The Instigator
TheThinker01
Pro (for)
The Contender
PowerPikachu21
Con (against)

There is Observable Impericle Evidence that Allah Exists.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: Select Winner
Started: 11/12/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 weeks ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 178 times Debate No: 96951
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (22)
Votes (0)

 

TheThinker01

Pro

How can somebody be a creationist and not believe in God? An athiest and believe in science? Both of these things are contradictory. I am here to clear contradiction, and answer questions for these sets of people.

The Quran has over 40 COMPLETE sciences, that no man, let alone an illiterate arabian sheepherder could possibly have known, therefore can't have been authored by man, therefore God exists.

This is my claim. If my claim was true God would undoubtebly exist, because if no man could have authored the Quran, then who else could have other than God?

In this debate I would prove my claim, using profound verses from the Quran.
PowerPikachu21

Con

I accept. I was personally challenged to this debate. I would like to clarigy the resolution with definitions, first. I'll start arguments Round 2. (And if my opponent forfeits, it's not my fault.)

Definitions:

Observable: Able to be sensed via sight, or other senses.

Impericle: Not a word. I think he meant "Undenyable".

Undenyable: Foolish to doubt, as cold, hard evidence exists.

Evidence: the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid (Gotten from Google)

Allah: God, as said by Muslims and Arabics. Allah is described as the all knowing, and all powerful creator of the Universe. (https://en.wikipedia.org...)

Exists: Having objective being within our Universe.

I look forward to this discussion. Let's begin, and may Arceus watch over.
Debate Round No. 1
TheThinker01

Pro

"I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today.I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion far from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Savior of Humanity."

~ George Bernard Shaw

"When you eliminate the impossible. Whatevers left, no matter how improbable, has to be the truth."

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle ~ Sherlock Holmes

Yes all your definitions are ok apart from "undenyable" (spelt undeniable) as it was supposed to be (e)mpericle.

Meaning:
Based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic.

Observable doesn't have to be something you see first hand, observable evidence that it's the year 2000 would be that it's 2000 years after AD was marked, of course you don't have to live 2000 years to know this. Another example would be evolution is a theory because we haven't witness a single species adapt into another since we've been on earth.

To elaborate on the meaning of the word "Allah", it means the One true (G)od of Abraham. "Illah", would mean any god, it could be a statue, or a person, like Jesus.

I will simultaneously debunk the Bible in case you would want to use the argument, "the Bible is just as profound yet both books contradict therefore your argument is invalid", if (if) that were true that would be a very strong argument. As it's a 3 round debate I suggest we cram in as much facts in as we can rather than ellaborating too much on certain subjects. For round 2 I will focus more on authenticating the Quran using mathematics, and less on proving it's divine intervention. SO.

The Quran is much more simplistic than the bible, and our athiest friends would agree. How is a 5 year old supposed to understand the complexities of the Trinity. There are 40,000 christian denominations so it can't be that simplistic. Around 70 english different bibles, and God knows how many non english bibles. So it's not preserved, it's altered, and not authentic. We don't even have it's original form as the original copies were burned in the Vatican.

There is only 1 Arabic Quran, (but 20 english Quran representations). There are only 72 Islamic sects. The Quran has been orally preserved, and there are 5,000,000 people on earth today who have memorised the entire Quran today, therefore it's impossible for it to be lost. If every Quran on earth was burnt we could reproduce it in 5 minutes. All we'd have to do is recite it, and if someone in Lebanon made a mistake in his recitation, a 7 year old in Egypt would correct him. You can't do this with the Bible or any other Holy Book. The Quran means "that which is recited".

The Quran confirms the Gospel of Jesus as it was at the time of Muhammad (not now), confirms the Torah (not as it is now).

It has mathematical miracles that can't be mere coincidences and accidents, like the miracle of 19 in the Quran. Not only do these mathematical miracles prove divinity, but also prove that it's preserved, because if a single iota was to be changed not a single of these miracles would remain there.

https://asharisassemble.com...

Remember the Quran has 6,000 verses and 350,000 letters.

Every single words opposite, appears an equal number of times in the Quran. No matter what type of word it is. As someone currently learning Arabic I know how hard this is.

The word for man (ar-Rajul) and the word for woman (Imra-ah) occur 24 times each.
The word for satan (shaytaan) and the word for angel (malaa-ikah) occur 68 times each.
The word for this life (dunya) and the word for the next life (aakhirah) occur 115 times each.
The word for month (shahr) occurs 12 times.
The word for two months (shahrayn) occurs 30 times.
The word for day (yaum) occurs 365 times.

The word for dry land (barr, etc.) occurs 13 times when contrasted with the word for sea (bahr) which occurs 32 times. Now 13 to 32 happens to be the approximate ratio of land to water on the surface of the globe.??????????????

What explains these instances of correspondence? There are three viable considerations: either it is by chance, by human design, or by divine design. But these are too much to credit to mere chance. Nor did it come about by human design. No one knew about this until recent studies uncovered it.

The chapter named al-Hadeed (Iron) is the 57th chapter. It has 29 verses. There is a mathematical relationship between these two numbers, as follows:

57 x 29 = 1653

The sum of the whole numbers from 1 to 57 is the same, represented mathematically as:

1+2+3+. . .+ 57=1653

It appears that the number of verses could have been almost any number, and that 29 was chosen to result in this correspondence.

The chapter al-Hajj (The Pilgrimage) has the Quran"s last mention of "pilgrimage" in verse number 27. This verse has 14 words. There is a mathematical relationship between these two numbers:

14 x 27 = 378

1+2+3+. . .+ 27=378

That's enough on Mathematics.

It has linguistic poetic miracles, which has caused many famous poets around the world to convert to Islam.
It is the fastest growing religion in the world (including athiesm), the fastest among university graduates (including athiesm), and 70% of those who study comparative religion convert to islam, 80% of these are women.

The bible however says the earth is flat? The earth and all it's life was created before the sun? Light was before the sun and other stars? Adam and Eve coincidently already has sexual organs before they were forced to reproduce?

Apparently the leader at the time of Moses was "pharoah" according to the Bible. The Quran correctly states it was"king", it was impossible for anyone to know this until we gained access to hieroglyphics in the 21st century.

The Quran also correctly states that the kings body was "preserved as an example for the whole of humanity", whereas the bible incorrectly states he was lost at sea. The Kings body now remains at the Alexandria museum, the worlds largest tourist attraction.

The worlds largest tourist attraction?

"preserved for the whole world to see?"

Not only does the Quran correct our understanding of the past, it also predicts the future and has many fulfilled prophecies.

Has sciences (30 complete sciences) that no man of the 7th century could possibly have known until the 21st century (1400 years), let alone an illiterate arabian caravan trader (Muhammed). These sciences include Cosmology, Embryology, Psychology, Geology, Tectonics, Biology, Hygiene, Genetics, and 22 more.

Let's use embryology as an example. The Quran (650AD) states that the foetus begins as like a leech. Until the 19th century science believed that the sperm contains a mini embryo which already contains the foetus (drops of baby). Or there was a mini embryo already waiting in the egg (wrong). The Quran at this point contradicted science, but correctly stated that the sperm and the egg come together and fertilize creating the embryo.

But then! It was only until 1930, that science (1930AD ) accepted the Quranic version (650AD) of embryology (1400 YEARS DIFFERENCE!!). Now, what changed science between 650AD and 1930AD,was the discovery of the electromicroscope. So you could physically see what's going on at the egg. So when they looked they could see, that what takes place is exactly how the Quran describes, which is impossibly true.

The Question is, how was the Qurans version of Embryology 1400 years ahead of us? Was it a mere coincidence? Well you can safely say that there is a 50% chance of it being a coincidence or not, as you have no reason to claim that it's a coincidence.

However, if (if) I were to tell you that the Quran was 1400 years ahead of us, in 30 different complete sciences. This is no mere coincidence. The Quran could have only been authored by man or God, but since it's impossible for any man to have authored the Quran, the only possibility left, is God. This is the truth. This God calls himself Allah.

"When you eliminate the impossible. Whatevers left, no matter how improbable, has to be the truth."

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle ~ Sherlock Holmes

So no my athiest friend it's not "an impossibility".

THIS IS WHAT IM CLAIMING (CLAIMING).

If what I was claiming were true, then no man on earth could have authored this book, therefore God exists. UNDOUBTEDLY.

You should by now (assuming you read the shabir ally article) undoubtedly agree that the Quran has been unchanged and unalteterd, and there is at least a 40% chance of divine intervention?

You should agree, that if (if) I can provide quotes from the Quran which are profound and not possible for any 7th century man to have know, then I've eliminated the impossible, and only God is left?

So ask me for proof, and tell me that your genuinely interested and not just wanting an argument, and I'll give you more proof.

In the next round I will give you proof on the Qurans scientific claims, and whatever else you ask of.
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Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
22 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by PowerPikachu21 2 weeks ago
PowerPikachu21
Okay! We get it! Make another debate if you want, TheThinker01. Yeah, Quran knows all. But someone might be able to refute that argument (Not me, sadly).
Posted by TheThinker01 2 weeks ago
TheThinker01
read from the bottom
Posted by TheThinker01 2 weeks ago
TheThinker01
This property of the seas, that they come together yet do not mingle with one another at all, has only very recently been discovered by oceanographers. Because of the physical force called "surface tension", the waters of neighbouring seas do not mix. Caused by the difference in the density of their waters, surface tension prevents them from mingling with one another, just as if a thin wall were between them.(11)
The interesting side to this is that during a period when people had no knowledge of physics, surface tension, or oceanography; this was revealed in the Qur'an.

"Or (the unbelievers' state) are like the darkness of a fathomless sea which is covered by waves above which are waves above which are clouds, layers of darkness, one upon the other. If he puts out his hand, he can scarcely see it. Those God gives no light to, they have no light."
(The Qur'an, )

The general environment in deep seas is described in the book named Oceans:

The darkness in deep seas and oceans is found around a depth of 200 meters and below. At this depth, there is almost no light. Below a depth of 1000 meters there is no light at all.(12)
Today, we know about the general structure of the sea, the characteristics of the living things in it, its salinity, as well as the amount of water it contains, its surface area and depth. Submarines and special equipment, developed with modern technology, enable scientists to obtain this information.

hile it is stated in the Qur'an that it is easy for God to bring man back to life after death, peoples' fingerprints are particularly emphasized:
"Yes, we are able to put together in perfect order the very tips of his fingers."
(The Qur'an, 75:3-4)

"Have you not seen how God drives along the clouds, then joins them together, then makes them into a stack, and then you see the rain come out of it? And He sends down from the sky mountain masses (of clouds) with cold hail in them, strikin
Posted by TheThinker01 2 weeks ago
TheThinker01
In some verses, it is indicated that people perceive time differently and that sometimes people can perceive a very short period of time as a very lengthy one. The following conversation of people held during their judgement in the Hereafter is a good example of this:

"He will say, 'How many years did you tarry on the earth?' They will say, 'We tarried there for a day or part of a day. Ask those able to count!' He will

"It is He who sends down water in due measure from the sky by which We bring a dead land back to life. That is how you too will be raised (from the dead)."
(The Qur'an,43.11)

This measured quantity in rain has again been discovered by modern research. It is estimated that in one second, approximately 16 million tons of water evaporates from the Earth. This figure amounts to 513 trillion tons of water in one year. This number is equal to the amount of rain that falls on the Earth in a year. This means that water continuously circulates in a balanced cycle, in a "measure". Life on Earth depends on this water cycle. Even if people used all the available technology in the world, they would not be able to reproduce this cycle artificially.

Also before the Quran was accepted, we believed that plants grew and fed only from the soil.

One of the properties of seas that has only recently been discovered is related in a verse of the Qur'an as follows:
"He has let loose the two seas, converging together, with a barrier between them they do not break through."
(The Qur'an, 55.19-20)

This property of the seas, that they come together yet do not mingle with one another at all, has only very recently been discovered by oceanographers. Because of the physical force called "surface tension", the waters of neighbouring seas do not mix. Caused by the difference in the density of their waters, surface tension prevents them from mingling with one another, just as if a thin wall were between them.(11)
The interesting side to this is that during a peri
Posted by TheThinker01 2 weeks ago
TheThinker01
sorry about the excorcism videos, they're from accidental youtube comment URL's.
Posted by TheThinker01 2 weeks ago
TheThinker01
Mountains have roots deep under the surface of the ground. (Earth, Press and Siever, p. 413)

Schematic section. Mountains, like pegs, have deep roots embedded in the ground. (Anatomy of the Earth, Cailleux, p.220)
31

""And We sent DOWN iron in which there lies great force and which has many uses for mankind...."
(The Qur'an, 57.25)

The word "sent down," particularly used for iron in the verse, could be thought of having a metaphorical meaning to explain that iron has been given to benefit people. But when we take into consideration the literal meaning of the word, which is, "being physically sent down from the sky", (asteroid/ meteorite) we realize that this verse implies a very significant scientific miracle. Or it could mean the opposite and it being down underneath us, which humans also couldn"t have known.

Today, the relativity of time is a proven scientific fact. This was revealed by Einstein's theory of relativity at the early years of the 20th century. Until then, people did not know that time was a relative concept, and that it could change according to the environment. Yet, the great scientist Albert Einstein openly proved this fact with the theory of relativity. He showed that time is dependent on mass and velocity. In the history of humanity, no one had expressed this fact clearly before.

With one exception though; the Qur'an included information about time's being relative! Some verses about the subject read:

"They ask you to hasten the punishment. God will not break His promise. A day with your Lord is equivalent to a thousand years in the way you count."
(The Qur'an,32.5)

"He directs the whole affair from heaven to earth. Then it will again ascend to Him on a Day whose length is a thousand years by the way you measure."
(The Qur'an, 32:5)

"The angels and the Spirit ascend to Him in a day whose length is fifty thousand years."
(The Qur'an, 70:4)
Posted by TheThinker01 2 weeks ago
TheThinker01
"We made the sky a preserved and protected roof yet still they turn away from Our Signs""
(The Quran, 21.32 )

This attribute of the sky has been proved by scientific research carried out in the 20th century.

The atmosphere surrounding the earth serves crucial functions for the continuity of life. While destroying many meteors big and small as they approach the earth, it prevents them from falling to earth and harming living things.

"By Heaven with its cyclical systems."
(The Qur'an,86.11 )

This word interpreted as "cyclical" in Qur'an translations also has meanings of "sending back" or "returning".

One fact about the universe revealed in the verses of the Qur'an is that the sky is made up of seven layers.
"It is He Who created everything on the earth for you and then directed His attention up to heaven and arranged it into seven regular heavens. He has knowledge of all things."
(The Qur'an, )

"Then He turned to heaven when it was smoke. In two days He determined them as seven heavens and revealed, in every heaven, its own mandate."
(The Qur'an, )

The word "heavens", which appears in many verses in the Qur'an, is used to refer to the sky above the Earth, as well as the entire universe. Given this meaning of the word, it is seen that the Earth's sky, or the atmosphere, is made up of seven layers.

The Earth has all the attributes that are needed for life. One of them is the atmosphere, which serves as a shield protecting living things. Today, it is an established fact that the atmosphere is made up of different layers lying on top of one another. Just as it is described in the Qur'an, the atmosphere is made up of exactly seven layers. This is certainly one of the miracles of the Qur'an.

"We placed firmly embedded mountains on the earth, so it would not move under them""
(The Qur'an, 21.31)
Posted by TheThinker01 2 weeks ago
TheThinker01
These facts communicated in the Qur'an have been discovered by astronomical observations in our age. According to the calculations of experts on astronomy, the Sun is traveling at the enormous speed of 720,000 kilometres an hour in the direction of the star Vega in a particular orbit called the Solar Apex. This means that the sun travels roughly 17,280,000 kilometres a day. Along with the Sun, and all planets and satellites within the gravitational system of the Sun also travel the same distance. In addition, all the stars in the universe are in a similar planned motion.

That the entire universe is full of paths and orbits such as this one, is written in the Qur'an as follows:
"By the sky full of paths and orbits" 51.7
"He has created the Heavens and the Earth for Truth. He wraps the night up in the day, and wraps the day up in the night."
(The Qur'an, 39:5)

In the Qur'an, the words used for describing the universe are quite remarkable. The Arabic word that is translated as, "to wrap" in the above verse is, "takwir".

Proof the Quran isn"t geocentric.
"It is not allowable for the sun to reach the moon, nor does the night overtake the day, but each, in an orbit, is swimming.'(36:40)
People were asking the Prophet, peace be upon him, if the sun and the moon were ever going to collide. The people thought that the sun and the moon were both running on one lane or line or orbit or path, and that they're together, and that if one slows down, then the other would catch up to it and they'd ultimately collide. Allah Almighty responded to this nonsense by making it absolutely clear that the sun and the moon are traveling in entirely different orbits, and that they could not catch up to each other"s and collide. So what the empty anti-Islamic of today try to prove as a scientific blunder in the Holy Quran turns out to be an accurate Scientific Statement and a Scientific Miracle of its time.

God calls our attention to a very interesting attribute of the sky:
Posted by TheThinker01 2 weeks ago
TheThinker01
The creation of man, and the miraculous aspect of this, is stressed in many other verses. Some items of information within these verses are so detailed that it is impossible for anyone living in the 7th century to have known them. Some of these are as follows:
1. Man is not created from the entire semen, but only a very small portion of it (sperm).
2. It is the male that determines the sex of the baby.
3. The human embryo adheres to the mother's uterus like a leech.
4. The embryo develops in three dark regions in the uterus.

Does man reckon he will be left uncontrolled (without purpose)? Was he not once a drop of ejected semen?"
(The Qur'an, 75.36-37)
"He has created both sexes, male and female from a drop of semen which has been ejected."
(The Qur'an, 53.45-46) the sperm determines the sex and gender of the child. (xy/xx)
(We) then formed the drop into a clot and formed the clot into a lump and formed the lump into bones and clothed the bones in flesh; and then brought him into being as another creature. Blessed be God, the Best of Creators!"
(The Qur'an, 23.14)
"... He creates you stage by stage in your mothers' wombs in a threefold darkness. That is God, your Lord. Sovereignty is His. There is no god but Him. So what has made you deviate?"
(The Qur'an, 39:6)

While referring to the Sun and the Moon in the Qur'an, it is emphasized that each moves in a definite orbit.

"It is He Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They swim along, each in a circular motion. "
(The Qur'an, 21.33)

It is mentioned in another verse, too, the sunset.

"And the sun runs to its resting place. That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing. "
(The Qur'an, 36.38)

These facts communicated in the Qur'an have been discovered by astronomical observations in our age. According to the calculations of experts on astronomy, the Sun is traveling at the enormous speed of 720,000 kilometres an hour in the direction of the star Vega in a particu
Posted by TheThinker01 2 weeks ago
TheThinker01
"And it is We who have constructed the heaven (in the Quran and Arabic this is used to describe either the sky or space) with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it."
(The Qur'an, 51.47)

"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before We clove them asunder, and We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?"
(The Qur'an, 21.30)

The word ratq translated as "sewn to" means "mixed in each, blended" in Arabic dictionaries. It is used to refer to two different substances that make up a whole. The phrase "we unstitched" is the verb fataqa in Arabic and implies that something comes into being by tearing apart or destroying the structure of ratq. The sprouting of a seed from the soil is one of the actions to which this verb is applied.

Let us take a look at the verse again with this knowledge in mind. In the verse, sky and earth are at first subject to the status of ratq. They are separated (fataqa) with one coming out of the other. Intriguingly, when we remember the first moments of the Big Bang, we see that a single point included all the matter in the universe. In other words, everything, including "the heavens and earth" which were not created yet, was included in this point in a condition of ratq. This point exploded violently, causing its matter to fataqa and in the process created the structure of the whole universe.

While referring to the Sun and the Moon in the Qur'an, it is emphasized that each moves in a definite orbit.

"It is We Who have created you. Why, then, do you not accept the truth? Have you ever considered that (seed) which you emit? Is it you who create it? Or are We the Creator?"
(The Qur'an, 56.57-59)
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