The Instigator
WIamwe
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
clmcd42
Con (against)
Winning
6 Points

There is mathematical Proof of the Existence of God

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
clmcd42
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/17/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,641 times Debate No: 68489
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (27)
Votes (1)

 

WIamwe

Pro

There is mathematical Proof of God

The Bible only tells half the story, that of the material world. The Gnostic scriptures tell the rest.

"I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?" John 3:12

Because the Gnostic scriptures are not accepted as canon, until you review the evidence within the Amen Code, you as well as many others, may find it difficult to believe the statements that follow:

Jesus" teachings in the Gnostic scriptures specifically, the Sophia (Wisdom) of Jesus Christ and the Pistis Sophia, are required to reveal and confirm the mysteries and hidden messages within the Bible.

The codes within the Gnostic scriptures enable the creation of a numerical representative of New Jerusalem as outlined in Revelation 21.

The numerical creation and confirmation of New Jerusalem in turn confirms Jesus" Biblical and Gnostic testimony, thereby his existence and ascendance.

EVIDENCE OVERVIEW
The numerical New Jerusalem, in scientific terms is a Dimensional Plot Chart that makes use of Einstein's Unified Field Theory (string theory); with each unified field cell representative of a number. Construction of the Dimensional Plot Chart is based on Jesus' Gnostic Teachings and the codes within the Gnostic Scriptures.

The alpha to numeric conversion of the names of the twelve tribes of Israel and Jesus' twelve Apostles are used to confirm the numbers on the walls and gates of numerical New Jerusalem, as detailed in Revelation 21:12-14.

The names for the twelve tribes of Israel and the twelve Apostles are converted with use of a new alpha to numeric conversion system similar to the Hebrew gematria system. This new system makes use of the decipherment key of Revelation 13:11-18, the name and number of name of the 666 Beast.

Reverse engineering of the process used to construct New Jerusalem's Dimensional Plot Chart reveals the Heavens and the Realms of Hades and is confirmed by Jesus' scared Gnostic teachings.

After the evidence is provided and mathematically confirmed, the biblical codes that reveal the plan for global economic and social security are decoded and confirmed.

Then, Plan 360 " Global Economic and Social Security, is outlined based on the divine plan.

DISCOURSE OVERVIEW
The Amen Code is a scientific and metaphysic discourse, with more than 174 charts and graphics. Yet, anyone with basic understanding of the English language and elementary math skills can comprehend the cipher matrixes, and charts.

AUTHOR
"In 2008 I had an experience that changed my life. I set out to prove why we should love ourselves, to make the case for systemic social and economic change... I asked God for Proof of Love.

The request was answered with the evidence presented in the book the Amen Code.
But the evidence came with a price -- temporary madness.

After four years of fact checking the evidence, my quest is to share the information revealed."

The story is true. The evidence is real.

Title:Amen Code - Mathematical Proof of the Existence of God, Multiple Dimensions and Parallel Universes.

Review the Evidence then vote (free pdf document):
Author:W. Iamwe Ph.D.
Genre:Non-Fiction - Pages: 500; Word Count: 128,548
Manuscript:http://1drv.ms... (Microsoft One Drive Virus and Ad Free)
clmcd42

Con

Firstly, I would like to point out to anybody reading this, that he plagiarized that entire argument (1). Secondly, my stance on this issue will be that a book cannot be evidence for anything. I doubt that the Bible is actually a code, however, even if it was, anybody can write a work of complete fiction that contains a hidden code in it that you can decipher using another document. It's pretty simple, and does not prove anything.

Since you plaigiarized your entire argument so far, I will wait for you to respond in your own words to what I have just stated, and then we will take it from there.

(1) http://houston.craigslist.org...
Debate Round No. 1
WIamwe

Pro

What you term plagiarized, is the review and quoting of sources, which most academics make use of when analyzing statements to confirm or disprove them. The book is over 500 pages, and requires the resource material within it, unless you would prefer to separately look up every reference mentioned by the author. Should he have just stated look up Revelation 13:11? Or should the quote be within the text? So you can continue reading without interruption?

If Jesus was indeed the son of God, and states he came from the father, who resides in the Heavens, then to prove Jesus' statements are indeed true, we must examine the evidence he provides. Not only in the Bible, but also in his Gnostic teachings.

Secondly, it is obvious you have not examined the evidence within the Amen Code. Nor the mathematics used, nor the logic within it, nor the Dimensional Charts. Your debate thus far is purely emotional and reactionary.

Third, the book is not the evidence. The evidence is the proving or disproving of what Jesus and the writers of the Bible and the Gnostic codes stated.

Example: Revelations 21 states, New Jerusalem comes from the Heavens. The names of the twelve Apostles and the twelve tribes are given. And said to be on the walls and gates. We are also given the name and number of name of the beast, and told that, "This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number..." Revelation 13:18

Thus, only one with insight and wisdom will be able to calculate the beast.
This statement within the Bible is a direct challenge.
And, infers there is more to the Bible than what is being read. i.e. a mystery.

This code, once solved enables us to calculate the names and number of name, for all words.
Therefore the names and number of name for the twelve apostles and tribes of Israel, should, be found on New Jerusalem when converted to, "numbers."

Fourthly, to address your statement: "anybody can write a work of complete fiction that contains a hidden code in it that you can decipher using another document."

A work is fiction until it is proven to be true. In this case, mathematics is used to confirm Jesus' teachings.
Once you examine the math, then we may have a debate.

So far you have commented without addressing the mathematical evidence presented in the book.
Please addressing the following, if you wish to disprove the evidence provided and continue this debate:
The Dimensional Plot Chart build progression
The Existence and Conscious Level Calculator
The 24th State of the Dimensional Plot Chart (Which creates New Jerusalem)
The deciphered 666 Code
The Name Count Calculator
The conversion of the names of the twelve apostles and twelve tribes of Israel.
The Dimensional Plot charts of the Heavens, death, and Hades
The Treasury of Light
clmcd42

Con

"we must examine the evidence he provides. Not only in the Bible, but also in his Gnostic teachings."

As I have already stated, the Bible and Gnostic teachings are not evidence of anything.

"Secondly, it is obvious you have not examined the evidence within the Amen Code."

I don't think you quite understand how a debate works. In a debate, you do not come to the table and say "Read this 500 page book and then come back and argue it with me." In a debate, you provide evidence, and cite sources to back it up. Your source can be this book, as long as you can provide a link to it and cite a page number, instead of the whole 500 page book. The reason I have not "examined the evidence" is because you have not provided any.

"Your debate thus far is purely emotional and reactionary."

Your debate before this rebuttal was completely plaigiarized and didn't even provide any evidence, it just asserted things. Actually, now that I think about it, you're just asserting things now, too.

"The evidence is the proving or disproving of what Jesus and the writers of the Bible and the Gnostic codes stated."

Alright, then give me the evidence. Still haven't seen you do that, yet.

"The names of the twelve Apostles and the twelve tribes are given."

I don't know what version you're using, but it is certainly not given in any version I can find.

"In this case, mathematics is used to confirm Jesus' teachings. Once you examine the math, then we may have a debate."

Then let's see some equations, shall we?

And as for all those things that you have told me to address, when I read Revelation 21, I do not see any of them. Please show evidence of them, and then I will address them.
Debate Round No. 2
WIamwe

Pro

I can see you do not want to debate the issue, and refuse to read the content in the book to engage in a logical debate of the evidence. You want a one page summary of God, if proving god was easy it would have already been done.

The evidence listed in the Amen Code is Mathematical Proof as stated in the initial debate, which you should have read prior to accepting this challenge. As i stated, "Because the Gnostic scriptures are not accepted as canon, until you review the evidence within the Amen Code, you as well as many others, may find it difficult to believe the statements that follow:"

1) You state: The Bible and Gnostic teaching are not evidence of anything.
My Response - if they are proven to be true, then they are evidence. Link to evidence: http://1drv.ms... pages 12 to 313

2) In a debate, you provide evidence, and cite sources...
Resp - Retyping the text here (which is too long) is no different than you reading the free book which i have provided the link to: http://1drv.ms... pages 12 to 313
If I had the ability to type 200+ pages here i would paste all the evidence -- I can not because of the space limitations.

3) as long as you can provide a link to it and cite a page number
Res: The following are the evidence and page numbers (Link:http://1drv.ms...)
EIGHTH REALM REQUIREMENT15
THE EIGHT (8TH)15
REVELATION PROCESS17
EVIDENCE | OVERVIEW AND CHARTS18
CHART INTERACTIVITY OVERVIEW18
EXISTENCE AND CONSCIOUS LEVEL CHART (ECLC)20
DIMENSIONAL PLOT CHART (DPC)21
DIMENSIONAL PLOT CHART PROGRESSION22
QUALITY LEVEL INTERSECTION QUADRANT GRID | PATTERN DETECTOR CHART (QL IQ)25
THE DIVINE REALM CHART26
THE DEATH REALMS CHARTS27
THE 9TH GATE | MULTI " UNIVERSE DIMENSION PLOT CHART28
MULTI-UNIVERSE DIMENSIONAL CONFIRMATIONS CHARTS29
TREASURE OF LIGHT/TREE OF LIFE AND DIMENSIONAL UNIVERSE COMPARISON CHARTS30
MULTI-DIMENSIONAL ASTROLOGICAL CIPHER31
DECODING REVELATION | PROOF OF GOD - NEW JERUSALEM33
SECTION 1 | MATHEMATICAL PROOF OF THE EXISTENCE OF GOD51
EVIDENCE | PRESENTATION ORDER AND EVIDENCE TOOLS52
PRESENTATION ORDER52
EVIDENCE MEASUREMENT TOOLS53
NEW JERUSALEM " NUMERICAL REPLICA53
BASE FOUNDATIONAL ELEMENTS OF EXISTENCE53
GNOSTIC SCRIPTURES53
DIMENSIONAL PLOT CHARTS (DPC)54
NUMBER PERFECTION58
NEGATIVE NUMBERS60
THE BIBLICAL CIPHER " NAME DECODING KEY60
PROOF | EVIDENCE SET I61
NEW JERUSALEM61
NEW JERUSALEM EVIDENCE OUTLINE63
NEW JERUSALEM CONSTRUCTION PROCESS64
DIMENSIONAL PLOT CHART CONSTRUCTION OUTLINE65
EXISTENCE AND CONSCIOUS LEVEL CALCULATOR (ECLC)65
BASE FOUNDATIONAL ELEMENTS OF CREATION66
QUALITY LEVEL VALUES67
CONSTRUCTION OF CONSCIOUS LEVELS67
(-3)HVD AND EXISTENCE75
DIMENSIONAL PLOT CHART BUILD OUT SEQUENCE76
IQ LEVEL GRID78
THE MATERIAL STATE79
UNIFIED FIELD THEORY80
TERMINOLOGY | DEFINING THE REALM OF EXISTENCE81
HORIZONTAL VERTICAL AND DIAGONAL (HVD)82
OUTLAND82
PLANE REGIONS | 10 DIMENSIONS83
THE HEAVENLY REALM - NEGACY84
SPIRIT INDICATOR84
DIMENSIONAL PLOT CHART PROGRESSION85
QUALITY LEVEL VALUE 185
QUALITY LEVEL VALUE 2 AND 385
QUALITY LEVEL VALUE 487
QUALITY LEVEL VALUE 588
QUALITY LEVEL VALUE 689
QUALITY LEVEL VALUE 790
QUALITY LEVEL VALUE 891
THE CROSSROADS AND DEATH PROCESS93
CONSCIOUS QUALITY LEVEL VALUE 994
CONSCIOUS QUALITY LEVEL VALUE 2096
CONSCIOUS QUALITY LEVEL VALUE 2198
CONSCIOUS QUALITY LEVEL VALUE 24101
DIMENSIONAL PLOT CHART 24104
PROOF | EVIDENCE SET II105
THE DECIPHERMENT KEY - COMMAND OF THE NUMBERS105
DECODING THE NAME AND MARK OF THE BEAST106
NAME COUNT CALCULATOR106
BEAST CIPHER106
DECIPHERMENT OF THE CODES TO CALCULATE THE BEAST107
CALCULATE THE BEAST108
THE BEAST IS THE KEY109
PROOF | EVIDENCE SET III110
PLOTTING THE WALL AND GATES OF NEW JERUSALEM110
CODE 4 - TWELVE FOUNDATIONS111
FOUNDATION WALL COUNT111
CODE 5 " NAMES OF 12 APOSTLES112
12 APOSTLES NAME COUNT112
CODE 2 " NAMES OF THE 12 TRIBES OF ISRAEL115
12 TRIBES OF ISRAEL115
THE SECOND 12 TRIBES OF ISRAEL116
THE SERVANTS OF GOD117
CODE 1B ANGELS AT THE GATES119
DETERMINING THE IQ LEVEL OF ANGELS120
THE MARK OF THE BEAST122
CONSCIOUS QUALITY LEVEL 21123
CONFIRMATION OF THE GATES" NUMBER - 74124
CODES 6 AND 3 " SQUARE OF THE DIRECTIONAL GATES125
NUMBER OF NAME COUNT TOTALS127
888 CODE128
IMMANUEL 888 NEW JERUSALEM PORTAL128
THE PYRAMID CONNECTION131
PROOF | EVIDENCE SET IV134
THE LOGIC BEHIND THE VEILS AND HEAVENS134
THE VEIL136
DIVINE REALM CONSCIOUS LEVELS138
CONSCIOUS QUALITY LEVEL 25138
CONSCIOUS QUALITY LEVEL 26140
DIVINE REALMS DIMENSION PLOT CHART CONSTRUCTION141
QUALITY LEVEL VALUE PLANE REGION OF THE DIVINE REALMS (DPC BOARDERS)142
NEGATIVE AND POSITIVE, OPPOSITES AND PARALLEL REALM PRINCIPLE145
DIVINE REALM DIMENSIONAL PLOT CHARTS (NEGATIVE STATE)146
DEATH REALM DIMENSIONAL PLOT CHARTS (NEGATIVE STATE)147
DEATH REALMS DIMENSIONAL PLOT CHARTS (POSITIVE STATE)148
NEGATIVE THREE (-3)HVD SURVEY MARKER LOGIC:149
NINTH GATE150
NEGATIVE AND POSITIVE DIVINE REALM (-3)HVD CROSSINGS150
DIVINE REALM CROSSING (-3)HVD: NEGATIVE TWELVE (-12) 152
DIVINE REALMS CHART OUTLINE155
DIVINE REALM SECTIONAL LAYOUT156
DIVINE REALMS CROSSROADS157
DIVINE REALM REBIRTH AND FALLEN REGIONS158
DIVINE AND DEATH REALM BORDER CORNERSTONES159
DIVINE CORNERSTONE160
DIVINE REALM CORNERSTONE 4161
DEATH REALMS CHART OUTLINE162
DEATH REALM"S 100 PORTAL NUMBER WITHIN THE DIVINE REALM164
DEATH REALM CROSSROADS165
DEATH REALM " DEAD MAN166
CORNERSTONE OF DEATH167
THE DEATH FLIP168
DEATH REALMS" CORE NEGATIVE AND POSITIVE 4169
DEATH REALM - VALLEY OF THE CIAL171
NON-BELIEVER IQS172
BELIEVER VERSES NON BELIEVE INTERSECTION QUADRANTS (IQ)173
NON-BELIEVER REALM " CONSCIOUS LEVEL 15, CORE IQ 54174
NON-BELIEVER REALM DIMENSIONAL PLOT CHARTS175
NON BELIEVER " CONSCIOUS QUALITY LEVEL 18 " CORE IQ 66176
BELIEVER CROSSROADS177
REALM COMPARISON CHARTS179
DIVINE PORTALS181
DIVINE REALM PORTAL181
DEATH REALM 74X12; 888 PORTALS (5 ENFORCED)182
HOLY CITY PORTALS183
PORTAL COMPARISON185
DEATH AND HADES187
THE DIVINE PROCESS190
PLOT CHART INVERSE - THE DEATH FLIP190
FALL FROM AND RETURN TO THE HEAVENS192
GOD"S 12 TRIBES VERSES MOSES" 12 TRIBES196
THE FIRST BEAST198
EYE OF THE NEEDLE199
9TH GATE - CHARTING THE KINGDOMS AND THE HEAVENS (THE MULTIVERSE)203
ASSUMPTION SET FOR PROOF OF MULTIPLE UNIVERSE STABILITY204
KINGDOM 6 - QLV 6204
KINGDOM 7 QLV 7206
KINGDOM 7 UFP QLV 7207
KINGDOM 7 QLV 8208
KINGDOM 9 QLV 9210
THE FABRIC OF EXISTENCE- UNIFIED FIELD PLANES UFP211
UFP CROSSING211
UNIFIED FIELD PLANE (UFP) GATEWAY AND PORTAL CONNECTION MARKERS212
COORDINATES OF THE KINGDOMS212
THE SOPHIA OF JESUS CHRIST - ABSTRACT: AEON214
KINGDOMS (-1) AND 15215
KINGDOMS 1 AND 13217
PLOTTING KINGDOM 8 AND 6218
DIVINE TRI-BI219
CONSCIOUS DEATH220
THE MULTIVERSE223
TREASURY OF LIGHT225
7TH KINGDOM - PORTAL " THE MIDST227
PISTIS SOPHIA - CHAPTER 86230
THE EIGHTH234
REVELATION OF THE EIGHTH REALM235
SHADOW OF DEATH237
THE ASCENSION AND CONSUMMATION OF THE TREASURY240
GOD"S TREASURY240
15 HELPERS AND 7 VIRGINS241

3) Your debate before this rebuttal was completely plaigiarized and didn't even provide any evidence, it just asserted things
Resp - I posted the Houston craigslisting ad to offer the ebook free to the Houston market you have cited as plaigiarized.
I offer the book free in different markets each week.
I can not plagiarize my own writing.
3b - Resp I stated what the evidence was and where it could be found.

4) Alright, then give me the evidence. Still haven't seen you do that, yet.
Resp the link was provided in the initial debate and once again now: SEE LINK HERE: http://1drv.ms...
pages 12 to 313

5)"The names of the twelve Apostles and the twelve tribes are given."
I don't know what version you're using, but it is certainly not given in any version I can find.

RESP- You have never read your Bible if you do not know the names of the 12 Apostles and Tribes.
I am out of character space so i will provide ...
clmcd42

Con

"I can see you do not want to debate the issue, and refuse to read the content in the book to engage in a logical debate of the evidence."

That's not how one provides proper evidence in a debate.

"if they are proven to be true, then they are evidence."

Correct. And from what I can gather from the very little evidence that you have provided, you're trying to use them to prove themselves true. That's circular logic, and does not apply.

"If I had the ability to type 200+ pages here i would paste all the evidence"

You don't need to paste all the evidence, what you need to do is give some evidence, wait for me to respond, and then give evidence to refute what I say.

"The following are the evidence and page numbers"

That's not evidence. You've probably just pasted in the table of contents. You actually have to tell me the evidence in a debate.

"I can not plagiarize my own writing."

At the moment, I cannot know for sure that you are the actual author of this book. Even if you are, it could still be plagiarism. Plaigiarism is about representing work as though it were new, original work. Self-plaigiarism is unethical and intellectually dishonest. Wikipedia says a common form of plaigiarism is "
Taking passages from their own previous work without adding citations." (1).

"I stated what the evidence was and where it could be found."

Actually, no, you stated a general name for a subtopic of a book, and a page number. You actually have to give real evidence inside a debate in order to have a debate, and you cannot expect your opponent to go and read 300 pages that you cite as your evidence, without actually giving the evidence. That is simply not how a debate works.

"You have never read your Bible if you do not know the names of the 12 Apostles and Tribes. I am out of character space so i will provide"

I know the names of the 12 Apostles and Tribes. The original context of your quote was somehow stating that the names of the Apostles were being given in Revelation 21, and they are not given.

(1) http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 3
WIamwe

Pro

Metrology is defined by the International Bureau of Weights and Measures (BIPM) as "the science of measurement, embracing both experimental and theoretical determinations at any level of uncertainty in any field of science and technology."
Under the authority of the Metric Convention, the BIPM helps to ensure uniformity of SI weights and measures around the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Metrology - in a case to prove the existence of God is not the standard for measure.
Man is imperfect. Man's science is imperfect. Man's science and technological innovations, though some are useful, harm the earth, its people and is destructive to the environment.
Man still commits war against their brothers, subjugates women, and other races. Man cannot be judge of God's existence or in-existence with their own inaccurate measuring tools and their destructive standards, policy, laws, etc...

Numbers and Jesus' Testimony are used.
Image: http://www.debate.org...

Jesus claims that he is the only one that has seen God.
"...grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known." John 1:17-18

Therefore if one is to prove God, Jesus' standard is the measure -- not man's.
Thus, one must determine if Jesus' statements are truth and factual. If his testimony can be proved factual, then Jesus' testimony is the standard for determining the Existence of God. (You can think of it as the initial hypothesis that one must prove or disprove.)

The Standard for measure is proof of New Jerusalem as Jesus states through John -- (Rev 1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John...), New Jerusalem will descend from the Heavens:

THEN I SAW A NEW HEAVEN AND A NEW EARTH, FOR THE FIRST HEAVEN AND THE FIRST EARTH HAD PASSED AWAY, AND THERE WAS NO LONGER ANY SEA. I SAW THE HOLY CITY, THE NEW JERUSALEM, COMING DOWN OUT OF HEAVEN FROM GOD... REVELATION 21:1-2

Thus one must prove New Jerusalem exists, and that it can descend from the Heavens. To do so one must also provide proof of the Heavens.

Science (from Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge"[1]) is a systematic enterprise that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about nature and the universe.[nb 1] In an older and closely related meaning, "science" also refers to a body of knowledge itself, of the type that can be rationally explained and reliably applied.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Proof
n.noun
The evidence or argument that compels the mind to accept an assertion as true.
The validation of a proposition by application of specified rules, as of induction or deduction, to assumptions, axioms, and sequentially derived conclusions.
A statement or argument used in such a validation.
Convincing or persuasive demonstration.

Based on these definitions, the math and logic used to build numerical New Jerusalem is sound, as it makes use of knowledge organized in both the Bible and the Gnostic Codes.

The knowledge can be rationally explained as outlined in the Amen Code, source: Amen Code" Pages 12--131; and summarized in the following chart images.

Note: I am unable to copy and paste images from the debate.org album to this argument. I have therefore provided the links to the images in the debate.org album:

IMAGES
Codes within Revelation 21 - For the Construction of New Jerusalem
http://www.debate.org...

Numerical New Jerusalem
http://www.debate.org...

12 Apostles:
http://www.debate.org...

Plotting the 12 Apostles on the wall of numerical New Jerusalem:
http://www.debate.org...

12 Tribes of Israel:
http://www.debate.org...

Plotting the 12 Tribes of Israel on the gates of numerical New Jerusalem:
http://www.debate.org...
...

The Predictive Method
My predictive method reversed the construction process used to create numerical New Jerusalem, the result revealed the Heavens New Jerusalem descends from.

The reverse engineering of the process to construct numerical New Jerusalem, resulted in the creation of numerical representatives of the Heavens, Death, and Hades (Source: Amen Code - Pages 134-313 http://1drv.ms... ) and where confirmed by Jesus' Gnostic Teachings.

Images:
HEAVENS
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

DEATH REALMS
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

HADES
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

Further, the 9th Gate Multiverse spreadsheet makes use of a predictive model to establish and confirm multiple universes based on the Dimensional Plot Chart used to construct New Jerusalem, and are confirmed by the Gnostic Scriptures
Source: Amen Code - Pages 203-313 http://1drv.ms...

I predicted, if New Jerusalem could descend to the earth from the Heavens, the same method must also reveal other universes.

Images:
Multiple Universes Predictive Model:
http://www.debate.org...

Confirmation Chart based on the Gnostic Scriptures.
http://www.debate.org...

Dearest Con,
I have provided you with images that resulted from the numerical data, which serves as evidence. I hope you will now be able to engage in a debate, but fear you will still have to review the information in the Amen Code. With out your review of each detail of the evidence, how can you logically defend your position against the evidence.

If you require additional information I will do my best to provided it, but first you must be informed about what you are arguing against, and there is much that must be reviewed. The entire Amend Code is my argument and my defense.

Further, The Dimensional Plot Chart that enables the creation of New Jerusalem (image below), requires knowledge of the Eighth.

""Whoever, then, knows the Father in pure knowledge will depart to the Father and repose in
Unbegotten Father. But whoever knows him defectively will depart to the defect and the rest of the Eighth.
Now whoever knows Immortal Spirit of Light in silence, through reflecting and consent in the truth,
let him bring me signs of the Invisible One, and he will become a light in the Spirit of Silence.
Whoever knows Son of Man in knowledge and love, let him bring me a sign of Son of Man,
that he might depart to the dwelling-places with those in the Eighth"

The Sophia of Jesus Christ -- Paragraph 46
Gnostic Codex of The Nag Hammadi Library

IMAGE
http://www.debate.org...

I do not believe you have acquired enough knowledge about the subject matter at this time to debate this issue with me.
As both parties must be informed about the matter in question.
clmcd42

Con

"Man cannot be judge of God's existence or in-existence with their own inaccurate measuring tools and their destructive standards, policy, laws, etc..."

I agree, we cannot know 100% either way of God's existence, due to the God Hypothesis being unfalsifiable. However, lack of evidence leads us to believe that it is an unreasonable faith to have.

"Thus, one must determine if Jesus' statements are truth and factual. If his testimony can be proved factual, then Jesus' testimony is the standard for determining the Existence of God."

I agree, if you could prove that everything that Jesus has said is true, then God must exist. I think the part that we will disagree on is the proof behind what he has said.

"as Jesus states through John"

I don't see any evidence that Jesus stated it through John. This is not a mathematical proof at all. A mere testimonial is not enough evidence to prove the existence of a supernatural deity.

"the math and logic used to build numerical New Jerusalem is sound"

You have not provided any math or logic, or even attempted to explain what a "numerical New Jerusalem" is.

Now, as for all those pictures that you have provided:

That's not mathematical proof. You simply created a 3D model and labelled it with numbers randomly. There is no evidence for any of this stuff that you are asserting, such as how you "reverse engineered" a false Jerusalem that doesn't exist.
Debate Round No. 4
WIamwe

Pro

CON 1)That's not mathematical proof. You simply created a 3D model and labelled it with numbers randomly. There is no evidence for any of this stuff that you are asserting, such as how you "reverse engineered" a false Jerusalem that doesn't exist.

RESP:
First, the numbers are not randomly placed on the Dimensional Plot Chart. The Dimensional Plot Chart was built based on a 24 step process, outlined in the Amen Code.

You still refuse to read the proof which enables the creation of the "3D model", thus your statement is simply opinion.
You stated previously, "In a debate, you provide evidence, and cite sources to back it up. Your source can be this book, as long as you can provide a link to it and cite a page number,"

I have provided you with the page numbers, the link to the sources, and the resulting data that was created by it.
If you do not view the sources, how do you know what I have cited is a factual source, and accurately representative of the source statement, evidence, and conclusions; or if it was taken out of context.
(If you respond without reading the source documents, your statements can not be trusted, because you are not informed, nor can you verify if the source is "good")

CON 2)You have not provided any math or logic, or even attempted to explain what a "numerical New Jerusalem" is.

RESP:
As stated previously, the evidence is 200 plus pages of logic.
The initial statement was, "There is Mathematical Proof of God."
A 3D model, charts, and sources were provided that my opponent refuses to review for his personal edification nor reviews to validate or disprove my claim.

Further, my initial claim was that one would have to review the evidence in the Amen Code, or they would find it difficult to believe the statements that follow:
"The numerical New Jerusalem, in scientific terms is a Dimensional Plot Chart that makes use of Einstein's Unified Field Theory (string theory); with each unified field cell representative of a number. Construction of the Dimensional Plot Chart is based on Jesus' Gnostic Teachings and the codes within the Gnostic Scriptures.
"The alpha to numeric conversion of the names of the twelve tribes of Israel and Jesus' twelve Apostles are used to confirm the numbers on the walls and gates of numerical New Jerusalem, as detailed in Revelation 21:12-14.
"The names for the twelve tribes of Israel and the twelve Apostles are converted with use of a new alpha to numeric conversion system similar to the Hebrew gematria system. This new system makes use of the decipherment key of Revelation 13:11-18, the name and number of name of the 666 Beast.
"Reverse engineering of the process used to construct New Jerusalem's Dimensional Plot Chart reveals the Heavens and the Realms of Hades and is confirmed by Jesus' scared Gnostic teachings.
"After the evidence is provided and mathematically confirmed, the biblical codes that reveal the plan for global economic and social security are decoded and confirmed.
"Then, Plan 360 " Global Economic and Social Security, is outlined based on the divine plan

My opponent did not review the Amen Code, and per my initial claim, does not believe the evidence within the Amen Code.
Thus, my initial claim is correct.

Because people do not read the Bible nor the Gnostic Scriptures for themselves, and rely upon a preacher or pastor to tell them what is in the documents, and rely on someone else to interpret the scriptures for them (as my opponent wished me to do for him) misinformation regarding the true message within the scriptures abounds.

God intended us to read the words within the Bible for ourselves, and to reflect on the message within it. In other words, God expects us to think:
"When you see "the abomination that causes desolation" standing where it does not belong"let the reader understand"then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Mark 13:14 (NIV)

Knowledge is required to learn the truth about God. One obtains knowledge not just from watching documentaries and television, but by reading and analyzing.
""Whoever, then, knows the Father in pure knowledge will depart to the Father and repose in
Unbegotten Father. But whoever knows him defectively will depart to the defect and the rest of the Eighth. Now whoever knows Immortal Spirit of Light in silence, through reflecting and consent in the truth, let him bring me signs of the Invisible One, and he will become a light in the Spirit of Silence. Whoever knows Son of Man in knowledge and love, let him bring me a sign of Son of Man, that he might depart to the dwelling-places with those in the Eighth"
The Sophia of Jesus Christ -- Paragraph 46
Gnostic Codex of The Nag Hammadi Library

If you do not read things for yourself you are reliant on another"s interpretation of what things mean.
And can be lead astray.

Unlike my opponent, I hope you will read the evidence for yourself, and make your own decision about what the evidence states.
I will be available should you have any questions regarding the evidence within the Amen Code, and will appreciate you detailing an error should you find one. You can email or friend me.

My opponent has not refuted my initial claims, he refused to read the evidence, which results in his disbelief.

The complexity of the information and the knowledge required to provide the evidence, is not suited for a debate here.
And requires one that is willing to debate the subjects within the book, evidence set by evidence set.

To debate the proof here, under the conditions my opponent wished to set, does not yield truth nor enables discovery.
Debates are for show and entertainment, books get into the fine details.
And, allows one to review all evidence so one can make an informed decision about what is truth, fiction or factual.

As stated previously, in my initial claim:
The story is true. The evidence is real.
...
Review the Evidence then vote (free ebook, format: pdf document).
Manuscript: http://1drv.ms... (Microsoft One Drive Virus and Ad Free)
The link to the free ebook will be live for the duration of the voting period, so you can examine the evidence for yourself.

Finally:
My opponent may state that I have provided no evidence, but indeed I have.
Those who do not read the Bible nor the Gnostic Codes can not possibly understand nor believe what Jesus states.
My opponent was given sources with page numbers which he did not review.
My opponent wished me to minimize the proof, which would have resulted in inaccurate information and understanding; and invalidate my claims.
In my opening claim I stated, "until you review the evidence within the Amen Code, you as well as many others, may find it difficult to believe the statements that follow:" The statements that followed are not believed by my opponent because he did not read the book "
My opponent did not read the book, as a result does not believe
I rest my case.

I look forward to a civil debate with someone that has read the evidence.
clmcd42

Con

"You still refuse to read the proof which enables the creation of the "3D model", thus your statement is simply opinion."

I have drawn that conclusion based on the evidence that you have given me in this debate.

"I have provided you with the page numbers, the link to the sources, and the resulting data that was created by it."

When you cite something, you still have to provide the evidence (1). I am currently informed with whatever information you have given to me in the debate, and at this point, it seems as though you have created a cube of random numbers, invented a code from the Gnostic gospels, put it into a few select Bible verses, and asserted that you have mathematically proven that God exists.

Let's say you're right. There's a new Jerusalem, and it did exactly what Revelations 21 described. This would not confirm all of Jesus's testimony, but merely Revelations 21. It would, however, be fairly strong evidence that would convince a lot of people, but it would still fall short of being a "mathematical proof".

"Because people do not read the Bible nor the Gnostic Scriptures for themselves, and rely upon a preacher or pastor to tell them what is in the documents, and rely on someone else to interpret the scriptures for them (as my opponent wished me to do for him) misinformation regarding the true message within the scriptures abounds."

Personally, I have read the entire Bible, and I know many people, Christian or otherwise that have. I find it to be boring read, although some of the stories are interesting. I did not wish you to interpret that Bible "for me", but rather, I wished to hear your own interpretation of it, as there are very many different interpretations that exist of the same exact book. Perhaps this indicates an inability to write clearly and undeniably.

"My opponent has not refuted my initial claims, he refused to read the evidence, which results in his disbelief."

I have read and refuted all evidence that you have provided in this debate. Unfortunately, there has been a dire drought of any sort of evidence that backs up your original claim in this debate.

"The complexity of the information and the knowledge required to provide the evidence, is not suited for a debate here."

Then why are you debating it here?

Even if there was abstract mathematical proof that a deity exists, it wouldn't be able to prove the Christian god. It would probably be one of the thousands of other gods. If there truly is mathematical proof that a god exists, you would have simply dropped the Bible nonsense and provided the actual mathematical proof that your secret code unlocked. Unfortunately, you appear to be deluding yourself with false hopes of evidence of an unfalsifiable supreme overlord.

"My opponent wished me to minimize the proof, which would have resulted in inaccurate information and understanding; and invalidate my claims."

No, I wished you to provide at your proof, but you refused on the grounds of you needed 300 pages to provide any proof. Why would you get on here and debate this, if you are incapable of providing a still-viable shortened version of any type of evidence? It simply does not make sense, and I would encourage you to be ready to provide proof/evidence (in the debate) before going into any future debates.

In short, Pro has simply given links to a 300+ page book, and told me to read it before debating him, despite the standard of debates being that one must actually provide evidence in the debate itself. He has refused to provide any sort of actual evidence in the debate, stating things along the lines of "you need to read the book first". Unfortunately, that is not the way debates work.

In the meantime, I wish you the best, and would encourage you to work on your debating skills. Your "proof" may appeal more to people who already believe in God, because people who already believe he exists and seek affirmation of that will find evidence where there is none to be found.

(1) http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 5
27 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by WIamwe 2 years ago
WIamwe
Side note - it took me 6 years to unravel the mysteries within the Gnostic and Biblical Scriptures.
Jesus trained his disciples in 11 years:
~It came to pass, when Jesus had risen from the dead, that he passed eleven years discoursing with his disciples, and instructing them only up to the regions of the First Commandment and up to the regions of the First Mystery, that within the Veil, within the First Commandment, which is the four-and-twentieth mystery without and below--those [four-and-twenty] which are in the second space of the First Mystery which is before all mysteries,--the Father in the form of a dove...
PISTIS SOPHIA - - GNOSTIC CODEX CHAPTER 1

So, I don't expect you all to understand this information in one debate, and a few comments
Posted by WIamwe 2 years ago
WIamwe
If you break a natural law there is an effect.
If you over eat you will be fat
If you jump in the air you will fall down.
Who or what has control of these things?

Most men that refuse to acknowledge God; refuse to acknowledge that there is something greater than self. Yet both are a fact.
You must obey certain natural laws and you did not create self, nor did the first man upon the earth create self.

May be it is fear, among those we reject God, that if they acknowledge him, they will have to acknowledge they are wrong.
They will have to change what they do
They will have to do that which is right.
I do hope you will review the evidence within the Amen Code with an open heart and mind.
If one refutes knowledge outright, prior to knowledge of each step of the process one will never learn what can be created, or what the knowledge could yield.
Posted by WIamwe 2 years ago
WIamwe
Mr. Kal, to address the rest of your comment.
Kay: "What you ended up only doing is took scientific theories and placed bible verses you thought most associated with them. Again this is not math it is numerology.

Resp: Please tell me truthfully. Up to what page have you read?
As it seems you have not read the Amen Code Proof through to page 387 (but wish to educate me), thus you also comment without full knowledge of the matter.

The difference between mathematics and numerology -- Source Quoted from: The Mathematics Blog:
Both numerologists and mathematicians study identities like 22+32+52+72+112+132+172=666.
A mathematician would notice that this is the sum of the first seven primes and rewrite the sum as
W21;k=17pk=666. A numerologist would immediately notice that 666 is the number of "The Beast",

I believe both to be symbols that represent a meaning. In science W21;k is a man-made symbol for the "Educated".
Others associate it with the material world they understand and know.
Yet still the number is 666.

Further, the numerical evidence stands alone without scripture (i.e3d models) - however, to reveal the heavens, which the Amen Code does, the math (the building up of numbers in logical sequential order) is associated with biblical text.

If numbers are perfect. If God is perfect, then it should be numbers that can prove the existence of God.

Kal: "Then around page 40 of the book it completely goes off topic of any relation to math what so ever.
Resp: Page 40 is the introduction, prior is need to know. The Proof begins on page 51.

Account is also considered to be math - yet if one takes the numbers out of context (or the man made law of what is legal) one goes to jail, thus there are parameters.

The Bible and the Gnostic Codes are the Laws for the numbers, added together, step by step, levels 1 to 24, to construct numerical New Jerusalem. And the numbers added together to determine the name and number of name for the 6
Posted by WIamwe 2 years ago
WIamwe
SNP1,
My point exactly. My opponent did not do his research. As I have stated numerous times, debate.org is not a place for serious debates for complex issues.

Quote: "SNP1: I mean, looking at this debate of yours, you wouldn't stand a chance in a live debate."

In a live debate - my opponent would have read the material (prior to the debate) and we could have debated this issue.
SNP1 - You have recommend that I reference debates, therefore I recommend you watch the following debate, where a Creationist's theory is the issue being debated:

Creationism Vs Evolution Debate Ken Ham And Bill Nye 2014

My Ham's model is being debated, and his opponent Bill Nye, has actually read my Ham's creationist material, and is able to debate based on the topic at hand.

You wish me to debate in a manner that minimize the evidence.
In the real world things are not proven to be factual based on the parameters you wish to set (institutionalized instruction) .

In the real world, in people to people discourse, real evidence is not proven in the manner you wish to impose here.

This is a real world debate - about a very important matter.
Posted by WIamwe 2 years ago
WIamwe
Mr. Kal, you have made a statement regarding the proof in the Amen code up to page 40. Everything up to page 40 is the introduction, and insight -- thus personal opinion. The mathematical proof begins on page 51.

Table of Content:
INTRODUCTION | INSIGHT40
THE CURSE CAUSE AND CURE40
THE BIBLE WAS CODED FOR A REASON42
DO WE TRULY KNOW GOD43
IS BELIEF IN GOD ENOUGH44
KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL45
THE CORRUPTION OF RELIGION46
TESTING GOD47
MATHEMATICAL ARGUMENT OF EXISTENCE47
SECTION 1 | MATHEMATICAL PROOF OF THE EXISTENCE OF GOD51

I do appreciate that you state i make some good points. Thank you.
Yet, still, what you are quoting is in the introduction, which is prior to the proof.

My intro equation states:
MATHEMATICAL ARGUMENT OF EXISTENCE
a)If zero is set to nothing/nonexistent;
and, 1 is set to existence;
b)Then 0 and 1 are required to calculate your current state of being.
The calculation for your current state is 0+1 = 1
c)Zero must be used because we know it to be a fact that you did not preexist your physical existence in a known physical form " and were birthed into the world.
d)Likewise when you die, we know that you have a physical form you can no longer control and likely cannot and do not exist in.
e)Yet, we only know that you do not affect the physical world when you are dead
Which would calculate as: 0 +1 +0
The result is positive one. 0+1 + 0 = +1 (the result is you still exist)
f)To return you to a state of 0, nonexistence a different measure is required
One cannot return to a state of zero (0), based on calculation e), which is a similar state prior to your existence; because we know at one time you existed, and have no proof of anything else.
Because we know that when you die that you are no longer in existence, the only logical action and state then is to make use of a negative number to return you to the state of zero " which, we must do because you do not exist in the material state when you ar
Posted by SNP1 2 years ago
SNP1
"SNP1, Why use sources or cite them if they are not read?"

Sources are there to show that you did research and aren't pulling the information out of your ***. Whatever information is in your sources that you want your opponents to know should be summarized in your debate.

I mean, looking at this debate of yours, you wouldn't stand a chance in a live debate.
Posted by Mr.Kal 2 years ago
Mr.Kal
I am going to be a bit harsh - since I did take the time to look through the book
The first major issue with the book it has nothing to do with math it is numerology.

Math does require some formulaic calculations.
For example comoving distance
http://en.wikipedia.org...

When you have a theory it should set limits in proof. Which your book does not do. Lets take a look at page 39 - you state because the bible has multiple dimensions that is proof of multidimensionism. That unfortunately is not how it works, as that also means Hinduism and Buddhism is true as they also believe in multiple planes. After all since you are claiming "math" is involved 1 + 1 does not equal 2 3 4 5 6 7 8. It only equals 2.

What you ended up only doing is took scientific theories and placed bible verses you thought most associated with them. Again this is not math it is numerology. Then around page 40 of the book it completely goes off topic of any relation to math what so ever.

Though there is one part which is quite accurate;
"Some no doubt will declare the findings to be madness"

Though much of the book is madness it does have some good moral points - such as dealing with inequality of sexes, wages, and classes.

There was another interesting quote
Until religion is stabilized "backed by sound scientific data"it is just unfounded opinion that Godless men call delusion. And, will remain a volatile cocktail men set aflame to promote the killing of individuals, and groups, that are not of the true religion (of which no one has yet to prove they are of);

Which essentially disproves religion as if no one is part of true religion. True religion cannot be defined or exist.

Any who long story short the only real conclusion is you already had the end point and fit the evidence to reach the results. Which unfortunately is not science or math. You will need to start over and look for evidence and interpret points instead of having points and findin
Posted by WIamwe 2 years ago
WIamwe
SNP1, Why use sources or cite them if they are not read?
Posted by SNP1 2 years ago
SNP1
What I mean by a good source is one that has not been shown to be unreliable in the past. The most reliable sources are those written by experts (Historians for history, scientists for science, etc.).

Also, it is true that some might have to use logic flow (premise and conclusion), but then they have to use it in the debate, not in their source. Even then, when showing that the premises are true, you usually want to use sources.
Posted by WIamwe 2 years ago
WIamwe
SNP1,
When someone is introducing new evidence, one can not always site sources, and must use logic, natural Law, and numbers. In this case mathematics is used to prove the Bible and the Gnostic scriptures, specifically Jesus' testimony within them, are creditable sources.

Any source used can be disputed, so i don't know what you mean by a "good source". Especially when many sources years later are proven to be false, or inaccurate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by CASmnl42 2 years ago
CASmnl42
WIamweclmcd42Tied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Con made the better arguments. Both parties were respectful of one another - the points for conduct are therefore awarded to Con, who was very patient with an apparently insane person. Sources to Con because of Pro's inability to cite anything concisely.