The Instigator
Ore_Ele
Con (against)
Winning
16 Points
The Contender
headphonegut
Pro (for)
Losing
2 Points

There are no negatives to moderate drinking

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Ore_Ele
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/4/2011 Category: Health
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,322 times Debate No: 16172
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (40)
Votes (4)

 

Ore_Ele

Con

The challenge was declined, even though it was said to be "scientific fact." If anyone else would like to defend Geo's comments, this is open to all.

This is a challenge based on comments said in this thread. [1]

For this debate, we will use the following definitions.

negatives - "negative medical effects" so this tosses out any social and financial consequences.

moderate drinking - "consumption of 14 alcoholic drinks per weekly, spread evenly throughout the week." This tosses out downing 14 beers on Friday night, while not drinking the rest of the week.

Alcoholic drink - "a drink which contains approximately 18 ml (or .6 fl oz) of ethanol."

A 4 oz glass of 14% wine would have .56 fl oz of ethanol (approximately 1 drink).
A 12 oz can of 5% beer would have .60 fl oz of ethanol.
A 1 1/2 oz shot of 80 proof spirit would have .60 fl oz of ethanol.

[1] http://www.debate.org...
headphonegut

Pro

I am going to assume that this round is for acceptance and I acknowledge all definitions my opponent has made and I hope it will be a lively hopefully informative debate.

cordially, HPG
Debate Round No. 1
Ore_Ele

Con

I was assuming that my opponent was going to let this expire, but since they continued the debate, I will aswell.

Moderate drinking, has many benefits, and health experts almost entirely agree that those benefits greatly out weigh the consequences of moderate drinking. However, for anyone to make a truely informed and accurate decision about drinking, it is very important to realize that there are still negatives to moderate drinking which one should consider before choosing that for their life style.

1) Moderate drinking, in many people, will increase their appetite [1]. This can lead to various health issues tied to over-eating if it is not recognized and accounted for. Also ethonal itself already have 5.5 cal per gram [2], so a single shot of 80 proof vodka has 96 calories. Moderate drinking can add over 1,300 calories a week, plus any additional food consumed which adds its own calories to that mix.

2) Stroke [3]. This is not one that many people expected to see, as a decrease of strokes are commonly associated with moderate drinking. However, it is important to know that not all strokes are the same. There are two kinds, those from blood clots, and those from bleeding. As alcohol decreases the risk of a stroke from a blood clot, it increases the risk of a stroke from bleeding. This is important to realize, especially if strokes run in your family. You really want to find out what kind of stoke you are genetically at risk for, so that you can take proper measures.

3) Any level of drinking can cause serious issues when mixed with medication. These effects can vary greatly depending on the type of medication you have to take. [3]

4) Birth defects are also linked to moderate drinking during pregnancy [3]. Though most common defect was stunted growth (the babies were found to be born smaller and shorter), increases in a veriety of defects was found from moderate drinking.

[1] http://www.steadyhealth.com...
[2] http://www.nutramed.com...
[3] http://alcoholism.about.com...
headphonegut

Pro

R1 - An increase in appetite can cause various health issues however it is the food that causes those issues not the drinking and an increase in appetite isn't necessarily a bad thing. Studies suggests that lower levels of alcohol consumption can reduce stress; promote conviviality and pleasant and carefree feelings; and decrease tension, anxiety, and self-consciousness. In the elderly, moderate drinking has been reported to stimulate appetite, promote regular bowel function, and improve mood. For those that are anorexic a very serious disease moderate drinking is actually good for them.

R2 - I assume you are talkin' about a hemorrhagic stroke I ask what men were affected the most like race?
80-85% of strokes are Ischemic while 15 -20% are hemorrhagic strokes so in fact drinking helps the majority and only affects the minority of strokes However their are many things that causes a person to be susceptible to a stroke

1.)High blood pressure - High blood pressure is the most important risk factor for stroke . In fact, stroke risk varies directly with blood pressure. Effective treatment of high blood pressure may be the reason that death rates for stroke have greatly decreased in recent years.
2.)Increasing age - The chance of having a stroke more than doubles for each decade of life after age 55.
3.)Prior stroke - The risk of stroke for someone who has already had one is many times that of a person who has not.
4.)Cigarette smoking - Cigarette smoking is an important risk factor for stroke . The nicotine and carbon monoxide in cigarette smoke damage the heart and blood vessels in many ways. The use of birth control pills combined with cigarette smoking greatly increases stroke risk.
5.)Male sex - Overall, men have about a 20 percent greater chance of stroke than women. Among people under age 65, the risk for men is even greater when compared to that of women.
Heredity (family history) and race - The chance of stroke is greater in people who have a family history of stroke. African Americans have a much higher risk of death and disability from a stroke than whites, in part because blacks have a greater incidence of high blood pressure.
6.)Diabetes mellitus - Diabetes is an independent risk factor for stroke and is strongly correlated with high blood pressure. While diabetes is treatable, having it still increases a person's risk of stroke.
7.)Carotid artery disease - The carotid arteries in your neck supply blood to your brain. A carotid artery damaged by atherosclerosis (a fatty buildup of plaque in the artery wall) may become blocked by a blood clot and cause a stroke.
8.)Heart disease - A diseased heart increases the risk of stroke. People with heart problems have greater than twice the risk of stroke as those without heart problems. Heart attack is also the major cause of death among survivors of stroke.
9.)Atrial fibrillation (the rapid, uncoordinated beating of the heart's upper chambers) raises the risk for embolic stroke.
10.)Transient ischemic attacks (TIA's) - TIA's are "mini strokes" that produce stroke-like symptoms but no lasting damage. They are strong predictors of stroke. A person who's had one or more TIA's is almost 10 times more likely to have a stroke than someone of the same age and sex who hasn't.
11.)High red blood cell count - An increase in the red blood cell count is a risk factor for stroke. Excess red blood cells thicken the blood and make clots more likely to form.
12.)Cerebral Aneurysms- Aneurysms are blood-filled pouches that balloon out from weak spots in the artery wall. They're often caused or aggravated by high blood pressure but can be congenital. Aneurysms aren't always dangerous, but if one bursts in the brain, a hemorrhagic stroke results. More common cause of stroke in those under 40 years.
13.)Drug abuse - Intravenous drug users are at risk of stroke from cerebral embolisms . Cocaine use has been closely related to strokes and heart attacks. Some have been fatal even in first-time cocaine users.

-The Heart-
Moderate drinking more studies have found reduces your risk for heart disease. "The study's authors found that drinking about 30 grams of alcohol per day, or about 2 to 3 standard-size drinks, decreased women's risk of developing heart disease by 42 percent and decreased men's risk by 31 percent. The researchers noted the same risk reduction when they split the participants into three groups: 50 years old and younger, 50 to 60 years old and 60 or older."

Also Data from other observational studies shore up these findings: a 10-year study of French and Irish men found that regular drinkers had a significantly lower risk of heart disease than nondrinkers or binge drinkers. Again, the key is moderation. Depression rates go up for both binge and nondrinkers, who have shorter lifespans than their moderately drinking counterpart

R3 - The idea that one mixes their medication with their drinks is probably not indicative of someone who drinks moderately. You have not showed that their is a link that those who drink moderately also mix their medication with their drinks.

R4 - The idea that women who drink during pregnancy probably don't understand the effects of alcohol on a baby. Furthermore moderate drinking is not good during pregnancy sure it helps the mother but the mother is giving nutrients to her baby and even when drinking moderately the baby is a whole different specimen so the baby cannot be considered a moderate drinker the size to intake is way off.

thank you.
Debate Round No. 2
Ore_Ele

Con

My opponent states, "...15 -20% are hemorrhagic strokes so in fact drinking helps the majority and only affects the minority of strokes..." I'll remind that this debate is not about the effects of drinking in whole or on average, but just to dispell the myth that there are no negatives to drinking. The fact that I pointed out that moderate drinking raises the risk of a particular type of stroke and my opponent has not been able to refute that claim, only adds to the fact.

In regards to the other factors which contribute to the risk of stroke, those don't alter the fact that moderate drinking is, in fact, a contributor. The only arguments that could be attempted to be made would be that either moderate drinking does not increase the risk of a bleeding stroke (hemorrhagic), or that the increase of that kind of stroke is not a "negative" trait.

For the other arguments regarding mixing with medication and while pregnant, I was originally going off of a semantic argument, however, I will drop those. Even though the term "moderate" only refers to quantity of alcohol consumed (and the definition agreed has no baring on the state that the person is in, i.e. doesn't adjust that number based on medication, size, age, or pregnancy), I will agree that the drinking of any alcohol while on medication, without the concent of a doctor, is indeed not "moderate" and so not applicable to this debate. Same applies with pregnant, or those other factors of age and size.

I will assume that my opponent accepts the removal of this semantic loophole. However, if my opponent does not, he only need say so.

I will now pass to my opponent.
headphonegut

Pro

My opponent concedes to every other argument except the one about the hemorrhagic stroke saying the moderate drinking has a bad effect (trait) on people (the 15-20% ) I say it is a bad effect for the people that it happens to and let's keep in mind that the moderate drinking is only a contributor not an actual cause; however I say that when weighing the risks of this against a extended life for those haven't started to drink I would say start drinking statistically speaking they should be fine and in reality they should be fine as well.

While definition agreed has no baring on the state that person is in the pregnant women would be moderately drinking however the baby would not be because it's size is to small "moderate" it would be more like excessive drinking. The one with the medication would be moderate drinking the bad effect would be the medicine not the drinking. Size, age, and gender actually does matter.

thank you
Cordially, HPG
Debate Round No. 3
Ore_Ele

Con

"I say it is a bad effect for the people that it happens to..."

I believe that is an admission of the end of this debate. There are negatives to moderate drinking. It does increase your risks to some things. While it is completely agreed that it also decreases your risks to many things too, and that all in all, it is ultimately more benefitial to the average person than heavy drinking, or abstaining from alcohol all together.

But that was not the reasoning for this debate. This was for if there are ANY negatives at all, not where the average lies.

I will go ahead and allow my opponent to wray up his final summary, and request that he put his souce for his R2 into the last round so that it can be counted.

Thank you,
headphonegut

Pro

Thanks for taking it totally out of context.

It's a bad effect for people that the stroke happens to however you have no proof that moderate drinking caused the stroke to happen you have not presented any proof that moderate drinking is bad for the average person.

For their to be negatives to moderate drinking you have to prove that moderate drinking is the only cause to the effect which you have not done.
Debate Round No. 4
40 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by headphonegut 5 years ago
headphonegut
thank you lol
Posted by Cliff.Stamp 5 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
Give respect to Pro for not turning this into a semantic about a triple negative.
Posted by headphonegut 5 years ago
headphonegut
BOOM BURNED BIOTCH lulz
Posted by Ore_Ele 5 years ago
Ore_Ele
Good Job Sieben. You've shown an amazing ability to read, like in the comment section, such as the 3rd comment, where I said that no one should take this. And that basically, this was not to be an open challenge, but merely to bring a claim to light that someone made but didn't want to defend it.
Posted by headphonegut 5 years ago
headphonegut
Lol did you just subtlely insult me and sarcastically insult him? NOICE
Posted by Sieben 5 years ago
Sieben
Good job OreEle! You beat a 16 year old on a debate where you knew in advance you had incontrovertible evidence you were right! All you had to do was paraphrase your sources in round... how difficult.
Posted by Ore_Ele 5 years ago
Ore_Ele
lol, you still forgot your source for the previous round.
Posted by Cliff.Stamp 5 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
See, he is way nicer than I am.
Posted by headphonegut 5 years ago
headphonegut
I always get confused by the resolution when I read it lol.
Posted by headphonegut 5 years ago
headphonegut
right
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by detachment345 5 years ago
detachment345
Ore_EleheadphonegutTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: con showed that there are several negatives to drinking and cited sources
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 5 years ago
RoyLatham
Ore_EleheadphonegutTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Yeah, and you could drown in the beer or break the bottle and cut yourself. The "no negatives" is virtually impossible to defeat, but Pro knew what he was getting into.
Vote Placed by Cliff.Stamp 5 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
Ore_EleheadphonegutTied
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Total points awarded:32 
Reasons for voting decision: `I believe that is an admission of the end of this debate.`` - yes, but decent Con 3:2
Vote Placed by XimenBao 5 years ago
XimenBao
Ore_EleheadphonegutTied
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: The only way to win this debate would have been some sort of semantic trickery or clever re-framing of negatives. I don't think Pro saw the impossible bar before he took the debate.