The Instigator
tahir.imanov
Pro (for)
Winning
7 Points
The Contender
Debatefan
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

There doesn't exist a religion that believes in lying to promote it's believes, except Christianity.

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
tahir.imanov
Voting Style: Open Point System: Select Winner
Started: 6/20/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 820 times Debate No: 56929
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (20)
Votes (1)

 

tahir.imanov

Pro

  • First round is for acceptance.

  • Sources must be cited.

  • There must be proof from scripture, and examples from real life.
Debatefan

Con

I accept this debate, (taking the side that Christianity does not promote lying in order to promote it's beliefs), and look forward to it.
Debate Round No. 1
tahir.imanov

Pro

First, lets define some terms. [1]
  1. Lie :
    1. (noun)
      1. an intentionally false statement. Synonyms : untruth, falsehood, fabrication, deception, falsity;
      2. used with reference to a situation involving deception or founded on a mistaken impression.
    1. (verb)
      1. tell a lie or lies.
      2. (of a thing) present a false impression.
  2. Promote : (verb)
    1. support or actively encourage (a cause, venture, etc.); further the progress of.
    2. give publicity to (a product, organization, or venture) so as to increase sales or public awareness.

Here, it means that Christianity believes one can lie, make (intentional) false statements, fabrications, can deceive or be untruthful in order to promote it, or encourage other people to follow it. Basically, ends justify means.

First question, is there scriptural evidence for it? We cannot go to OT [2], because Christians may suggest, that they don't follow it, but they follow Jesus. So we will examine NT.

1Cor9:19-23 - "Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings." [3]

Phil1:18 - "But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice." [4]

Rom3:5-6 - "But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world?" [5]

These are evidences from scripture, although there are others, but I think these is enough. 1 Corinthians 9 says "by all possible means" which means you can do whatever necessary (lie, cheat, kill, murder, rape, rape little boys, massacre towns, crusades, drop bombs, kill civilians, drones) to promote the message of Christianity. Also Philippians says, motives are irrelevant, you can be a preacher, just to collect money on Sunday morning and have strip party in evening. (That would be fun.)

And Romans says you can do unrighteousness things, it is a combination and culmination of verses from Corinthians and Philippians.

Are there examples? Yes, there are. Catholic priests molest little boys, evangelical preachers who were found with prostitutes (they were preaching in sexy way). And most of preachers who involved in Apologetics are just lying in every 2-words (that is little bit exaggeration).

Here is the one example: /Watch Youtube Video/ - https://www.youtube.com...

[1] - Google Search.

[2] - OT : Old Testament; NT - New Testament.

[3] - http://www.biblegateway.com...

[4] - http://www.biblegateway.com...

[5] - http://www.biblegateway.com...

Debatefan

Con

Debatefan forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
tahir.imanov

Pro

Waiting for Con's argument..........
Debatefan

Con

Debatefan forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
tahir.imanov

Pro

Waiting for Con's argument..........
Debatefan

Con

Debatefan forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
20 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by tahir.imanov 2 years ago
tahir.imanov
@Artur - I looked for Islamic literature on these issue(s). But I couldn't find English translation. The basic definition of it would be, Hiding believes from unbelievers and polytheists in order to protect property and lives, if there is an unavoidable danger.
Also, "taqiyya" against believer(s) is considered shirk, by Jafer-i Sadiq (ra).
Generally two options are recommended, either speak the truth or keep silent.
Posted by tahir.imanov 2 years ago
tahir.imanov
I can understand it. There is a difference between lying in order to promote religion, and e lies which are permissible.
When your life in danger, you can lie (it is an optional choice). It is taqiyya (actually there are other options also, I will send link via message). It has nothing to do with promoting religion.
If you want to make peace or reconcile couple, you can lie. You can lie also in court (if you are defendant, witnesses can't lie) if it will not hurt anyone. (Pledging not guilty, while you are guilty.)
Now, we cannot tell lie about prophet, because he said - "Whoever tells a lie against me (intentionally) then (surely) let him occupy, his seat in HellW22;fire." Bukhari1:107-110. And you can read Quran, for more information. Just download English translation and search for a "lie".
Posted by Artur 2 years ago
Artur
What about taqiyya of islam? (I am asking because I do not know, not because I want to claim: Islam supports lying) as far as I read about it: to defend your faith you can lie, not in a debate or dialogue but when under force, for example: in middle ages in spain, christians were killing jews and muslims, in order to survive a muslim is allowed to say that he is not muslim. It means, a muslim can lie in case he is under fire, under treat due to his faith if he may be forced becuase of his religion. Can we say: Islam promotes lying to promote its belief?
Posted by tahir.imanov 2 years ago
tahir.imanov
@Miley - What does terrorism has to do with topic. Should I start counting Christian terrorists?! Be honest. And I want you to show me scriptural evidence about 72 virgins (in case you need help, click this link ). There is no word infidel in Quran. The word itself was used by barbarians for Muslims to justify crusades and Spanish inquisition. At least first study the etymology of the word. I assume by Catholic you mean people who has fun with little boys. And I assume you haven't read my argument. If you want we can have debate on this issue (whether Christianity believes in lying to promote it's believes or not).
Well, truth hurts.
Posted by WileyC1949 2 years ago
WileyC1949
Oh, and question.... Will the Muslim terrorists who have been promised the 72 virgins in heaven for blowing themselves and other people up actually receive them? Or where they lying? Islam claims to be a religion of "peace" ... but that is only towards other Muslims. Everyone else is the infidel and can be killed.
Posted by WileyC1949 2 years ago
WileyC1949
I have just run a search in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. http://www.usccb.org...

There is not one reference to "lying" or "telling a lie". It is therefore evident that the Catholic Church does not "promote" lying. The Catholic Church represents 51% of all Christian. As a result I have refuted you statement that Christianity promotes lying.
Posted by tahir.imanov 2 years ago
tahir.imanov
I can suggest two ways.
1. Examine all religions.
2. Using Random Sampling, Sample 10 different religions except Christianity or sects of Christianity. But try to sample religions such as one wouldn't be sect of other or relative religion to other. And analyze them. If none of them promotes ..... then my statement is true with high probability. You can resize the sample in order get high certainty. You can use computer modelling.
Posted by Artur 2 years ago
Artur
Resolution can be refuted in two ways: 1. To refute the charges against christianity. 2. To show one more religion which allows or supports to lie in order to get converts.

Now, I have question to PRO: you claim or assert that "There doesn't exist a religion that believes in lying to promote it's believes, except Christianity." how can I know that you are true? How can I know that there really is no religion which promotes lying other than christianity? How can you prove this?
P.s: you can not ask me to refute it or to show because I am not syaing "Pro you are wrong here, there is a religion which does it" I am not against this sentence, I am not saying you are wrong nor you are right, I just want to know whether you are true or not.
Posted by tahir.imanov 2 years ago
tahir.imanov
Not, if Con shows that Christianity doesn't promote lying. ANd I already showed that it does. So wait for Con's argument.
Posted by WileyC1949 2 years ago
WileyC1949
As I said your question itself is a lie because it assumes as factual that Christianity lies. That is akin to me asking you "Have you stopped beating up your mother yet?" There is no way to answer the question therefore the question is itself a lie.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
lannan13
tahir.imanovDebatefan
Who won the debate:Vote Checkmark-
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture.