The Instigator
TheAwesomeRuler
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
rajun
Con (against)
Winning
8 Points

There are Multi Universes

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
rajun
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/13/2013 Category: Science
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,046 times Debate No: 36641
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (5)
Votes (2)

 

TheAwesomeRuler

Pro

1st round is for the acceptance of this debate
rajun

Con

I accept to debate against this topic. Pro needs to prove that they are there while I need to counter their existence...
Good luck!1
Debate Round No. 1
TheAwesomeRuler

Pro

Well okay lets start with the basics. I would be using the Ancient Texts as a great deal of help
Imagine we have a fabric of space, literally okay. We have black holes in these, you see lets take black holes as extreme depressions in this fabric.
They do lead up somewhere, as we know, all that "swallowed up matter" has been sent somewhere. It cannot be kept in the small compact area with an extreme high density or it will be like a supernova explosion(though that's how the black holes mostly form) SO there has to be a deposit ground of this material.

Also if you do not mind I would like to include Hindu Mythology. You see the Vedas has specified that there are different Lokas in this huge universe called an ocean where Vishnu Rests. Also this debate is not religious but if you see the information in the Vedas, they describe many massive scientific discoveries such as the aeroplanes(Vimanas) which was invented by Shivjar Bapuji Talpade.http://en.wikipedia.org... and http://oldphotosbombay.blogspot.in...
A bit more into Hindu Mythology, The Universe is said to have had been a bindu(a small spot in Sanskrit). This is now proved in The Big Bang Theory as the universe begun from a small atom packed with all the matter and it was extremely dense. The rest of the Hindu-Scientific Mythology would be explained in another debate which I am doing.

Back to where I was, if there is all that matter where does it go? Have you ever thought about an exactly virtually parallel universe as you see our universe is made up of matter and there has been a discovery of anti-matter. So it is theoretically possible for an exact opposite universe of ours to exist. Over 3000 years ago, the Indians knew that the earth was NOT in the center of the universe while the Europeans were in their dark ages. They thought that the earth was in the center of the universe and that the earth was the biggest thing in the sky. But the Indians knew about the galaxies. Now we know that galaxies exist and that there are many of them in space. So why cannot there be many universes just because we do not have the technology to find this out. This is my possible thesis for how is there is a possibility of multi universes.
rajun

Con

Thank you, Pro. for your views and arguments.

"They do lead up somewhere, as we know, all that "swallowed up matter" has been sent somewhere. It cannot be kept in the small compact area with an extreme high density or it will be like a supernova explosion(though that's how the black holes mostly form) SO there has to be a deposit ground of this material."

Is the concept of Black Holes clear here?(a) Black holes are not literal holes in Space. Black holes are actually dense round structures which have very, very high desity. As, Sir isaac Newton introduce and Albert Einstein and Sir Hubble proved that gravity increases with mass, This black holes contain such high desity and mass that they have a very strong gravitational force. This force is so high that even light cannot escape from its clutches. So, how come this black hole can transport things to some other place? Pro says that matter gets attracted to a black hole and stays there...This statement is vague. The Structure of a Black hole is divide into three parts...The outer event horizon,inner event horizon and singularity. think about Earth...Do the satellites around earth revolve around it or fall onto earth again? In a black hole, what happens is, once a heavenly body(suppose the sun) gets into the outer event horizon, It starts revolving around it instead of falling into it. Now, suppose(as pro may suggest) a star by some chance fell into the inner event horizon, it will get crunched and join the singularity and the black hole will get a little larger. How large? Not too much. See, a black hole is so crunched up in the singularity that it is no larger than your thumb! A star if by chance falls into the black hole, then it too will be crunched. This shows that it is a vague thought that black holes "swallow up matter" and need to deposit them in some other place.

(a)http://www.kidsastronomy.com...

" Also if you do not mind I would like to include Hindu Mythology. You see the Vedas has specified that there are different Lokas in this huge universe called an ocean where Vishnu Rests.A bit more into Hindu Mythology, The Universe is said to have had been a bindu(a small spot in Sanskrit). "

Hindu Mythology says that there are many Lokas in this universe and this religious books are never reliable sources! Maybe they refer something like aeroplanes but don't they refer to many other impossible things? It might be that stories of the Mahabharata or the Ramayana are true but they are filled with such exaggeretion that they never were,are and will be reliable sources. The Universe is said to have had been a bindu(a small spot in Sanskrit)? Please site the sources because all I know about this concept is that this is a philosophy of a south Indian philosopher which says that the Bindu is God(who is formless) and is the all knowing and our souls go to him and stay in peace...(b)

(b) http://www.speakingtree.in...


"Have you ever thought about an exactly virtually parallel universe as you see our universe is made up of matter and there has been a discovery of anti-matter. So it is theoretically possible for an exact opposite universe of ours to exist."

And how does the discovery of Anti-Matter show that multi universes are out there? Is the concept of Anti-matter clear here?(c) Anti-matter is made up of anti-sub atomic particles. Our terms make it sound as if they are things from "out of this universe" but these are things that have always been their but not found. Think about it, When the planet pluto was discovered, People thought that it was something "out of the universe" but is it? no. It is just that Pluto was found later. This things such as dark matter, higgs boson,anti-matter are also things in this universe that have always been there but just found recently.


(c) http://en.wikipedia.org...

"So why cannot there be many universes just because we do not have the technology to find this out. This is my possible thesis for how is there is a possibility of multi universes."

The possibility of multi-universe is a hypo-thesis and always will be. If thousands of big bangs are actually occuring in the infinite void called space...is it not obvious that one of these explosions should occur very near our universe and collide with us? Is it not obvious that the raw energy should destroy us??? There is a low possibility of multi-universes. And of-course we have powerful radars...isn't it obvious that the sheer energy of a big bang around us fluctuate this universe and all those gamma and radio rays reach our radars and create a big affect on the papers of those graphs? Those graphs which show the amount of fluctuating radio waves have always stayed normal with rare fluctuations because of Solar storms and supernova explosions...If there would have been some other universe sforming out there, it would have been a theory with proof by now and not a thesis.

My rebuttal and arguments prove that there is almost no possibility of multi-universes..let alone parallel universes.




Debate Round No. 2
TheAwesomeRuler

Pro

TheAwesomeRuler forfeited this round.
rajun

Con

that is bad....
Debate Round No. 3
TheAwesomeRuler

Pro

Sorry, forgot to post in round two, I will though make up for it.
Firstly I never mentioned that blackholes are just plain holes in the universe. Not like you'll be walking on the road and you fall in the ditch. Lol kinda funny actually.

"If thousands of big bangs are actually occuring in the infinite void called space...is it not obvious that one of these explosions should occur very near our universe and collide with us? Is it not obvious that the raw energy should destroy us??? "
Well, how do you know that one of them is occuring very near our universe? Unless you yourself have went and found one. And Collide with us? DO you think that this is a game of tag or rugby where the other universe would hit us. Dude we would be destroyed if two(or more) realities collide with each other. Let me give you a simple example, if there are two magnets on has a North-pole facing us and so does the other, they repel each other. Similarly when anti-matter and matter collide they annihilate each other. Thus there would be a certain amount of space in between them where nothing is there. Literally nothing, no energy, no matter, no sub atomic particles, nothing at all. Also your collision theory dosen't make sense, If a random spiral galaxy fuses together with an elliptical galaxy, even if it is say 100000000 light years near us, the energy would have had been weakend by then. Thus, if we are used to living in such conditions, how are we to feel it. Just like we live in the earth with a huge blanket of atmosphere which still dosent crush us?

"Please site the sources because all I know about this concept is that this is a philosophy of a south Indian philosopher which says that the Bindu is God(who is formless) and is the all knowing and our souls go to him and stay in peace."

Lol wtf are you talking about, what South Indian Philosopher? Have you not realised to date that Indians found out that the earth was round 3000 years before some european did(say COnepiorus) did. The Indians even knew of astronomy, they knew that there were 8 planets including Pluto(a Dwarf Planet). This was more than 5000 years ago. The earth we know of now is mainly Eurocentric. When the Brits arrived in India, they took all the gold and all other riches. The report from the Governor of India stated that when they arrived in India, there was no person who lived on the road, no beggers. The currency was gold. Etc.,Etc. The Indians now do not do much but we should appreciate and accept what the Indians in the ancient times had done for us. Also Einstien's Theory of Reliativity is found in The Puranas. In WW II many germans came to India to take the Ancient Texts to create what was going to be called an atom bomb. SO did Einstein come in India, to find another form of matter along with Satyendra Nath Bose. Though I may not have had read them already, I am not that much of a debater for the greatnest of Indians in the past. Also for you information a last piece of advice, the Bhramastra was just like an atom bomb. And there are many other scientific discoveries embeded into the Ancient Hindu Texts. Also the actual name is not Hindu is is Sanātana Dharma which means the Truth.

"This shows that it is a vague thought that black holes "swallow up matter" and need to deposit them in some other place. a star by some chance fell into the inner event horizon, it will get crunched and join the singularity and the black hole will get a little larger. How large? Not too much. See, a black hole is so crunched up in the singularity that it is no larger than your thumb."

You are seriously funny, I must admit. Well I agree that they do end up into singularity do they not? It is also true that it will thereby have a huge density. The thing is that there are also bigger blackholes out there and again never did I mention that they just fall into a ditch do they now? The blackhole in the center of our galaxy is required to give our galaxy its shape(spiral). And it will stay in this shape unless our galaxy collides with the Andreomean galaxy. When a blackhole "swallows" something then it DOES NOT grow in size. Each black hole has its limit of proprtionality. If a blackhole takes in more than its defined singularity, it will literally go into an explosion bigger than a supernova. This is how scientists have found traces of high level gamma rays entering our earth when we are nearer to the center of the milky way. It is also found that a blackhole could turn itself into a wormhole. It is that if it cannot posess the amount of matter and energy in itself it will reappear somewhere in the universe thus creating a link through which matter and energy would be able to come out. This allows balence in the blackhole for it to stabalise. This is quite rare though but it does occur.

Now time for my arguments


Well there are multiuniverse are explored when Bhrama visits Lord Krishna in Vrindawan. He takes all his friends to make them sleep for one whole year. In here when Lord Bhrama finds out that Lord Krishna has taken all the forms of the boys and nothing has changed He then goes to appologise to Him. In this Lord Krishna shows Him all the different Bhramas of the various Universes and that to show Him that He is not the only creator. This shows the very existence of Multi-Universes. So Rajun for all you know in the future they do find the Multi-Universes we are talking about. This may come to reality after many years but well till then this is something you can think about for your rebuttals.
TheAwesomeRuler
rajun

Con

Thank you for your rebuttal and arguments,

"And Collide with us? DO you think that this is a game of tag or rugby where the other universe would hit us. Dude we would be destroyed if two(or more) realities collide with each other. Let me give you a simple example, if there are two magnets on has a North-pole facing us and so does the other, they repel each other. Similarly when anti-matter and matter collide they annihilate each other. "

Yes, collide with us. Weakened energy? No such term exists. Pro, we coth agree that there is nothing between universes. Law of inertia. Energy doesn't end( I mean doesn't convert into) until an opposite force stops it. So, if there isn't anything between two universes, why is it that energy will be "weakened"? And Pro has dropped the argument that Anti-matter isn't actually an out of the universe thing. Anti-matter is there in this universe but is rare cause annhilation is common but not too much of a detectable from our location(a). Known as dark matter, today we have come to know there it is, anti-matter. So, is it not a fact that the energy from big bang will reach us and we will be able to detect it?

(a)http://www.universetoday.com...

"If a blackhole takes in more than its defined singularity, it will literally go into an explosion bigger than a supernova. This is how scientists have found traces of high level gamma rays entering our earth when we are nearer to the center of the milky way. "

And from which reliable source does such a theory come from? Maybe it is true(although just a thesis) that a black hole is present there in the middle of milky way, but has it exploded?Let me explain, The whole theory of black holes has many bugs and to fullfil such things, scientist are making more imaginary theories such as white holes or worm holes.(b) high level gamma rays? I do not know such an instance! What do gamma rays do? They kill cells. On, 12/12/12 we were near to the centre of the milky way. Is it that we died? Obviously not! Neither gamma nor radio waves come from that middle part of the milky way. Only some fruency disturbances are caught by our bored radars due to solar storms.

(b)http://www.physlink.com...

" Lol wtf are you talking about, what South Indian Philosopher?.In here when Lord Bhrama finds out that Lord Krishna has taken all the forms of the boys and nothing has changed He then goes to appologise to Him. In this Lord Krishna shows Him all the different Bhramas of the various Universes and that to show Him that He is not the only creator. "

The theory is from an Indian philosopher(c). Brahma and his brahmastra? Talk about Zues and his Lightning bolt. come on! All these ancient texts are not fact but fable! Even if some of them are true, such exagerration has filled them that they are a very unreliable source. Lines such as " The chola king had no sight, still he shot an arrow and a bird dropped, pierced through the eye" or " He swung his sword and the sea trembled and howled" clearly show the exaggeration. Maybe it is that India was advanced during those times and so were the Mayans and the Egyptians but that does not prove the existence of Multi-universes.

(c)http://thelegendgururavidassji.blogspot.in...

May the rebuttal is short but the argument of Pro was based on religious texts that are very unreliable and rebuttal to them was easy and also due to se bug, I had to write the arguments and post them twice.
Debate Round No. 4
TheAwesomeRuler

Pro

TheAwesomeRuler forfeited this round.
rajun

Con

Ok then...
Debate Round No. 5
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by rajun 3 years ago
rajun
ooops! many S/G faults! Nevermind! A bug made me post my argument twice! pissing me off! Duh!!!
Posted by TheAwesomeRuler 3 years ago
TheAwesomeRuler
Lol i am waiting for the voting time lol
Posted by rajun 3 years ago
rajun
oh come on man..admit defeat if it is that but do not keep the opponent waiting...that will give you the conduct points..//\\.
Posted by rajun 3 years ago
rajun
thanks man..be here when its voting time!
Posted by donald.keller 3 years ago
donald.keller
Great work Rajun.

I myself know a ton about Black holes... They are very simple actually. I couldn't believe he thought it was an actual hole.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 3 years ago
Ragnar
TheAwesomeRulerrajunTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: FF.
Vote Placed by justin.graves 3 years ago
justin.graves
TheAwesomeRulerrajunTied
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Reasons for voting decision: 1/2 FF. Pro did not rebuttal many of Con's arguments. So they stand.