The Instigator
crazypenguin
Pro (for)
Winning
45 Points
The Contender
NonZeroBubble
Con (against)
Losing
32 Points

Ther Border Fence between the USA and Mexico is a bad idea

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/14/2008 Category: News
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 8,417 times Debate No: 1785
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (23)

 

crazypenguin

Pro

Thank you for joining this debate,

First I would like to state my oppening arguments.

There shouldn't be a border fence in between Mexico and the USA because not only does it seem very inconsiderate by showing that we have to block out a country and isolate ourselves and Mexico but also why do we need a big fence showing that we don't want anyone in our country from Mexico.

Second why do we have to create hostillity between two nations who work well together. By building this fence not only do we show that we want nothing to do with them we also show that we want no contact at all. Do we want to create a society with so much anger in in that the other nation has toward us. This is how wars start and revolutions begin.

Third do we really think that Mexico will be fine with this once they see the fence? Are they just going to be happy with this fence and not feel insulted at all? We should take it down immediatly to prevent all this from happening.

Fourth what would other nations think? They think that shutting out a nation to prevent people from coming is a good idea? They would probably think that it was insulting and side with Mexico leaving a bigger war.

Thank you,
NonZeroBubble

Con

I think it could be useful idea mostly depending on the technology Incorporated with the fencing and the physical fence itself. either way, it will be a big step towards what we want and will prevent so many more illegal immigrants crossing, than nothing at all. I think right, this is the best solution, and like i said, depending on the technology incorporated, could be very very useful. lets say a large, virtually impenetrable, fully covering, electrical, barbed wire fence w/ cameras, motion sensors etc. was installed. Even thought this would be expensive and a large investment, i think that would solve the problem, therefore proving that the problem is solvable with a fence at this point in time. The effectiveness of the fence all depends on the US citizens commitment and investment and if they're willing to put the money in from taxes to get this done once and for. The fence idea can be very good but all depending on the technology and physical properties of the fence it self. All in all no matter what fence we make it will be a prevention step, much more efficient than what we have now.
Debate Round No. 1
crazypenguin

Pro

Thank you for joining this debate NonZeroBubble.

First I would like to rebutt my opponents points and then state my own.

My opponent stated that "I think it could be useful idea mostly depending on the technology Incorporated with the fencing and the physical fence itself. either way, it will be a big step towards what we want and will prevent so many more illegal immigrants crossing, than nothing at all" My refutation is that do we really want to stop the illegal immigrants from coming? Numerous American businesses are willing to hire cheap, compliant labor from abroad; such businesses are seldom punished because our country lacks a viable system to verify new hires' work eligibility and illegal immigrants make 52% of jobs in the USA and also when polled for who think that the illegal immigrants work very hard and are good workman was 45% of the US. So who's willing to do those jobs and why should we build a big military base on the border of mexico?

Second my opponent stated that "lets say a large, virtually impenetrable, fully covering, electrical, barbed wire fence w/ cameras, motion sensors etc. was installed. Even thought this would be expensive and a large investment," We can't make the border of Mexico a military base with all those stuff, why must we spend so much money as my opponent stated "Even thought this would be expensive and a large investment". We should spend the money elsewhere on more important topics then to just block illegal immigrants from coming.

Third my opponent stated that "US citizens commitment and investment and if they're willing to put the money in from taxes to get this done once and for." meaning that we would get the money from citizens to build this fence by increasing taxes just to build this thing. Why should we hurt the american economy by increasing taxes just to build this fence while hurting even more by not allowing illegal immigrants in and reducing all the labor greatly. Who would take the jobs then and all the occupations that are occupied currently?

Now to a couple of my points:

We should not build a fence because as my opponent stated it will cost a lot of money and we should spend that money elsewhere more effectively.

We also should not build the fence because it doesn't matter what you build immigrants will still try to come and all the fence will do is create more deaths for immigrants trying to get a better life.

Also why should we build a fence and then just let it stand there, even if we were to build it it would require a lot of maintenance and a lot more money to keep it in shape costing the economy greatly.

Thank you.
NonZeroBubble

Con

I hate to agree with someone in a debate. But i am in unity with you on the point that our economy lives on illegals. There would be many factors going in and out of the situation if they all were forced out.

But when it comes to the literal law and the fence itself, i don't think it would be a bad idea necessarily. Yes, people may feel their taxes should go towards other things but, let's say we had unlimited funds and we could build a fence. It wouldn't be a bad idea. The way i interpreted your debate is as follows... let's say we both want illegals out, you think a fence would be a bad idea opposed to... not that actual issue of illegal immigration. For that issue, yes i do think that we should spend our money on others things, i do think taking illegals out of our economy now would destroy it, but as far as this debate goes, i don't think the fence is a bad idea when it comes to ways to keep illegals out.
Debate Round No. 2
crazypenguin

Pro

Thank you for your prompt reply,
First I will rebutt your points and then move on to more of my own.

My opponent stated "let's say we had unlimited funds and we could build a fence. It wouldn't be a bad idea." My rebuttal to this is that we are far from unlimited funds and we can never reach an amount so great, so this point is irrelevant.

Second my opponent said "let's say we both want illegals out, you think a fence would be a bad idea opposed to... not that actual issue of illegal immigration" I don't want to keep illegas out though because as I said earlier that they make 52% of all our jobs and we need them or else our economy would die, so this to is irrelevant. Also just building a fence to keep illegal immigrants out would do nothing at all, just give a bad impression to other countries.

Third "For that issue, yes i do think that we should spend our money on others things, i do think taking illegal out of our economy now would destroy it, but as far as this debate goes, i don't think the fence is a bad idea when it comes to ways to keep illegal's out." My opponent does agree that we should spend our money on other things and that our economy would die without illegal immigrants so that point just agrees with the pro side. Also the fence can be used to keep illegals out as my opponent stated but do we really want to keep them out?

Thank you for this debate and I hope to debate you again.
NonZeroBubble

Con

its been great debating with you too. Sorry that im not following the formal guidelines and procedures but i do my best:)

ok so first id like to say. The fence, i don't think would too big of asn isolation imapct on other countries. They would know the reason and aaccept why we built it. As i said before in an arguement of... is a fence good opposed to other ways of keeping the illegals out, yes i think it's the best solution right now. But in an arguement of should force illegals out, keep the out, ect, im not sure where i would stand in that debate. As far as other ideas such as employemtn ID cards, those would be far less effective than the fence idea. In addition we don't have to build a fence in the physical you and others are thinking of. Maybe a complex motion sensing borderline would do the job without obstructed and degrading the area.
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by fluffybunnypuff 3 years ago
fluffybunnypuff
securing the boarder= protecting immigrants right to freely travel w/o being blocked, robbed, stolen from, or kidnapped by criminals that call themself boarder guards.
-americans arnt more moral, better, or less likely to be a terrorist/criminal/kidnapper/robber/thieve/abuser/violent offender, than people in other countries or people that want to immigrate to usa
-people unpermitted by gov to live/work there, are scared to report violence, kidnappings, theft, robberies, and property damagers, for fear of getting in trouble for reporting, makeing everyone less safe by makeing it easier to get away with violence.
time and resources could be better spent going after violent offenders, kidnappers, thieves, and robbers, instead of targeting immigrants.
when time and resources are diverted to target innocents= ignoring criminals=makes us less safe.
-employers pay people that gov doesnt permit to work or live there, less than minimum wage, because the worker keeps it a secret so they wont get in trouble by gov
if gov permited them to work and live there, they wouldnt be scared to demand minimum wage, employers wouldnt prefer to hire people that gov doesnt permit to work or live there
-allowing employers to hire based on skill instead of coercing them to discriminate based on citizenship, allows the most talented employees to be hired, resulting in higher quality services and products
-free the prisoners and let them to be independent and start business(pressure the farmer to free you). the solution is not for the prisoners to kill eachother over the 1 job opening.
-its alot cheaper, easier, faster to turn a poor person into a worker/surf/producer/utility/labor, than it is to turn a fetus/baby into a worker
murdering, arresting, and blocking people because there immigrant, is very expensive and unnecessary its free to let them travel and settle and much cheaper to give them some welfare
Posted by ericjpomeroy 9 years ago
ericjpomeroy
Pro and Con were both so terrible I couldn't vote. Between the pro's extremely liberal point of view and the con's total lack of information, this was a terrible debate.
Posted by watchman 9 years ago
watchman
Not only should we have the boarder fence we should have the military sniper schools on the boarder . Military bases on the boarder and shoot to kill legeslation for invaders to our country. This all coming from a american with mexican blood.
Posted by DonaldAbraham 9 years ago
DonaldAbraham
You're argument about the symbolic implications that a border fence would make constitutes a truly intellectually bankrupt argument. Not only is a border fence necessary for a sovereign nation, but its completely necessary for national security reasons. If people can come across freely. So can people who want to bring destructive weapons into the U.S., and by destructive weapons I mean weapons which hold the sole purpose of terrorist attacks. Not only that. But our welfare program, offers huge incentive for individuals who want to come over, not willing to work, but for government handouts. And illegal immigration is so good for our economy, why is it in the shape its in now? Illegal immigrants are a large potential drain on the economy. They take advantage of hospitals who don't turn away individuals, by never paying hospital bills. Not only that, but you truly think its a good idea to have millions of individuals running across America with absolutely no idea to who they are? Especially since many state laws (especially in VA), make it extremely difficult to prosecute illegal immigrants. Not to mention they account for a large percentage of prison inmates.
Posted by righty10294 9 years ago
righty10294
WE should have a border. I prefer the double border system. but i voted pro, because his argument was better, and more perswasive
Posted by wingnut2280 9 years ago
wingnut2280
That being said, I voted PRO. They did a better job in the debate and I would like to see votes because of that, rather than topic agreement.

Good job both sides.
Posted by wingnut2280 9 years ago
wingnut2280
I think the opening statement for PRO is sending the wrong message. Its not that we don't want anything to do with Mexico, we just have to protect ourselves from an evident problem.

The United States already spends hundreds of billions of dollars on aid for foreign nations. It is not our job to babysit these people. We are dealing with a HUGE deficit and I can't see why we all think we need to be out in the world helping everyone when we can't help ourselves. To think that we are to blame for illegals wanting to come here is ridiculous. It is Mexico's job to clean up their own country.
Posted by Miserlou 9 years ago
Miserlou
I second what Mike said; the only reason we have an immigration problem is because they can't make a living in their own country, and the United States is definitley capable of improving some of these conditions.

Illegal immigration is harmful to the immigrants as well as U.S. citizens: jobs are taken away because employers can hire immigrants cheap, and immigrants are hardly getting paid at all, certainly not enough for living expenses in the United States. If they came here legally I wouldn't see a problem, but they won't come here legally if they're unable too.
Posted by Mike418 9 years ago
Mike418
Why do we need a border fence between the United States and Mexico? The fact that American jobs are being taken by people who break the law by entering the United States illegally should not be overlooked. However instead of spending time and resources trying to keep people out of our country we should be looking at "WHY" people are trying to enter the United States illegally and leave their own country.
After traveling to Tijuana Mexico with my high school and working side by side with the poor along the border I can be the first to tell you that entering the United States in search of work is a last option for these people. In order to solve the illegal immigration problem action must be taken not in big walls or sensors but in relief and aid. Under the circumstances illegal immigrants face they cross the border so that their lives and the lives of their families may have a chance. There comes a time when for a moment we must not think of ourselves as Americans; we must consider ourselves first as people. As Americans we would never stand to see other Americans living under the exact same conditions many Mexican people face every day. Why is it so hard for us to take action against a problem which is literally in front of us?
The problem is not the Mexican people, it is their government and its corruption. Illegal immigration will not stop because of borders and walls. The basic human trait of searching for something better will not allow it. Once again I state my opinion that illegal immigration is wrong and should not be allowed but something must be done so that the Mexican people do not want to cross illegally into the Untied States. If we can help these people out of the poverty which has clearly engulfed them then the Untied State's problem of illegal immigration will diminish.
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