The Instigator
Ozymandias_King_of_Kings
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Mikal
Con (against)
Winning
10 Points

There is Nothing Wrong With Pornography

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Mikal
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/10/2013 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,862 times Debate No: 37560
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (22)
Votes (4)

 

Ozymandias_King_of_Kings

Pro

Pornography seems to be something that is taboo and out of the subject in any homes in America. It is treated like filth, trash, and exploitative. However I stand before you today to try and disprove some preconceived ideas about why pornography is bad.

This will be a three round debate following these guidelines;

Round 1: Opening Statements, Main Argument is Presented.
Round 2: Debating, Argue against the statements presented.
Round 3: Closing, Debate final points, bring it all together in a closing argument.

In my opening argument I will take three of the most common arguments against pornography and hope to dismantle them and show the contender and the viewers the facade of these contentions.

#1: Pornography is Addictive and Life-Controlling.
This is a common argument and I can tell you from experience that it is a simple one to put away. I can tell you that from experience that pornography usage never for me has gone over short spans of time and has never taken over my social, family, or schoolwork. It is only used when I have downtime and simply want to feel pleasure for a short amount of time. I have never felt one iota that it was controlling my life in any way at all. And most people I know who watch pornography are completely normal people who have very active lives socially and otherwise.

#2: Pornography Distances You From God.
I am an atheist, so this argument in itself does not apply to me, and even if somebody is a true believer, nowhere in the bible is pornography criticized or ever spoken about. This argument should be irrelevant as God is an in-falsifiable hypothesis and therefore cannot be taken into account here.

#3: Pornography is Exploitative of Women.
The women in most of pornography are acting of a sound and consenting mind when they decide to perform in pornography, I however do not think this should be a gender-centered issue as men are equally portrayed in porn. Therefore I will continue referring to both sexes. Pornography is exploitative in the way that all sexualized media is. Magazine covers feature scantily-clad women, underwear ads for men show buff near-naked men. Sex sells. and there is nothing wrong with that. The fact that pornography makes money has nothing to do with its morality. We are simply following are evolutionary instincts by wanting to search out sex, and that is 100% natural.

I want to conclude by saying I wish this debate to be civil and not get out of hand.
Mikal

Con

I am going to debate this based off the resolution because I believe it to be false. This debate is not "Should porn be banned", or "Is porn morally acceptable".

We are discussing

"There is nothing wrong with pornography"

Nothing - it is flawless, and there are no errors present

The only thing I really have to do is show that there are in fact negative effects. Whether or not you can point out positive effects or show that porn is acceptable is irrelevant. The only thing I have to do is build a case around, that there are flaws within pornography itself.

I would like to apologize for any derogatory words or phrases I will use. This is a talk about porn though, and it is almost impossible to have without crossing some of those lines


Contention 1

Can promote early age pregnancy

This almost speaks for itself. With porn being so available and anyone having access to it, when younger children see the videos, they will be tempted to engage in sexual activity. This is not the case with all children but some. When there is this much porn around, it can become the norm.

So think of it from a kids perspective.

Example : A girl is watching porn online, and sees that guys react to it and like it. She observes another girl giving a guy head, and the guy responding in a positive way. She is going to relate this to her relationship and assume that guys like this. She will in turn go to her boyfriend and try giving him head because she observed that guys like it. Which leads to sex and which can lead to pregnancy. This is logical steps that are proven to be true. This is not just in high school anymore, but even in middle school.

A recent study shows this

"Children whom engage in or watch pornography, are three times more likely to engage in sexual activity before the age of 17"


Contention 2

Bad Ethics and decreasing work ethic

Girls who are having a hard time could see this, and assume that it is an easy way to make more or get attention. This again speaks for itself. Someone whom may not be smart, or may not get a lot of guys could whore herself out online for money. While this is her choice, it also sends an impression to her and to other people, that you do not need to educate yourself to succeed. It also can instill bad decisions in her such as sex will get her jobs or help her advance in life. While this is the case for some people, it is not the case for all.

For lack of better words " sucking a @#$fk " will not always land you a good job or help pay the bills. If it teaches her she does not have to work and can coast by on looks or what she does for guys, at some point it can quite possibly effect her life.


Contention 3

It can lead to marriage and relationship problems.

Guys are naturally horny. I am sorry to say but if you put a naked girl or sex tape in front of 90 percent of guys, they probably will not turn their heads(no pun intended). So with this being so available, guys whom may be having a slow sex life with their wife or gf, may be tempted to watch this to help pleasure themselves. If the spouse is not okay with this, it can lead to divorce or the relationship ending. While they are making the choice to watch it, this is a side effect or porn and it is indirectly causing harm in that manner.


Contention 4

Can put ideas about sexual exploration into a guys or girls mind

Okay lets face it, not all people are kinky or crazy. Most of the stuff you see in porn is though. Take example most christian people. A lot of christian girls will not go down on a guy. A guy watches porn, he is going to want to try this. If the girl says no, he could very well seek out someone else to try this with. Again porn has indirectly caused harm. This kind of ties into the last contention.


Contention 5

It decreases peoples self esteem.

Lets face it, most people who watch porn don't want to see a ugly girl or guy. All the people on there have 12 inch slongs, and perfect bodies. 90 percent of the populace is not so lucky. The average penis size of a guy is like 6-7 inches, and most girls weigh around 120-160 pounds. That is perfectly normal and acceptable. A girl or guy can watch that, and assume they are not good enough, because they are not engaging in sexual activity like that on the videos. Thus it will make them think of ways to improve their physical appearance. Again indirect harm.


In Closing

Be reminded, I am not arguing against porn. If someone wants to jerk off to fake sex or stimulate themselves to random people, that is their freedom and their right. If a couple wants to watch it together and get kinky, that is cool too. It should remain legal, for a lot of reasons. That is not what we are debating though.

My adversary has claimed there is nothing wrong with porn, meaning there are no negative effects. I have just given a few among thousands of negative reasons.

http://theresurgence.com...
http://www.oprah.com...
http://www.aarp.org...
Debate Round No. 1
Ozymandias_King_of_Kings

Pro

Contention 1

Can promote early age pregnancy

This almost speaks for itself. With porn being so available and anyone having access to it, when younger children see the videos, they will be tempted to engage in sexual activity. This is not the case with all children but some. When there is this much porn around, it can become the norm.

So think of it from a kids perspective.

Example : A girl is watching porn online, and sees that guys react to it and like it. She observes another girl giving a guy head, and the guy responding in a positive way. She is going to relate this to her relationship and assume that guys like this. She will in turn go to her boyfriend and try giving him head because she observed that guys like it. Which leads to sex and which can lead to pregnancy. This is logical steps that are proven to be true. This is not just in high school anymore, but even in middle school.

A recent study shows this

"Children whom engage in or watch pornography, are three times more likely to engage in sexual activity before the age of 17"

Argument: "Children whom engage in or watch pornography, are three times more likely to engage in sexual activity before the age of 17." The argument that pornography makes children sexually active is a silly (no offense) one because children are already sexually active if they are watching pornography. She will want to give her boyfriend head because our species' evolutionary instinct tells her, not because she watches porn. That's in the same line as saying that people who watch action movies will shoot people or people who watch horror movies will become serial killers. It's not rational. Kids below the age of puberty will not be stimulated by its effects and therefore the argument is invalid for them, the fact of the matter is teenage pregnancies will happen whether or not pornography is around. Look at this statistic here: "Teen pregnancy rates fell 40 percent from 1990 to 2008, the latest year for which complete data are available, according to the U.S. National Center for Health Statistics." If this is true, then there can't be any major correlation from porn to pregnancy, for in the time period from 1990-2008 the porn industry grew rapidly, yet teen pregnancy did not. Source:
http://health.usnews.com...

Contention 2

Bad Ethics and decreasing work ethic

Girls who are having a hard time could see this, and assume that it is an easy way to make more or get attention. This again speaks for itself. Someone whom may not be smart, or may not get a lot of guys could whore herself out online for money. While this is her choice, it also sends an impression to her and to other people, that you do not need to educate yourself to succeed. It also can instill bad decisions in her such as sex will get her jobs or help her advance in life. While this is the case for some people, it is not the case for all.

For lack of better words " sucking a @#$fk " will not always land you a good job or help pay the bills. If it teaches her she does not have to work and can coast by on looks or what she does for guys, at some point it can quite possibly effect her life.

Argument: You know what the problem with this argument is? Pornography did not tell her to go into porn. A similar argument could be made that young children shouldn't watch movies because then they might want to become a director, but they might not make it into the movie business and it could adversely affect their life. And as for the "it ... sends an impression to her and to other people, that you do not need to educate yourself to succeed" comment, I do not understand this, are you trying to say that people will see her become wealthy from porn without having a proper college education and therefore get into it? What is wrong with making money from pornography? and even so that is not a problem with pornography itself that is an issue with people's career choices.

Contention 3

It can lead to marriage and relationship problems.

Guys are naturally horny. I am sorry to say but if you put a naked girl or sex tape in front of 90 percent of guys, they probably will not turn their heads(no pun intended). So with this being so available, guys whom may be having a slow sex life with their wife or gf, may be tempted to watch this to help pleasure themselves. If the spouse is not okay with this, it can lead to divorce or the relationship ending. While they are making the choice to watch it, this is a side effect or porn and it is indirectly causing harm in that manner.

Argument: This is not a fault of pornography itself. This is the fault of the male party for not asking if his wife/gf was with this. Even so you have not provided ample evidence to support the claim that divorce is a bad thing. If the man thinks that porn is absolutely fine then perhaps the girl isn't really right for him.

Contention 4

Can put ideas about sexual exploration into a guys or girls mind

Okay lets face it, not all people are kinky or crazy. Most of the stuff you see in porn is though. Take example most christian people. A lot of christian girls will not go down on a guy. A guy watches porn, he is going to want to try this. If the girl says no, he could very well seek out someone else to try this with. Again porn has indirectly caused harm. This kind of ties into the last contention.

Argument: See previous. perhaps the couple was meant to break up, breaking up is not necessarily a bad thing, and you have not provided ample evidence to persuade this fact.

Contention 5

It decreases peoples self esteem.

Lets face it, most people who watch porn don't want to see a ugly girl or guy. All the people on there have 12 inch slongs, and perfect bodies. 90 percent of the populace is not so lucky. The average penis size of a guy is like 6-7 inches, and most girls weigh around 120-160 pounds. That is perfectly normal and acceptable. A girl or guy can watch that, and assume they are not good enough, because they are not engaging in sexual activity like that on the videos. Thus it will make them think of ways to improve their physical appearance. Again indirect harm.

Argument: From watching porn myself, I can tell you that I never felt inadequate from what I was seeing. Nobody I know has said anything about their porn making them feel inadequate, in fact even the girls I know never say anything, and these people are open about these things trust me.

In conclusion, I wish to state that I probably titled this wrongly, but you have yet to give enough evidence that there is anything wrong with pornography.
Mikal

Con

Rebuttal 1

The argument that pornography makes children sexually active is a silly (no offense) one because children are already sexually active if they are watching pornography.


That is a fallacy, and you are also straw manning the point. While they may be sexually active while they are watching pornography. It serves as a catalyst and peeks their interest in sex. Whether they are "sexually" active with themselves is irrelevant. Most people and I would say a majority of kids find out about sex through pornography online. By the time parents get ready to have a chat with them about it, they already know what sex is. It is far to common and easy to access.

Regarding your statistics, that is irrelevant. I have shown stats saying that it encourages and promotes sexual activity among teenagers whom are not sexually educated. Even if one person where to get pregnant because they watched porn, your initial statement is wrong. You are saying there is nothing wrong it, how many people get pregnant is a non factor. If one person where to get pregnant or engage in sex because of this, and have a negative experience your resolution is false.

Note: You did concede to the fact that children are sexually active at a young age and that pron could contribute to this. This is a problem that porn causes all within itself. Children are engaging in sexual acts before they are even developed enough to understand them.


Rebuttal 2

"Argument: You know what the problem with this argument is? Pornography did not tell her to go into porn"

Again you straw manned the point. Of course porn can not physically tell her to go into the pron business. It can not speak and that is her choice, but it can act as a catalyst. Similar to contention 1.

R2A: "What is wrong with making money from pornography"

Nothing is wrong with making money in itself, I stated that but it decrease ethics. It will show someone they can get by with just looks and that they do not need to try anything else. While it is her choice to do this, it also instilled her ideas that she can coast by in life without trying anything else. She also will be under the impression that sex can get her what she wants. That is classic Freudian psychology.


Rebuttal 3

"Argument: This is not a fault of pornography itself. This is the fault of the male party for not asking if his wife/gf was with this. Even so you have not provided ample evidence to support the claim that divorce is a bad thing. If the man thinks that porn is absolutely fine then perhaps the girl isn't really right for him."


This is a a fallacy and a straw man all at once. Again porn can not make someone watch it, but because of porn, it is indirectly causing an issue. Similar to saying if a girl threw herself at a guy while he was in a relationship, only the guy is at fault. No both parties are at fault. Porn is a catalyst once again.

Also saying divorce is not a bad thing if the guy did not want it? That literally makes no sense. If if it causing an undesired effect for the party at hand, it is in fact causing issues. Therefore you resolution is false. I understood you worded this badly, but trying to avoid it with bad semantics will not prove a point.



Rebuttal 4

"Argument: See previous. perhaps the couple was meant to break up, breaking up is not necessarily a bad thing, and you have not provided ample evidence to persuade this fact."

Completely avoided this point. If the relationship was fine beforehand, and because one of the chose to watch porn it added sexual ideas and thoughts. It in term caused and issue for one of the two in the relationship.

You are saying it could be a good thing, but that is only considering your thoughts about the situation and is kind of erroneous. When and if they were to break up, one of the two would be harmed. It would not be a mutual break up because how it happened. Then when you trace it back and see the root of the problem is pron, it has caused the issue indirectly once again. Therefore it is at fault in some ways.


Rebuttal 5

"Argument: From watching porn myself, I can tell you that I never felt inadequate from what I was seeing. Nobody I know has said anything about their porn making them feel inadequate, in fact even the girls I know never say anything, and these people are open about these things trust me."


This is so entirely irrelevant, that it almost warrants no response. You are comparing yourself, and using yourself as a gauge for 6 billion other people in the world. Whether you or you friends do not feel bad or half self esteem problems is a non factor. All I have to do is show that if one person feels like they need to improve themselves because of porn, then it has caused an issue. Thus there is something wrong it. If more than one person feel this way, it is a bigger issue.

I have even cited sources to support this point. This is not an assumption it's a fact. Not so pretty girls see pretty girls and want to be prettier. Guys see Guys with bigger slongs and wish they had them or that it is normal to have them. This is not an assumption, but porn sets up unrealistic standards, and when people see this, some of them start to wonder why am they not like this. All of this is in my sources as well.

That is why modeling and picking only skinny models is such a hot topic in America and this point, because it lowers the self esteem of teenagers, women, and guys alike.


In Closing

My adversary has taken an impossible stance to defend.

When you say "there is nothing wrong with (x)", you are taken an affirmative position in a impossible stance. There is something wrong with everything. Even if there is nothing wrong with this from his perspective, from other peoples perspectives, there could be something wrong.

I said it earlier as well. Porn is perfectly moral and acceptable to watch. It helps some couples engage in sexual exploration. It helps other couples try threesomes and sex with different partners to spice up their sex life. It gives couples new ideas with sexual positions and anything else you can think of. While not all people may agree with it, it is their right to try it and do what they want.

It is impossible to say however, that nothing is wrong with porn. I have just given a few out of thousands of reasons why he chose such a bad resolution.

Needless to say, his resolution is impossible to uphold. He would need to reword it to something like "Porn is morally acceptable to watch"
Debate Round No. 2
Ozymandias_King_of_Kings

Pro

I have stated that there is nothing innately wrong with pornography. My contender has given ample examples of ways pornography can indirectly cause "negative things", but in the end he has given absolutely zero examples of its objective wrongness. I have tried to show this to him in a manner of telling him that it is not porn itself causing things like bad work ethics or teenage pregnancy, and even though the morality of these things are completely subjective and they are indirectly linked to porn, the contender still clings to these and claims I am using "straw man" arguments.

In conclusion: my contender has provided no evidence that porn in itself is wrong, and therefore I have one this debate.
Mikal

Con

Note: My adversary just offered his closing remarks without rebuttals, so I will assume mine remain uncontested and he himself accepts that porn can indirectly cause harm.

Again let us look at the title.

"There is nothing wrong with pornography"

My adversary is not claiming that there is nothing "morally wrong with watching pornography" or " There is no objective reason to believe porn is wrong".

This is not his resolution and both of these claims do not apply to this debate. He must abide by his resolution.

I have shown multiple ways in which pornography can have a negative effect on people. If anyone one of these claims is shown to be true, then there is "something wrong" with pornography.

Perhaps if he chose a better resolution he would have been able to defend this. With this current resolution, it is sadly impossible to defend. There is no way to claim there is "nothing" wrong with (x). That is dependent on a persons perception and submits itself to a query of questions and facts. He could have verily easily argued the fact that it is morally permissible to watch, but again that is not the case.

His resolution is impossible to uphold.
Debate Round No. 3
22 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by dawndawndawndawn 3 years ago
dawndawndawndawn
a-mouse, make your case
Posted by anonymouse 3 years ago
anonymouse
theres alot wrong with pornography
Posted by dawndawndawndawn 3 years ago
dawndawndawndawn
what wrichcirw said
Posted by wrichcirw 3 years ago
wrichcirw
Hmmm...interesting debate. This looks to be a massive framework win by CON.

Basically, PRO conceded the meaning of the resolution to CON, who essentially hijacked it and redefined it as he saw fit. When I read the resolution, I can see the colloquial meaning, which essentially means "On balance, porn is OK", or that "Porn is overall not harmful".

CON instead took each word at its literal meaning, and set up the condition that had he shown there was ANYTHING wrong with porn (i.e., "not nothing wrong), that he'd win the debate, and PRO surprisingly left this uncontested and in multiple occasions even conceded a poorly worded resolution.

This debate demonstrates the danger of leaving the resolution undefined and without discussion. Without knowing PRO's original intent in how he phrased the resolution, and with PRO all but accepting CON's framing of it, this becomes a surprisingly easy win for CON. PRO then attempts to frame the resolution on "objective wrongness" in the final round without explaining the criteria for objectivity and while dropping most of CON's case.

I would highly recommend in the future that PRO more fully discuss the intention inherent in his resolution before the debate begins, so as to leave him less vulnerable to the tactics used by CON in this debate. As it is, CON got away with it, and PRO dropped most arguments in the final round. Arguments CON.
Posted by Mikal 3 years ago
Mikal
You are totally missing the topic. It is not whether it causes more bad than good, that would play a factor in the legalization or no legalization of it. Even if it is morally acceptable possibly. When he says there is nothing wrong with it. That means if there is one mistake found within it, the resolution is false. It doesn't have to be multiple mistakes, or more bad mistakes than good mistakes. Simply one thing that porn has caused wring would be enough to prove his resolution false.
Posted by dawndawndawndawn 3 years ago
dawndawndawndawn
I agreed with most of what Pro said and he said what I would have said. He missed the point that if the wife doesn't want to empty out her husband ever y night and , in the past, many men would go find real women, is she really going to lose her mind if his clicks-empties and has no new germs? I don't find that all women divorce or that all women know and the problem is more that the woman is taught things about marriage that have nothing to do with living as long as we live now - three times as long as our ancestors. FEW marriages stay in the fairytale frame in which they are conceived.
Posted by dawndawndawndawn 3 years ago
dawndawndawndawn
Does it cause more problems than it solves?

If we take porn away, many sexual
problems will not go away.

What is your solution for those problems, please?
Posted by dawndawndawndawn 3 years ago
dawndawndawndawn
Does it cause more problems than it solves?

If we take porn away, many sexual
problems will not go away.

What is your solution for those problems, please?
Posted by Mikal 3 years ago
Mikal
It is irrelevant whether it is right or wrong, that is on a persona level . The topic was does it cause problems. It does. and that can not be disputed.
Posted by dawndawndawndawn 3 years ago
dawndawndawndawn
Gwydion777 , is all sex wrong? Are/were all Playboy magazines wrong?

Since you are the king now, what would YOU like people to do with their sexuallity?
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by johnnyvbassist 3 years ago
johnnyvbassist
Ozymandias_King_of_KingsMikalTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Though I still agree with Con, I found this debating to be shallow. I know Con can debate better and should attempt to address the spirit of the issues behind pro's argument. Nitpicking at flaws in his statement is necessary, but Con should also try to enter into a discussion about Pro's reasoning for his thesis.
Vote Placed by wrichcirw 3 years ago
wrichcirw
Ozymandias_King_of_KingsMikalTied
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Reasons for voting decision: see comments - regardless of arguments, PRO all but conceded to a poorly worded resolution without a fight.
Vote Placed by 2-D 3 years ago
2-D
Ozymandias_King_of_KingsMikalTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Good arguments from Pro but the resolution was just poorly worded and con was able to create a case for real harm.
Vote Placed by Orangatang 3 years ago
Orangatang
Ozymandias_King_of_KingsMikalTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro had an impossible to defend resolution to begin with. Pro resorted to saying that porn cannot be proven to be objectively wrong, which is not what the resolution says. Con has shown many reasons why porn is wrong in many situations Pro did respond with many strawmen. Pro was more compelling in general and had better spelling and grammar than Pro. Pro must be very miticulous on the wording of his resolution and his debate intentions in round 1.