The Instigator
Rosalie
Pro (for)
Winning
6 Points
The Contender
lannan13
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

There is a Wage Gap Between Men and Women in the Workforce

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
Rosalie
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/16/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,108 times Debate No: 95445
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (31)
Votes (2)

 

Rosalie

Pro

Resolved "There is a Wage Gap between Men and Women"

Definitions:

[1] Wage Gap: The gender pay gap (also known as gender wage gap, male–female income difference, gender gap in earnings, gender earnings gap, gender income difference) is the difference between male and female earnings

Structure:

First round is for acceptance.
No new arguments in the final round (rebuttals that follow from the previous round are allowed). Otherwise, arguments and counter-arguments are free to be used the discretion of the debater.


Rules:

Must follow the structure of the debate.

Must agree upon definition provided. You may not change the definition of "Wage Gap" in your round.

No "K's"

Comment if Interested. :)

Sources:

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org...

lannan13

Con

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
Rosalie

Pro

To win this debate, I must simply prove that there is a wage gap amongst women and men, in the United States. I must prove that women make less money, then men, because of the fields they chose to work in. I will not be arguing inequality, or sexism, but just the fact that women are paid less (sometimes for the same job) because they work less hours, than men.

In 2015, a study had found that women make .77cents less to the dollar, than men. A Harvard professor responded to this statistic, by saying [1] “"That is possibly the case in certain places, but by and large it's not that, it's something else." That "something else," is choice — in the careers that women take, the hours they work and the time off they take.

It is a fact that women get paid less, due to choices in the workforce, and what jobs they decide to take. So, what are some of these reasons why, women make less?

Women in the workforce are less likely to work full time, compared to men.

The graph below demonstrates the amount of men, and women, who work full time, it is clear that more men chose to work full time, compared to women working full time. Even if a man and women work in the same field, if a women chooses to work part time, she will earn less.

We can also see that it is more common for women to choose part time jobs, compared to men.

Part time, and full time workers by gender (C:\Users\User\Pictures\time-spent-working-by-full-and-part-time-status-gender-and-location-in-2014.svg)


[2]

Your salary depends are you major.

It should also be known, than women get paid less, because men chose to work in more dangerous and hazardous fields. They also chose jobs that require continuous physical activity.

Here is a list of the most male dominated majors.

[3]

Petroleum Mining and Mineral Engineering: 90%

Mining and Mineral engineering: 90% male

Chemical Engineering: 72% male

Now, here is a list of women dominated majors.

Early Childhood Education: 97% female

Social Work: 88% female

Communication Disorders Sciences and Services: 94% female

[3] Now, let’s take a look at how much a chemical engineer makes, annually. According to Wiki, “Median salary: $96,940 USD (2014)”

[4] Now, let’s see how much a social worker makes, annually. According to Occupational Lookout, “The median annual wage for social workers is $44,200”

That is a $52,740 difference, in annual salary.

As we can see, it is statistically proven, that men chose to work more dangerous, and hazardous jobs, than women. This is why men earn more, than women.

According to the definition I have provided The gender pay gap (also known as gender wage gap, male–female income difference, gender gap in earnings, gender earnings gap, gender income difference) is the difference between male and female earnings.”

I have simply proven, with facts, that there is indeed a wage gap, because there a income difference between the 2 genders, due to my arguments above.

Vote Pro.

Sources:

[1] http://www.washingtonexaminer.com...

[2] http://www.bls.gov...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org...

[4] http://www.bls.gov...

lannan13

Con

I thank my opponent for her challenge here and in this round I shall go into why it is really just a myth.

One thing that my opponent doesn't tell you is how the wage gap is supposedly calculated. This is done by taking the average income of all men and dividing it by the average medium income of women full time workers [1]. It is also no secrete that women outpopulate the US then men by a small percentage point of nearly 51 to 49% [2]. If this is the case, then why does Pro claim the wage gap supposedly exists? Let's look into some of the reasons as to why she might think this.

The demagraphics are a huge impact on this debate. There are many issues where the female is stuck with the child while the male can leave the relationship. This is one of the key issues that impact the debate as we can see that the status of the individual and the amount of dependents they have can make a serious impact on the issue. THe amount of hinderance that is placed on the female is shown that they are forced to workless and they are forced to shell out more and more money to harm their own financial abilities which already hinders their ability to work as this harms the ability of the mother to continue to work.



My opponent had advocated for a massive gap that men made more than women en mass, thus my opponent has limitted herself to arguing it one way, thus a pay gap could be shown, but it would have to be men making more than women. If I show it can exist yet the other way around, I win the debate. I have previously shown that women are massively hindered by their biological abilities to bare children while men don't, when we compare nationwide statistics of single workers of both sexes, we can see that women outpace men in all of the US's major cities including the national average [4]. Under this case, we can see this is the only even playing field and this does take into factor my opponent's argument on regards to majors and fields. This shows that this wage gap is really just a myth as women, when compared to men on an equal level in terms of martial and child standard, women outpace men by great amounts.

Another area is that of simple supply and demand. We can see that generic economics that when there is a low supply, wages are high, but when more and more people enter the field, we can see that these wages will lower. This has been shown to hold true when it holds to many of these fields. In many of these fields, we can see that when women enter these fields that Pro has layed out here for us, that the average wage has dropped nearly 57% in some areas [5]. Now, note that this happens in areas completely dominated by women, which I shall also get into later. Simple economics show that this really isn't this discrimination and this mythical nonsense, it's simple economics in effect. Another issue here is if this was the true stat of women being paid less than men, then you would see a barrage of women being highered into the workforce to cut the marginal cost in the workplace created by men, this by itself shows that such an aspect does not quite come up to par as this really is not the true status quo.

Top jobs were women make more than the male in the field.
1. Social worker - $1.08

2. Merchandiser - $1.08

3. Research assistant - $1.07

4. Purchasing specialist - $1.06

5. Physician advisor - $1.02

6. Communications associate - $1.02

7. Social media - $1.02

8. Health educator - $1.01

9. Procurement - $1.01

10. Business coordinators and therapists - $1.01

CNN had done research a few years ago and have found several fields were women make more money than the average male in the field [6]. I have brought up earlier to show that there are many factors that play into this such as purportions and basic human anatomy. There are many factors like that of there being mre women or men in a field than another which, by itself, shows there being an inbalance due to the unequality in the fields. I have previously shown in this debate that women, when placed on an even playing field and demographic as women, are paid more than the men. My opponent takes the top salaries of both fields and compares them. This argument is completely bogus as she takes these two jobs, which the skill levels are extremely different as well as the pay. Women and men are in both fields, just not as numerous as the other. My opponent is simply picking and choosing select points and this must be discarded. We can see that just going by the top most dominate fields, we are completely blurring data. We could easily compare the President's salary, since he's a man, to the social worker, this argument would be completely bogus just to compare the top wages of the most dominated fields. My opponent is stereotyping women as weak and fragile for not wanting to go into these other fields, but they do as we can even see that the most dominated male fields have more females in it then men in the top female dominated fields. If we were to include that statistic, wouldn't it show that since more women work in the higher fields then men in the female dominated fields that the women would make more monetary gains in this process? The answer is a resounding yes, so this argument must be flown into my favor.

I would like it to be a note that my opponent's graphs do not actually show as the only one linked is a file source on my opponent's computer. As for the argument in regards to part time vs. full time. I have already shown that the USFG calculates this using full time jobs, meaning that my opponent's arguments in regards to this does not actually factor into Pro's argument, but this actually aids my own arguments. How is this you may ask? We can see that many women do hold jobs, but the wage gap calculations only include full-time employees, this artificially lowers the female statistics here. The actually number is quite higher as my opponent has shown that these females are excluded from the calculation. Meaning that if they did work fulltime, they would be included and this myth of 77% would completely disappear. This argument can be flown into my favor.



Sources
1. (http://tinyurl.com...)
2. (http://tinyurl.com...)
3. (http://tinyurl.com...)
4. (http://tinyurl.com...)
5. (http://tinyurl.com...)
6. (http://tinyurl.com...)
Debate Round No. 2
Rosalie

Pro

“IThe demagraphics are a huge impact on this debate. There are many issues where the female is stuck with the child while the male can leave the relationship. This is one of the key issues that impact the debate as we can see that the status of the individual and the amount of dependents they have can make a serious impact on the issue. THe amount of hinderance that is placed on the female is shown that they are forced to workless and they are forced to shell out more and more money to harm their own financial abilities which already hinders their ability to work as this harms the ability of the mother to continue to work. “

Rebuttal: 1

First off, in order to understand what Con is saying, we must correct his spelling errors.

*The *Demographics *Hindrance

My opponent claims that women are often times stuck in a relationship, whilst a man can just leave, therefore leaving the child with the mother. But, my opponent provides no proof for this claim, therefore making this argument irrelevant, and mute. He also doesn’t tell us how this affects a woman working wise, or why this has a negative impact on the woman. My opponent also claims that this forces women to work less, but is this accurate? Surely, there is such a thing called daycare, or family to watch your children, while you’re at work.

My opponent has made a painless argument, because he has provided no proof, what so ever for his arguments, he just assumes that we should believe him.

Rebuttal #2

“My opponent had advocated for a massive gap that men made more than women en mass, thus my opponent has limitted herself to arguing it one way, thus a pay gap could be shown, but it would have to be men making more than women. If I show it can exist yet the other way around, I win the debate.”

This is false. We had agreed upon the definition of “Wage Gap- “] Wage Gap: The gender pay gap (also known as gender wage gap, male–female income difference, gender gap in earnings, gender earnings gap, gender income difference) is the difference between male and female earnings”

In round 1, I had simply argued that there is a gap between female, and male income. This is not limited (by the definition) to men. The fact that I have simply shown women are generally paid less, than men, I simply win. Then, I had argued, with facts, unlike you, that men make more than women.


Rebuttal #3

“Top jobs were women make more than the male in the field.”
1. Social worker - $1.08

2. Merchandiser - $1.08

3. Research assistant - $1.07

4. Purchasing specialist - $1.06

5. Physician advisor - $1.02

6. Communications associate - $1.02

7. Social media - $1.02

8. Health educator - $1.01

9. Procurement - $1.01

10. Business coordinators and therapists - $1.01

My opponent doesn’t provide a source for this, so he could be making this up, which wouldn’t matter anyways, because this argument is useless.

For 1. Is this list counting in women who work part time as well? In my previous arguments, I had shown the annual salary of a full time social worker, compared to a full time engineer that is a man. The man, with no doubt, made more.

For 2. Since there is no source, there is no way to find out what year this is from, no if it came from a bias source.

Conclusion:

I don’t even need to make any more rebuttals, because it’s pretty clear on who has won this debate. All I had to do, by the definition given, is show, and prove, that one gender (female) makes less than men do, regardless of education background. I have given, and proven many reasons why women chose to work less, compared to men.


Vote Pro.

lannan13

Con

I would like to thank my opponent for the debate and here in this final round I shall be wrapping things up here.

In this first portion my opponent, instead of actually refuting any of my argument goes and uses an ad hom against me. We must discard this. She states that I haven't offered up any evidence in regards to this, but we can see that infact I did in source number 3. It's also very strange as my opponent actually talks about this in her own arguments in nearly her first entire half of her R2 arguments. Ignoring this would be suicide for her own arguments. I have previously shown how many women are single parents and forced to take less and less time. Sure there are these daycares available, but when you don't make enough money for them or your family is so strapped for cash they have to have a parent stay home and watch the children. Not everyone has the curtesy and the type of capital to afford these things. We also have to factor in maternity leave and a long list of other things that do occur here. Ignoring this argument is simply a concession by my opponent. I extend these arguments across the board.

This is the Catch-22 my opponent has set up for herself. She did set up one scope of the debate in Round 1, but then committed a Shifting goal post fallacy to fit a different narrative. I have moved to go and refute the newly one that she had established and now she is wanting to shift it back. I ask that the judges note this. My opponent then goes and attacks me on stats. Please ignore this argument as I have brought up several arguments with full blown stats and economics into the debate and many of them have been dropped, so I will go into those later on. I would also like to point out how my opponent failed to refute that, when placed on an even playing field. That women beat out men, which defeats my opponent's argument.

My opponent's attacking of this top 10 is bogus as that came from my CNN source, source 6 to be exact. To refute my opponent's "For 1," the wage gap doesn't include nor count part time, I have brought this up in my last round and I have been the only one to go and actually define the USFG's method of calculation here. As a result, you must accept my evidence over my opponent's as the part time workers, for this portion, is irrelivant. Sure we can all know that an engineer makes more, but this doesn't mean that all female workers are only restricted to these fields, as I have brought up in my last round and has been dropped, this focuses on the medium in the wage gap, NOT the outliers. As a result, my opponent's argument is negated as it doesn't even talk about the purportion of pay and distribution, it just talks about the popularity of the majors, not success. As for "For 2," I've already stated it is from my CNN source (source 6) and the publish date was March 23rd of 2016, so it is quite a recent document.

My opponent has dropped several arguments that I have made in this debate and when voting, these should be considered a priori. My opponent has dropped the important fact that women beat out men when on an even playing field of being single starting out, which is the only way that the medical and child portion has yet to kick in. For if this wasn't the case, we can see that women would still beat out men even after pregnancy, but it's obvious that childcare has a major impact on the lives of women everywhere. This has been a major statistic that my opponent claims that I haven't provided and has been dropped by my opponent. She has also dropped the economic argument talking about the decline of wages when a new influx of workers enters the field by 57%, which is a statistic my opponent has not only dropped, but had once again failed to even acknowledge. My opponent has entirely dropped the USFG's method of calculating the wage gap that my opponent is attempting to argue for the existance in the debate, so we can also flow that argument to my side of the debate. My opponent has also dropped any argument that I have had against her case. This is key as the sole fact that she even refuses to defend her own case should result in a ballot in Negation. We can see that my opponent has no arguments left, dropped my attacks against her case, and much of my own arguments I urge a ballot in Negation.

Thank you and please vote Con!
Debate Round No. 3
31 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Quadrunner 4 months ago
Quadrunner
Not sure why, but I liked the banter in this debate. I'm Still undecided on who won it so that's gonna bother me.....OOOHHH, feel the tension! I'm gonna sleep on it and hopefully I'll have a vote for you guys tomorrow.
Posted by 16kadams 5 months ago
16kadams
Lannan, just hack the votes so you win
Posted by fire_wings 5 months ago
fire_wings
no prob. Why do you disagree?
Posted by lannan13 5 months ago
lannan13
Though I disagree with your decission, I thank you for actually reading the debate.
Posted by fire_wings 5 months ago
fire_wings
I made a new vote, and hopefully it's better :)
Posted by Rosalie 5 months ago
Rosalie
Thanks for voting FireWings. :)
Posted by ThinkBig 5 months ago
ThinkBig
Wow that was a quick debate. Will be sure to vote
Posted by lannan13 5 months ago
lannan13
Oh
Posted by Rosalie 5 months ago
Rosalie
Lannan, I was talking to TheBenC
Posted by lannan13 5 months ago
lannan13
No derp.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by BackCommander 5 months ago
BackCommander
Rosalielannan13Tied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: This debate was about the existence of a difference between the earnings of men and women, plain and simple. Pro uses the second round to point out that men are statistically more likely to have a full time job than women and that men dominate fields that pay more than the woman dominated fields. Con comes into the second round seemingly confused on what this debate is about. They incorrectly state that by bringing evidence of females making more than males they would win this debate, missing the point entirely. Pro is on the side of a wage gap existing, not on the side of men making more than women. Though Pro did use men making more than women in round two, their argument would still stand if women made more than men. Con wastes round two making an argument FOR Pro rather than against. In Con's final argument they state that Pro has engaged in a shifting goal post fallacy, a false claim. Con didn't stay on topic at all during this debate and quite obviously lost. Pro gets the vote.
Vote Placed by fire_wings 5 months ago
fire_wings
Rosalielannan13Tied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Because my vote was really short, and didn't seem good enough, I'll cast my vote again. The debate boils down into the resolution. The resolution is "There is a Wage Gap Between Men and Women in the Workforce". Con seems mistaken of this of "Men get more Money than Women." I'll now present what each side said. Pro argues that men get more money that women, as men do harder and harsher tasks/jobs. Con ultimately concedes that it is because Women care for their children, but that isn't the important concession. Con was talking about that women get more money than men. That is literally a concession because Con concedes that there is a Wage Gap between Men and Women. It wasn't about who gets more money; it was about *if* there is a wage gap or not. Con's side was difficult to argue, but he was supposed to argue about no Wage Gap, but as he concedes that there is a Wage Gap between Men and Women, I have no choice to vote for Pro because of the concession. Thus, I vote for PRO.