The Instigator
Contradiction
Pro (for)
Winning
45 Points
The Contender
BangBang-Coconut
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

There are no compelling reasons for the state to legislate in favor of same-sex marriage

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/8/2011 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,157 times Debate No: 16354
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (4)
Votes (9)

 

Contradiction

Pro

The first round is strictly for the presentation of terms and acceptance.

Topic: There are no compelling reasons for the state to legislate in favor of same-sex marriage.

Same-sex marriage will be understood as the union of two individuals of the same gender in a legally recognized ceremony with all the benefits found in heterosexual marriage.

A compelling reason is defined in terms of strict scrutiny, as used by the Supreme Court of the United States.

Time: 3 days between posts. If either side needs extra time, he may ask his opponent to wait out his time.

Burden of Proof: Both sides share the BOP. Pro must show that there are no compelling reasons for the state to legislate in favor of same-sex marriage, and Con must show that there are.

Rounds:

1.Terms/acceptance
2. Opening Arguments
3. Rebuttals
4. Final rebuttals/conclusion

What This Debate is NOT Over:

1.This is NOT about whether homosexual acts are morally permissible.
2.This is NOT about what a religion understands marriage to be.
BangBang-Coconut

Con

I accept my opponent's terms!
Debate Round No. 1
Contradiction

Pro

Greetings, I would like to begin by thanking Hello-Orange for accepting this debate.

I will be defending the contention that there are no compelling reasons for the state to legislate in favor of same-sex marriage. This is because heterosexual marriage provides a framework in which both procreation and child-rearing can take place. The state has a vested interest in protecting this relationship because it is essential to both the production of virtuous citizens and the continuation of society. Because neither are intrinsic to same-sex relationships, the state should not recognize them as marriages. I will be defending the following argument, as formulated by philosopher Jim Spiegel:

1. Heterosexual union is the indispensable means by which humans come into existence and therefore has special social value (indeed, the greatest possible social value because it is the first precondition for society).

2. The indispensable means by which something of special social value can occur itself has special value.

3. What has special value to human society deserves special social recognition and sanction.

4. Civil ordinances which recognize gay marriage as comparable to heterosexual marriage constitute a rejection of the special value of heterosexual unions.

5. To deny the special social value of what has special social value is unjust.

6. Therefore, gay marriage is unjust. [1]

Heterosexual marriage provides a framework under which future citizens can be raised and produced due to the fact that heterosexual union (The joining of a sperm/egg) is possible under this type of relationship. It is for this reason that the state confers legal and economic benefits upon married couples, for it recognizes that these notions are crucial for the maintenance of a healthy society. Thus, since procreation and child-rearing are essential to the advancement of society, the state has a vested interest in protecting a stable relationship under which this can take place. The state, therefore, ought to give special recognition to heterosexual unions, for they function as a precondition to a flourishing society. Relationships which do not have procreation as their core do not deserve such recognition, for they are not foundational to society. The recognition of homosexual unions as marriages would therefore be unjustly denying the special social value of heterosexual unions.

Is Marriage About Love?

Same-sex marriage advocates usually view marriage as a relationship between two parties which is centered around love. But this fails to understand what marriage is and why it is regulated by the state. Why is the state in the business of regulating marriage to begin with? After all, the state doesn't regulate friendships or other nonmarital romantic relationships. It's a peculiar thing, considering upon entry into a marriage relationship, a couple finds themselves bound by obligiations which decidedly nonromantic in nature.

The very reason the state has an interest in regulating marriage is because it recognizes that marriage is essential to the production of citizens and therefore the continuation of society. The state does not regulate nonmarital romantic relationships precisely because it has no compelling reason to do so.

This is not mitigated by the fact that procreation is possible from outside a marital framework. The difference between a marriage and say, a boyfriend/girlfriend having sex is that the former is a contractural agreement to the welfare of both partners and any children that may arise as a result of the relationship. The state does not regard the latter as a marriage because there are no contractural obligations involved. Since traditional marriage provides the environment necessary for both the production and raising of the state's future citizens, it should be afforded protection under the law. The fact that heterosexual sex is logically distinguishable from marriage by no means dampens this argument.

The Antimiscegenation Analogy

Opposition to same-sex marriage is sometimes compared to opposition to interracial marriage. However, the analogy falsely assumes that there is no essential difference between race and gender.

While race is irrelevant to procreation, gender most certainly isn’t. Race is irrelevant to whether or not procreation is possible, hence the state is unjustified in passing antimiscegenation legislation. However, since gender is relevant to whether or not procreation is possible, the state is justified in limiting marriages to only between members of the opposite sex. Therefore, the state has a principled reason to exclude couples from entering into marital relationships on the basis of their gender.

Artificial Reproduction: IVF/Surrogacy

One response offered by SSM advocates to the procreation argument is that homosexual couples are able to reproduce through artificial means such as IVF or surrogacy.

However, this fails to adequately respond to the argument. Homosexual couples are not actually "reproducing" when they engage in artificial reproductive treatments -- rather, they are using donated eggs/sperm from a third party. As such, the child that results from these artificial means of reproduction is not actually that of the homosexual couple. Rather, he was produced by means of heterosexual union via a third party. So what we actually see here is a reaffirmation of the special value of heterosexual union, since artificial means of reproduction are inherently heterosexual in nature.

Moreover, if couples should be allowed marriage rights due to the fact that procreation is possible due to third party intervention, then one cannot object to the marriage of incestious couples, who can reproduce by artificial means.

Are Sterile Couples Excluded?

It may be objected that such reasoning prevents sterile heterosexual couples from marrying due to the fact that they are unable to procreate. But this objection fails to understand the argument. Marriage is not based on the ability of the individual couple to procreate, but on a type of relationship in which procreation is inherently possible to begin with. Males are meant for coupling with females, even if it does not result in procreation all of the time. By contrast, homosexual relationships are such that procreation is impossible in principle. Thus, such relationships cannot qualify as marriages. What matters is thus that an act is procreative in type, not whether it is procreative in effect.

Marriage is a Social Construction

If marriage is a social construction, then there cannot be said that there are rights associated with it. This actually undercuts the proponent's own argument. If my opponent affirms that homosexuals have a basic right to marry each other, then they cannot view marriage as a social construction. This is because social constructions have no normative structure to them, they are simply constructs that may be redefined at one's own whim. One therefore cannot be unjust in denying homosexuals the "right" to marry.

Opening the Floodgates

If we divorce marriage from procreation, then what nonarbitrary reason does one have to limit marriage to being between two parties? Why not one person who loves himself, or three cohabiating roommates who love each other and want insurance benefits, or a business partner and his client, or three men and two women? Why even think that marriage must involve consent or must be between persons? Bereft of a solid foundation on which to base marriage, there are no limits to who can be married. Clearly this is counterintuitive. This reductio ad absurdum illustrates the fact that marriage must be based on more than just love or similar feelings.

___________

Sources

1. http://wisdomandfollyblog.com...
BangBang-Coconut

Con

BangBang-Coconut forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Contradiction

Pro

My opponent has closed his account temporarily. I wish him the best in whatever he chooses to do.

Arguments extended.
BangBang-Coconut

Con

BangBang-Coconut forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Contradiction

Pro

Arguments extended.
BangBang-Coconut

Con

BangBang-Coconut forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by BangBang-Coconut 5 years ago
BangBang-Coconut
That's okay, take your time :3.
Posted by Contradiction 5 years ago
Contradiction
Thanks for accepting. I have my OP ready, but will delay posting it for a day or two because I have AP exams this week and don't want to find myself in the position of having to respond the day before an exam.
Posted by Contradiction 5 years ago
Contradiction
I wouldn't mind either way. :)
Posted by BangBang-Coconut 5 years ago
BangBang-Coconut
would you be okay with me accepting this debate as a devils' advocate?
Or do you only want someone who sincerely believes this to accept it.
9 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Vote Placed by Zarroette 2 years ago
Zarroette
ContradictionBangBang-CoconutTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: ff
Vote Placed by 16kadams 4 years ago
16kadams
ContradictionBangBang-CoconutTied
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Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by Maikuru 4 years ago
Maikuru
ContradictionBangBang-CoconutTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeits
Vote Placed by jewgirl 5 years ago
jewgirl
ContradictionBangBang-CoconutTied
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Reasons for voting decision: F.
Vote Placed by Dimmitri.C 5 years ago
Dimmitri.C
ContradictionBangBang-CoconutTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro wins as a result of argumentation. Con loses as a result of forfeiture.
Vote Placed by liljohnny818 5 years ago
liljohnny818
ContradictionBangBang-CoconutTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Damn. Can you start this debatre again? I thought Pro's arguments were really creative and I would love to see them debated
Vote Placed by kohai 5 years ago
kohai
ContradictionBangBang-CoconutTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit. Sad debate.
Vote Placed by Cliff.Stamp 5 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
ContradictionBangBang-CoconutTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Con, we barely knew ye.
Vote Placed by BruteApologia 5 years ago
BruteApologia
ContradictionBangBang-CoconutTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro won by forfeit (and by awesome arguments, if I may say so myself).