The Instigator
Joel_Asher
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points
The Contender
beem0r
Con (against)
Winning
21 Points

There are so many views in the world. so i have a couple of qustions. can views be competitive?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/14/2008 Category: Society
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 910 times Debate No: 1778
Debate Rounds (4)
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Votes (8)

 

Joel_Asher

Pro

I feel that views can be competitive. You can look at the fact that some people see the world in different ways and this determines how one lives their own lives. Also people with their own beliefs are stronger and tougher than those who do not have their own rules to follow. So if someone agrees with me that views can be competitive then by all means lets debate and you can throw out a few of your own. the two I would like to compete with first is pessimist and optimist. My view is optimist will always over rule on pessimist due to the fact that they have much more to look forward to. That is just the opening statement. I have got a lot more in my stash.
beem0r

Con

For anyone who's confused, the actual topic of the debate is "Which is better/more likely to succeed, pessimism or optimism?"
My opponent is defending the side of optimism, so I shall take the other corner.

First, in reply to my opponent's original question. I'm fairly certain there's little disagreement that views can compete. To me, it's just like another form of natural selection. Those with the most successful views live on, reproduce more, and their views live on with them and theirs.

Now, on to the debate my opponent wishes to have: Optimism vs. Pessimism.

As an opening statement, my opponent has given only one statement, in an attempt to not show his hand too soon.

His claim is as follows: optimism is better than pessimism because optimists have so much more to look forward to.

In response to this, I assert that pessimists have just as much to look forward to. They simply don't assume too hastily that it's something good they're looking forward to. This is wise, and it makes pessimists much less likely to drown in disappointment. While neither pessimists nor optimists are necessarily right about their respective futures, pessimists are more likely to be pleasantly surprised when things are going well and less likely to be disappointed when they don't go so well.
Pessimists are prepared for the worst, so to speak.

Open up your bag of tricks and let's see what's inside.
Debate Round No. 1
Joel_Asher

Pro

Alright, I've been waiting. You say that pessimist are always more prepared for the worst. Yet what is the point of living in the worst? to lessen the pain of disappointment? So it is basically saying they are not strong enough to deal with the truth. Yet optimist, they are hopeful and when the disappointment does come that hope extends (annoyingly to the pessimist) into the hope they have for that disappointment to turn better into their favor. I mean take a look at the fact that life is full of disappointment, then we have two types of people walking through. One with a smile and a happy demeanor and the other is always looking over their back paranoid about what is about to hit them next. It is true, the pessimist can protect themselves from pain but the optimist uses it to strengthen their resolve and enjoy the things that work for them that much better. This way it can be more than just a pleasnt surprise but it will be something truely appreciated.
beem0r

Con

>>You say that pessimist are always more prepared for the worst. Yet what is the point of living in the worst?<<

Their lives are no better or worse than those of optimists. What is different is what they expect in the future, not how they view the present. A pessimist is fully capable of enjoying the present, and often derives more pleasure from the same good situation. An analogy:

My stepbrother recently bought an huge plasma TV. It's HD, so the picture quality is great. However, it has raised his expectations for TV quality. He no longer enjoys normal TV as much, since his expectations are not being met.
The same way we don't like black and white TV shows anymore.
The same way we don't play ATARI games anymore.
Since we have higher standards than ATARI or black and white TV can fulfill, we no longer enjoy them as much.

To be optimistic is to have expectations that are quite high.
To be pessimistic is to have expectations that are quite low.

A pessimist is therefore much more satisfied. Satisfied in the way a gamer from 20 years ago would be satisfied with today's videogames. That's obviously an extreme analogy, but I think it makes my point rather clear. With lower expectations, a person is overall much more content. People are not happy when they don't get their expectations met. It's much more likely that an optimist will not have his expectations met than a pessimist.

>>to lessen the pain of disappointment?<<

Yes, disappointment is the other side of the coin. An optimist is disappointed often, since life doesn't always go so swell. A pessimist is rarely disappointed, since he never expected it to.

>>So it is basically saying they are not strong enough to deal with the truth.<<

An optimist is no more facing the truth than a pessimist. An optimist assumes everything will be dandy, a pessimist assumes everything will be not-so-dandy. Most of us are somewhere in between, but it's favorable to lean towards pessimism.

>>Yet optimist, they are hopeful and when the disappointment does come that hope extends (annoyingly to the pessimist) into the hope they have for that disappointment to turn better into their favor.<<

They remain hopeful, yes, but they do not remain happy. They struggle through, thinking that things have to get better sometime soon. There is nothing better about this than struggling through, thinking that things will never get better. What if things don't get better? The optimist is left continually unsatisfied, where as the pessimist is much more satisfied.

If you had to go back to a much harder time (a thousand years ago, let's say), you'd hate it. However, they don't hate it, since it meets their 'low' standards. Pessimists are just that, people with 'low' standards. Like the people living a thousand years ago, they are content living lives that aren't totally sweet.
That is not to say that they are any less likely to live totally sweet lives, but they will not be dissatisfied when they don't (most people don't).

>>I mean take a look at the fact that life is full of disappointment, then we have two types of people walking through. One with a smile and a happy demeanor and the other is always looking over their back paranoid about what is about to hit them next.<<

No no no. No one is happy about disappointment. An optimist is not one who finds happiness in all things, even grim things.
Optimism: A tendency to expect the best possible outcome or dwell on the most hopeful aspects of a situation.
Source: American heritage dictionary
An optimist is no better equipped to handle situations than a pessimist. An optimist only has higher expectations. A better outlook for the future.

>>It is true, the pessimist can protect themselves from pain but the optimist uses it to strengthen their resolve and enjoy the things that work for them that much better. This way it can be more than just a pleasnt surprise but it will be something truely appreciated.<<

But they still have to deal with that pain. The negative impacts of that outweigh the gain from the strength of dealing with the pain. Also, I doubt getting an F in biology would make an optimist enjoy anything any more than before failing. The optimist would be crushed, while the pessimist would not. I don't see how the optimist would truly appreciate such a thing. Perhaps my opponent can explain this.

Also, to add a new point, a pessimist is less likely to commit crime, since he will assume he will get caught. An optimist, on the other hand, will assume he won't get caught, and therefore will be much more likely to commit said crime.
Debate Round No. 2
Joel_Asher

Pro

Well that cant be the case if there are two sides to every coin. Why would the pessimist commit the crime, because this pessimist has nothing to look forward to in life that is any better than what is in jail. But the optimist will see the benifits of every situatuion. lets take the f in school and the optimist finds what would be so good about getting and f. It could mean that he or she has seen the limits as to what they could do and now can work harder from that point on to do better next. the faith they have can carry them with good spirits. But i understand what you are saying. But if you notice that gamer from 20 years ago hates the games of today because they are too much or too complicated and they cant handle them. the people a thousand years ago could not imagine this type of future, when they get here it would be the same as the gamer from twenty years ago. this is why these people would see the advantages of being in a place of so much space and freedom. All i am saying is that the optimist does not have too high of expectations but prefers the best out of every situations. looks forward to the better of every situation. The optimist can only see the glass as half full and not half empty. so why would they let disappointment effect them and their standing or beliefs? if they let themselves get disappointed then they would not be an optimist at all. Lets keep this strictly no hazy lines between optimism and pessimism. but i still am enjoying myself.
beem0r

Con

A pessimist, as I've stated before, does not necessarily enjoy life any less than an optimist. They simply have different views of the future.

You bring up a good point about the crime thing, so I'll retract my point that optimists are more likely to commit crime.

Yes, the optimist might just assume he'll do better than an F next time, but it won't make him any more capable of doing so, nor will it make it any easier dealing with the F.

Also, there are very few gamers from the Atari age that hate what the current age has to offer. True, there are probably a few. I for one know one guy who thinks 2-D games are almost always better than 3-D games. However, this is only because he's an idiot. He's either 19 or 20 years old, so I don't quite understand. I know plenty of 28+ year old gamers who love the current age. Plenty as in like, 5 or 6. I don't, however, know any gamers (besides that one guy) who think old-school games were better than current games.

>>All i am saying is that the optimist does not have too high of expectations but prefers the best out of every situations.<<

Everyone prefers the best. The optimist just thinks he's going to get it. The pessimist does not.

>>The optimist can only see the glass as half full and not half empty. so why would they let disappointment effect them and their standing or beliefs?<<

Because they rarely get what they expect out of life. Life isn't always dandy, and going around thinking it always it is bound to cause disappointment. Life not meeting your expectations is the main cause of disappointment, and optimists have this in abundance.

>>if they let themselves get disappointed then they would not be an optimist at all.<<

Explain for me why, please. Are you assuming that everyone is focusing on their future, and not the present? This would explain why you think the pessimist would never enjoy life and the optimist would always be happy, but it contradicts a fairly well-known fact. People care about their current situation. Almost always they care about it far more than they care about the future they assume for themselves.

You're always talking about people 'looking forward' to this and that, but that's not where people normally look, optimist or pessimist. People look right where they're standing.

Back to you.
Debate Round No. 3
Joel_Asher

Pro

The reason I say looking forward to is because that is the idea of optimism and pessimism. Each one tries to predict or has hopes for their next situation. I say optimism is better because who likes to live in disappointment or expecting there of? All pessimist try and do is lessen the pain of that which optimist will bear it and try harder for the better outcome. That is why it is that an optimist will always be more capable of getting that c the next time and the b+ the time after that. Because they would be willing to try harder with hopes of better chances as a pessimist will constantly say it is impossible for them to get a better grade because they just cant which leaves their ability and standing right where it is then and there. Even if pessimist can enjoy life they will always be one step behind an optimist when they are looking for the worst possible outcome. Yes optimist might not get exactly what they want that time or so, but at the same time the disappointments that could effect them starts to disappear over time because they get better and better at what they do. It is just like when someone gets a major in college and all their thoughts and actions reflect what their career is going to be. The classes they choose shows their interest and shows what will come in the fututre. If someone who wants nothing but happiness, and constantly sticks to it without giving up or giving in, eventually things start to change and bad situations occur less and less as they learn to avoid that. When someone goes looking for a fight, eventually they will find one. When someone goes looking for money, it will eventually be found. When someone looks for the next disappointment in life it will be found but when you are not looking for disappointments, then even if they show themselves it will be a lot less than it would for a pessimist. This is why I find it strange that you keep saying optimist are more disappointed with life than pessimist because like i said before if that were the case then the roles would be switched and the pessimist would the the optimist and the optimist would be the pessimist.
beem0r

Con

I'm going to explain this as clearly as possible. My opponent's argument is largely based off optimists enjoying their lives more, working harder to reach their goals, seek happiness to a higher extent, and are any more capable or likely to get better at what they do. This has no basis in reality.

I said it before, but most people dwell on the present, not on the future. While optimists might have more hopeful predictions, this does not make their lives any more satisfying. What's satisfying is actually HAVING good things happen to you, which pessimists are no worse equipped to do than optimists.
Thinking that things will end up better does not make it so. It most certainly won't make people try harder at what they do.
Also, it's ridiculous to assert that optimists live in pursuit of happiness while pessimists do not. Pessimists simply do not assume that they will acheive this goal, whereas optimists do.

Neither do pessimists 'look for bad situations.' They simply assume that bad situations will come. This does not serve for any negative purpose - it only lowers the person's expectation of life. Those with lower expectations are generally happier, since there's much less room for disappointment.

Con out.
Debate Round No. 4
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