There is Eternal Son ( Pro) vs. there's No Eternal Son (Con)
Debate Rounds (5)
I, the Pro, shall prove logically and coherently from the christian scriptures that the second person of the Trinity is the eternal Son of the Father via eternal generation.
On the otherhand, Con shall disprove the eternal sonship via eternal generation as unscriptural and illogical.
Eternal generation only denotes " timeless birth" or as the scripture says "born before creation".
The Word was birthed by God before creation according to Psalm 110:3 LXX,Proverbs 8:25-1 Cor 1:24, Col. 1:15-17, Rom. 1:4-Heb. 1:5 and John 1:1,14,18;5:26.
Meaning of statement:
This is an anthropomorphism and the genetic metaphor is used. That is, one who is conceived and birthed by someone is "of same nature" with that someone.So, with regards to the Logos, he is "of same nature" with God because he was "in" and "birthed" by God. The birth happened before creation of time and hence, it is a timeless birth.
What means he has always existed.
but this is a paradox because being a son means you father is older than you and if you are eternal it means you have always existed,in science its a paradox because there isnt anething etarnal,because time is infinit it has a start but will never end.
in christianity time is eternal.god exist and has always existed.but even if time is eternal a son muss still be younger than his father.what is impossibell
It is clear that my opponent is confused with the Biblical presentation of the Sonship of the eternal Word. So, let me elucidate further:
The Apostles received a revelation about the existence of God as he is in terms of anthropomorphism because God is a transcended being.
Hence, the eternal sonship of the Son via eternal generation is a picture out from human language which is used for us to know the ineffable deity.
My opponent should understand the basic human denotation we have concerning genetics because this is the metaphor used by the Apostles themselves.
Genetics is a sub-field in biological science wherein the progenitor always passed on traits to its offspring. In other words, like begets like.
A human parent begets a human offspring. In this simple
reality, we know that it means a Father/mother is equal to their child/son/daughter in nature.
In Christianity, the Wisdom & Power per se of the Father is his very own Son.The Word ( Greek: Logos) is the only offspring who is God as to his nature. John 1:18
It is important also to know that it is possible to be a created son without being born ( e.g. Adam) and to be a birthed son without being created (e.g. the Word).
To be born is different from to be created. Let me explain, to be born merely means to come out from within somebody as preexisting while to be created means to come into existence from the first time.
A Human son is created first via conception and then is birthed after 9 months. On the other hand, the Wisdom,Power and Word of God doesn't need to be created so as to be born because he is already existing eternally within God and only needs to be born.
Therefore, it is logically possible that there's an eternal Son that has no beginning.
As I said in Round #1 and #2, it is a metaphor used to explicate the transcended deity to humans like us.
"The Word was born of God before time began means there is a Son who is of same nature with the Father"
Within our time realm, one who is born is birthed at an exact time (e.g. 9:30 pm- Friday).But the metaphor of "birth" of the Word only denotes his "sameness in nature" with God as the Apostles had adopted from basic and obvious law in human genetics ( i.e. like begets like).
Humans birthed their offspring in time. On the other hand, God is not in time.God is residing in a timeless realm.But this is not significant in the doctrine of eternal sonship via eternal generation because again, the "birth" refers to homoousiosness (i.e. sameness in nature) of the Father and the Son regardless of time or eternity for timelessness and eternalness is already encapsulated within the one nature which the two possess.
In a nutshell, my opponent should not take the "birth" literally but metaphorically. The Word always exists. He was "born" of God and this ONLY means that he is a " Son" who is " same in nature" with the Father. Hence, God did not became a Father but is eternally a Father and that the Word did not became a Son but is eternally a Son.
sources:genesis 1(for the christians) and for the scientist the possibility for an eternal son isnt even a possibility
My opponent argues that the Son of God was not the Creator but according to the Christian Bible, the Father created everything through the Son:
John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him( the Word/the Son) all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Proverbs 8:22 LXX, 1 Cor. 1:24 The Lord appointed me( the Wisdom/the Son) as the source of his work, before his
works of old
Psalm 33:6 Through the Word he created the heavens
Revelation 3:14 The Son is "The source of God's creation".
Colossians 1:16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him( the Son) and for him.
Hebrews 1:1-2 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through ( the Son) whom also he( God) made the universe.
Con said: for the scientist the possibility for an eternal son isnt even a possibility
My opponent do not realized that science also can't explain how possible for God to become an eternal Father.
My opponent appeals to the Old Testament Book of Genesis for asserting that it is impossible for God to create through his Son when in fact, the one God who spoke in Genesis 1:26-27 speaks to other coeval and consubstantial persons like him.
Let US make man in OUR Image, after OUR Likeness and God created man in his own image, mala and female he created them. ( Genesis 1:26-27).
The text is explicit. There's no angel involve in creation but only God.
This co-subsistence he is with in the creation is revealed to be the Son and the Holy Spirit in the New Testament:
Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Unless my opponent rejects the Christian Scriptures as inspried and non-contradictory, he cannot deem this as impossible given that the Scriptures has its own themes in a peculiar message: the Gospel.
1 Peter 1:2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
leandro.sanchez forfeited this round.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by kbub 2 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Excellent debating. I'm glad to see that both sides filled almost all of the rounds. I found that Pro successfully refuted all of Con's points and provided an excellent offense. Con, in the future I might recommend that you try bringing up several arguments at once. You had plenty of room to do so. Also, you arguments kept changing through the debate. Try to defend old arguments as well as introduce new arguments. Also, your spelling and grammar and punctuation could have benefited from additional editing.
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