laughable.

"I invite you to understand and read Quran and save yourself from the eternal hell fire that Quran talks about for disbelievers and atheist. Stop consoling yourself with false logic as soon we all have to die and return to One GOD of all."
Truly, thank you for the invitation (i am being sincere), but AGAIN this is off topic and has NOTHING to do with evolution!

"For me I am only an informer not here to win debates or score points my matter rest with my GOD. I have informed you. The HALL MARKS of God are everywhere for you to observe. The evidence of existence of GOD is overwhelming and cannot be denied."
Firstly, if you're not here to debate LEAVE. You clearly didn't see the damn name of the website. Secondly, AGAIN you're off topic, what the hell does god have to do with our debate on EVOLUTION?? If you're attempting to make the point that the existence of god disproves evolution, THEN SAY SO! You're not even attempting to make a point, you're spouting random nonsense buddy!
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Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by Asym 5 months ago
Asym
If I told someone that the apple IPHONE with the features, functions, components and complex designing just appeared suddenly from nowhere or that it evolved over time when all the ideal components came and got jelled together while its software got updated and refined with passage of time on its own without any outside involvement I would indeed be called mad, foolish idiot etc.. People cannot no matter how ignorant they are believe that an I PHONE came into being out of nothing at its own. My question is how the order, laws of nature, water cycle, weather system, night and day, moon and sun patterns and harmony came into being after one BIG BANG which was a chaotic blast. Should we expect arrangement and order after a Huge Blast.
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