The Instigator
greatusernamedude
Pro (for)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
Josh_b
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

There is no Illuminati: Debate.

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Post Voting Period
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after 1 vote the winner is...
Josh_b
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/9/2014 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,005 times Debate No: 43626
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (1)

 

greatusernamedude

Pro

On May 1st, 1776, The Order of the Illuminati was indeed founded by a man named Adam Weishaupt. There is no Illuminati. Have fun debating this with me!

(1) http://rationalwiki.org...
Josh_b

Con

I would like to debate this round as there is proof for the Identification of what the Illuminati is and does.

The Term Illuminati means the enlightened ones, and goes further back in history than 1776 as stated by your wiki link which is biased and demeaning towards people who believe the Illuminati exist calling them cranks and referring to Pat Robertson as having "company among other theocratic media weirdos personalities" where wierdos is crossed out but still left in to identify the writer's contention with people who believe in the Illuminati.

The Free Masons are not all considered Illuminati, only the highest level of Free Masons are considered as such.
The Illuminati are also referred to as having many sects besides Free Masons and the individual refutation of the Free Masons does not conclude that Illuminati do not exist in another form.

My belief in the Illuminati stems from the belief of a secret society that controls world policy and dictates media representations of such. Their goal is not a satanic goal, but rather a self worshiping goal. Ok, that's satanic too.
I will present symbolism of the Illuminati used subversively in media.
And provide likely evidence of MK Ultra which is a function of Illuminati.
Whether or not the Individual Person is or isn't an actual member or pawn of the illuminati, the possibility exists that the person in acting in favor of the Illuminati guidelines and shows an overwhelming likely hood that the 'Secret' society exists.


Debate Round No. 1
greatusernamedude

Pro

Thank you for taking up this challenge. I have only one suggestion (notice that I did not say stipulation)...... from here-in, all sources which are cited should be sources that you would be proud to put in a college paper. You have indeed taught me a valuable lesson, kind sir, and I must say, with no small amount of humility, you have indeed scored a point against me! I must confide in you that I am impressed with the fact that you noticed my source citing blunder!! I am impressed with your deductive gifts, how could I have made the mistake of not anticipating that excellent move?? (Sorry, I am told by most of my more worldly-wise debaters that they are neither keen on my overuse of punctuation , nor the what they have come to term my "humble arrogance," or, alternatively, my "arrogant humbleness"). I can, if you wish, go over each paragraph in your statement one by one, and address them to the best of my now hip-checked ability, or, because I am so impressed by your argument, if you absolutely insist, I'll humbly admit a draw and you will have won! It's up to you, to the victor go the spoils!!
Josh_b

Con

I would like to say thank you for starting this debate and Welcome to DDO. I appreciate your candor and honesty. I am generally not opposed to using Wikipedia and others like it because they are generally fact based. I would like to premise this debate with some ideas. All mention of the Illuminati is biased. Articles are either on the side that they do exist, and present evidence to such, or they are on the side that they don't exist and present evidence to that end. Some marginally admit that the Illuminati used to exist but doesn't exist today. It is in those article that say the Illuminati used to exist that give further evidence for the Illuminati continuing to exist.

I will likely use a lot of information relating to conspiracy. Why am I using conspiratorial argument when they are quickly debunked and diminished by ad hominem fallacy? Because they are called conspiracies. Any time the media tells one story and the facts show overwhelming evidence that the story being presented isn't true, the story relating to a questioning of the media story is called a conspiracy and the people who question the media presented story are called cranks, or some other derogatory term, that doesn't address the evidence.

Some examples:
Overwhelming evidence in the JFK assassination suggests a grassy knoll shooter. I have been to Dallas and seen the area where JFK was killed. The depository presents a lot of questions. The people across the street have full view of the depository. But the depository doesn't have full view of the street. In the scheme of things the depository seems like the most likely place to plant evidence after the fact, rather than the most likely place for a shooter to set up shop. For me however, the answer of the question "where were the shooters?" is evident in the eyes of the people of the crowd. In panic after hearing a gun shot, it is an involuntary reaction to look toward the origination of the noise. In the videos of the event, you will notice as I did, that the people of panic are looking in other directions. But the media says it was a one man show, and therefore any other explanation is a conspiracy thought up by a crank.
The Benghazi death of Ambassador Chris Stevens. The media initially presented a story that was false and misleading about the nature of the events that took place. Other stories were considered conspiracies. Then the true story came out and poorly functioning government policies were dismissed with a simple "who cares?" Any one that does care is a whack job anyways.

I first learned of the video series, I will present later in my argument, from another debate right here on DDO concerning the 9/11 conspiracy. It is of Muslim origin and I initially dismissed it as religious propaganda, but I decided to watch it anyways. My personal arrow toward a conspiracy of 9/11 was a simple question. "Why would an Abramic religion carry out an attack on such a satanic day?" It just didn't make sense. The enlightenment of skipping from the 9th degree to the 11th degree has long been a known satanic idea. I learned of it when I was learning about the 911 phone number. The video explains it also.

Symbolism of the Illuminati, even though the order is said to not exist, the symbolism of it is still prevalent. The three that I would like to show in this round are the White Rabbit, The Owl, and The All Seeing Eye.

The video series does a great job of explaining it, but here are some other recent pictures of the use of the symbolism still being used today. The winking owl is a reference to the Illuminati and to the all seeing eye. The picture is a picture of LaLa Loopsy, which is a cartoon for girls. If the illuminati did not exist, there would be no reason for the Owl to be purposely created missing one eye.
http://data3.whicdn.com...

We should all know the symbolism on the U.S. American Dollar Bill, and we should know that the American monetary system has seen many changes to its design even though the symbolism remains largely unchanged on the bill. This is a solid indication that the Illuminati is still in existence.

The white rabbit has long been a common theme is music, movies, and books. This article presents the symbolism of the White Rabbit. Although it is considered a myth by the writer of the article, the continued use of the white rabbit in images and themes indicates that some people believe the myth and are acting with the rabbit as part of their belief system.
http://www.endicott-studio.com...

Many companies also display symbolism of the duality of man, a suspected belief of the Illuminati. Some of the symbolism includes the golden arches in which the arch is a symbol of sun worship. and the double SS symbol of lightening associated with Hitler's henchmen.

Here is the link I mentioned earlier.
https://www.youtube.com...

I apologize for having to cut this argument off short, but I must be away for the weekend. Please postpone your rebuttal to this argument until Sunday, I will be gone all weekend at Military drill.
Debate Round No. 2
greatusernamedude

Pro

Thank you for your civility, something that I am not accustomed to in my previous debates, as will be seen if you view my other debate that I have going on right now. Please come check it out and support me in the comment section, if you see fit after reading my argument about the separation of church and state. You are kind, thank you. I can tell that this will be a great debate from this point on because we are both kind.

Let's not use Wikipedia unless absolutely needed, because of the current perception of Wikipedia. It will protect us both.
Let's next address the definition of the words cranks and weirdos. According to http://dictionary.cambridge.org..., a crank is:
"a person who has strange or unusual ideas and beliefs
" US an unpleasant and easily annoyed person:
She's always a crank first thing in the morning."

According to http://dictionary.cambridge.org..., a weirdo is: "a person who you think is strange and who makes you uncomfortable:
That guy is a real weirdo."

Let's address each of these in turn. A crank is a person who has strange or unusual ideas and beliefs, and/or is an unpleasant and easily annoyed person. These people are generally shunned. They may have a lot of good qualities, but society at large views them with suspicion. A weirdo is a person who you think is strange and who makes you uncomfortable. These people are generally shunned. They may have a lot of good qualities, but society at large views them with suspicion. In society at large, majority rules and the majority is not on the side of what society views as weirdos or cranks. It doesn't pay to be obsessed with one particular theory or subject, nor does it pay to seem strangely off putting or look strange, either by the way you dress, or the way you behave, or your general demeanor. This is why people are labeled as cranks and weirdos. It's saying, "Hey, be careful of these people, they are strange, keep a wary eye on them. It pays to keep an eye on people who might possibly be a danger to themselves or others." It's not always a bad thing.

Anyways, I am really enjoying this debate, and I didn't think I would, and I am not enjoying the one debate I thought I would enjoy the most, which is my other debate. Thank you for remaining civil in all your posts, you are an upstanding individual!
Josh_b

Con

Organizations of the "Illuminati"

It is important for me to make the connection between different sects of secret societies that have seemingingly the same symbolisms. If we may, let us believe that the Illuminati refers to the full gamut of all secret societies which are oganized for the same cause. The illuminati may just be a small, out of date sect of a much older secret society. The Freemasons, The order of the Owl, The order of the White Rabbit, Bohemian Club, The priory of Scion, Opus Dei, KKK, Germany during World War 2, The Catholic Church, Anchient Egyptians, et al. are sharing the same symbolism as part of their identification markers. It's impossible for me to name all of the secret societies, I can only identify a few common themes among franchised businesses of today.

Who makes up the symbols used in business? And with so many laws against copyright, who is authorizing these symbols to be used over and over again? Here's a symbol I saw recently and began to wonder about.
Dell's symbol turns the E catycorner. It looks dynamic, but is there something deeper behind it?
http://www.androidguys.com...
Check out this IMF Australia image with the same catycorner symbol
http://www.mysharetrading.com...;

After doing some research on the matter, I think that this particular style of 'e' rendition could be the inverse of the Double Cross which is also part of the Exxon Logo. It is also seems clear that the yin yang symbol is in the backgroundof the Dell symbol making the inference to Duality. If I didn't know any better, I would think Dell put thier name on a muted version of the Pepsi logo.

I also want to show another World Bank symbol that is being used for another purpose, particularly accessing the internent on Iphones. Any other time two companies try to use the same symbol, there's a huge financial battle. There must be some sort of agreement among these companies that allow them to use the same symbolism.
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com...;
http://upload.wikimedia.org...

I know that I mentioned Hitler's government in the same breath as the catholich church and I think some people will be disturbed by that, but here is a symbol of the Legion of Mary along with two images of the German Eagle mounting a reef. The first Image german image is with the Nazi symbol, the second is with the Knights Templar cross and is followed by the London coat of arms. These images are not all inclusive and give no direct identification of a particular named secret society. They are merly to identify the fact that of these nations are using the same embolisms as part of thier identification process. If there is no secret society in existance, the symbols certainly show homage to one that did exist. The driving fator that leads me to believe they still exist is the repetitive usage and new usage of the symbols.

http://www.boldonauctions.co.uk...
http://arlingtonregia.org...
http://scenicreflections.com...
http://findwyerspodcast.files.wordpress.com...
http://www.theakan.com...

Who is Niccolo Machiavelli and why is he important?
If any one is supposed to believe that all of these rappers and music artist are part of the Illimunati ruse, we must consider why Tupac would produce lyrics so horrible just to say Machiavelli's name over and over again On his Killuminati album.

The symbolism of the Illuminati that I know started with the Medici Family. Here is a short video about the godfathers of the renesaince. https://www.youtube.com...

After understanding the Medici, it is possible to understand their opposer, Niccolo Machiavelli and why the catholic church condemned his book "The Prince." The most common belief for thier hatred toward him was this book which threatened to expose them. https://www.youtube.com...

Another book that is said to give homage to the Illuminati order is considered a nonsence children's book called Alice in Wonderland/Through the Looking Glass. A great majority, if not all, of the symbolism in the book is related to the proposed Illuminati belief system. Including the Red Queen which is thought to be the depiction of Semerimus. Here's a list of chariecters and summary of the book. I read it when I was younger, but I think it may be more interesting to read now if symbolism is appiled. http://www.sparknotes.com...

Understanding the Medici, and Maciavelli are the key to understanding the Illuminati today, however some writers believe the Illuminati go back as far as the Abramic tribe of Dan. I can't find much on that except this unsouced article http://www.moresureword.com...

The previous article goes really deap in the identification of the Illuminati, but it doesn't mention the Rothschilds, said to be the current manipulating family of the so called freeworld. The Rothschilds are said to have deep ties to the Bavarian Illuminati and by the author of the following article reffered to as the "Co-masters of the World" having at one time controlled most of the Vatican's wealth. http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

Watch the videos in my first argument. Thank you for this debate.
Debate Round No. 3
greatusernamedude

Pro

First of all, let me address the fact that we have very different methods of doing research. Let me just say I'm not trying to be rude, but most of the sources you cite are .com's, and that's actually a big mistake. So let me try something new. I'm going to only address your weakest arguments based on my knowledge of what topic you're talking about, without either looking at or citing any sources, okay?

1: "My belief in the Illuminati stems from the belief of a secret society that controls world policy and dictates media representations of such. Their goal is not a satanic goal, but rather a self worshiping goal. Ok, that's satanic too."

Your belief in the Illuminati stems from the belief of a secret society. Key word? Belief. It is both satanic and not satanic?Which one is it? Satanic, or not? Or, could it be that self-worshiping is a flaw that most everyone in the world is guilty of a good majority of the time?

2: "Whether or not the Individual Person is or isn't an actual member or pawn of the illuminati, the possibility exists that the person in acting in favor of the Illuminati guidelines and shows an overwhelming likely hood that the 'Secret' society exists."

Key words? Possibility and likelihood. Please elaborate on why you put quotes around the word "Secret" but not society.

3: "It is in those article that say the Illuminati used to exist that give further evidence for the Illuminati continuing to exist."

Please cite sources, but first search Google for "How to cite online sources" for tips on what kind of sources to list, because .com doesn't cut it most of the time.

4: "The video series does a great job of explaining it, but here are some other recent pictures of the use of the symbolism still being used today. The winking owl is a reference to the Illuminati and to the all seeing eye. The picture is a picture of LaLa Loopsy, which is a cartoon for girls. If the illuminati did not exist, there would be no reason for the Owl to be purposely created missing one eye."

Let's please cease all talk of cartoons, comic strips, or anything fictional, including but not limited to Alice in Wonderland.

5: "We should all know the symbolism on the U.S. American Dollar Bill, and we should know that the American monetary system has seen many changes to its design even though the symbolism remains largely unchanged on the bill. This is a solid indication that the Illuminati is still in existence."

Please search Google for the whole history of the U.S. American Dollar Bill, go to reliable sources that you will learn are best for research from my previous tip. I will do the same.

6: "The white rabbit has long been a common theme is music, movies, and books. This article presents the symbolism of the White Rabbit. Although it is considered a myth by the writer of the article, the continued use of the white rabbit in images and themes indicates that some people believe the myth and are acting with the rabbit as part of their belief system."

No more talk of anything fictional, okay? :)

7: "Many companies also display symbolism of the duality of man, a suspected belief of the Illuminati. Some of the symbolism includes the golden arches in which the arch is a symbol of sun worship. and the double SS symbol of lightening associated with Hitler's henchmen."

The duality of man is not a new or evil concept. Most people hold this BELIEF, as do most religious people. For instance, I am a Christian, and I hold this BELIEF. Could I be mistaken? Sure! Also, are you comparing McDonalds to Nazis? ;) I don't support McDonald's either, but I don't think they're Nazis. ;)

8: "Who makes up the symbols used in business? And with so many laws against copyright, who is authorizing these symbols to be used over and over again? Here's a symbol I saw recently and began to wonder about.

Dell's symbol turns the E catycorner. It looks dynamic, but is there something deeper behind it?

http://www.androidguys.com......

Check out this IMF Australia image with the same catycorner symbol

http://www.mysharetrading.com...;

Huh? Please elaborate, as copyright laws are very complicated and businesses have to make sure they are not infringing on another company's image.

9: "After doing some research on the matter, I think that this particular style of 'e' rendition could be the inverse of the Double Cross which is also part of the Exxon Logo. It is also seems clear that the yin yang symbol is in the backgroundof the Dell symbol making the inference to Duality. If I didn't know any better, I would think Dell put thier name on a muted version of the Pepsi logo."

You've completely lost me. And I believe, but could be mistaken, that the yin yang design is of Eastern origin, not Western? Not sure.

"I know that I mentioned Hitler's government in the same breath as the catholich church and I think some people will be disturbed by that, but here is a symbol of the Legion of Mary along with two images of the German Eagle mounting a reef. The first Image german image is with the Nazi symbol, the second is with the Knights Templar cross and is followed by the London coat of arms. These images are not all inclusive and give no direct identification of a particular named secret society. They are merly to identify the fact that of these nations are using the same embolisms as part of thier identification process. If there is no secret society in existance, the symbols certainly show homage to one that did exist. The driving fator that leads me to believe they still exist is the repetitive usage and new usage of the symbols."

Please elaborate after researching. I don't follow your argument in the slightest. Please Google Nazi symbolism, then Google Catholic symbolism, and the origin of both. I'm not that knowledgeable about either, please report back with respectable sources.

"Who is Niccolo Machiavelli and why is he important?

If any one is supposed to believe that all of these rappers and music artist are part of the Illimunati ruse, we must consider why Tupac would produce lyrics so horrible just to say Machiavelli's name over and over again On his Killuminati album.

After understanding the Medici, it is possible to understand their opposer, Niccolo Machiavelli and why the catholic church condemned his book "The Prince." The most common belief for thier hatred toward him was this book which threatened to expose them. https://www.youtube.com...;

Okay, let me go on the record now and add to the dislike of Machiavelli. His book "The Prince" disgusts me. It is about gaining power by any means necessary, I despise that book. The Medici's were the major financiers of the Renaissance. Point for Medici, and point against Machiavellian-ism. Again, please leave aside mention of things like song lyrics, etc. I love The Beatles, but I wouldn't source a lyric if trying to prove a fact.

Again, I'm not trying to be rude, I think you're a cool guy, just do better research, okay? :)
Josh_b

Con

Thank you for a reasonable and comprehensive rebuttal. I’m not sure what further evidence I could have presented further regarding the implied existence of the Illuminati.


Response to Contentions


Resources


.com’s vs .org’s and .gov’s is not all inclusive of reliable and unreliable. Information is information regardless of which source it comes from. As I believed that I pointed out earlier, this debate holds a specific bias just in identifying yes or no. All sources are biased in that they are means to justify the end. I would obviously not use any resource that claims the Illuminati doesn’t exist, just as I would expect you to not use any resources that claim the Illuminati does exist. Whether the sites are noted .com or .xxx, et al. does not change the information provided.


All of my information is circumstantial evidence that proves that the illuminati exists in some form. If I were to name all Christians as Mormons, I would be completely wrong. Mormons are considered a portion of the population with Christianic beliefs and not the other way around. Mormons and Baptists alike would also claim that there are distinct differences in beliefs held by one sect over the other. However, having no other name to call the whole gamut of sects also holding the beliefs held by the Illuminati, I have no other basis for naming Illuminati as the whole gamut of sub beliefs other than the purpose of identification.


Satanic vs. Not Satanic


The direct worshiping of a god named Boaz, Jachin (or any other name) is not necessary for my Christian belief of Satanism. I consider all other forms of deification to be satanic, including self worship which I find is the most prolific form of Satanic nature. Self worship is not a belief of Christians, and is strongly spoken against in the bible. Daniel (11:36), 2 Thessalonians (2:4), both tell that self worship is an attribute of the Antichrist. It is most condemning in the Matthew 4:1-11 story of Jesus after his 40 days of fasting in the wilderness. The devil offers him all the kingdoms of the world, in exchange for worship. Jesus refuses not only devil worship, but entirely worshiping and serving anything other than the Lord our God. His refutation includes self worship.


‘Secret’ Society


I do not know the complete function of the Illuminati or their mindset. They are often referred to as hiding in plain sight. Knowing that they exist is not the same as experiencing their existence. Secret is in quotes as that to what extent they are acknowledged is not the same degree as to what extent they exist, or to the capacity in which they exist.


I just watched a movie yesterday called Jack Reacher. In the movie, Jack is approached by a group of thugs who want to beat him up. The make a poor attempt in the matter and the police arrive before the battle is even finished. The quick arrival of the police, stirs the curiosity of Jack and he asks the thug leader, “Who hired you?” At that time, Jack did not know the secret organization that was behind the attack. And he rightly deduced that the thugs were acting on behalf of the organization, and not actually involved in the organization itself. They were pawns acting in favor of the organization and the organization had a much higher purpose than Jack’s demise.


The articles which say the Illuminati used to exist.


The symbolism, doctrines, and references to who they are, and who they were, is not only unchanged, it is still being used. The article you provided also gives reference to the use of Illuminatic symbols being used in media. Doesn’t anyone own these symbols? Or are they just free use for every Tom, dick, and Nazi organization? And more importantly, why the same symbols over and over again? If they were meant to just draw controversy, why not just use sex? Nearly everyone finds public displays of sexual innuendo to be controversial. Just look at Disney. Miley Cyrus, Britney Spears, Christina Agulara, and Justin Timberlake, all producing illuminati reference materials in their videos. Why would Disney of all companies still be using these references?


Cartoons and Alice in Wonderland


Cartoons are always drawn on purpose. It is no accident that a symbolic reference or self serving storyline is included in a cartoon. Someone had to specifically create the reference and authorize its use. Any hidden object in a cartoon was purposely created to be hidden, or to be seen only by the subconscious mind.


Alice in Wonderland is a literary reference that suggests the structure and organization of Illuminati hidden in plain sight, marketed as a children’s novel and literary nonsense. It’s mode of symbolic communication is both controversial, and in the same fashion as Dr. Seuss, Aesop’s Fables, and the parables of Christ. Its symbolic references are plainly linked to illuminati factions and deities. Going through all of the references in the book is complicated and time consuming. It is up to each individual to read the book in new context to fully understand its meaning. Most people won’t.


American Dollar Bill


Its creation was at the time of the said time of the aforementioned American Illuminati faction’s existence. Its continued use, without the similar changes that other denominations have undergone, represents its world value as something more than currency. The only justifiable explanation, that I can conceive, is its symbolic nature in reference to a social network. If the illuminati were abolished, this reference to their existence would be abolished also. The references may be to a different society that is not the Illuminati, but the existence of the bill’s symbology is evident and the majority of them are references of Illuminatic nature. I’ve already mentioned my reasons for calling them illuminatic.


Fictional or Non Fictional


The white rabbit is a subject of belief systems. It’s use, especially in Easter celebrations, are part of the Ishtar deification. The inclusion of the white rabbit in the Titian painting at the bottom of the link I provided on this subject earlier, should be a solid reference as to who is actually being portrayed in the picture(Ishtar or Mary). The rabbit is part of the story of Tumuz and Nimrod. It is not part of the story of Jesus. And it part of the Illuminati beliefs.


The duality of man


Not a matter of controversy, just a matter of inclusion in beliefs and common representation of this belief.


Mcdonald’s, Nazi’s, and Catholicism, along with Copyright infringement


They all have common ties that reference a greater cause. If there were copyright infringement of these entities, someone would obviously say something. However, if the uses were authorized no need for litigations to take place. Does the symbol need to be of a certain origin to be included in the representation of duality? Are these coincidences so prolific that a higher entity is involved? I say they are. Although, I just used a small sample to prove my point there is are a great deal of companies using Illuminati symbols. But to justify the ends, I think a further look at the Medici and Rothschild involvement in each of these instances is necessary.


The Federal Reserve was created under the Rothschild's whom, according to my previous article concerning them, were also in charge of the same finances as Vatican Catholic Church who also funded The National Socialist German Party. Due to the recent economic downturn, many U.S. companies have gone to the Federal Reserve to secure financing. Some conservatives believe that this downturn was purposely created by the Illuminati to allow the world bank to seize control over the U.S. economy. This financial control would turn America into a moderately communist country where the agents of business were government controlled. The skeptics of an Illuminati driven government takeover, can look at the cause of the takeover and claim it is completely happenstance or attribute it to other causes, but the result is still business turning over control of their interests to the government.


Mcdonald’s is just one small company involved in World Globalization. Their alliance with the World Bank is just one that is widely known. The entire world was involved in the Economic Crisis. One company or specific nation controlling it all would almost be impossible, right? Well it wouldn’t be impossible if all the countries that suffered from the crises were all beholden to the same financial institution. And all of the countries are beholden to the World Bank. Has the World Bank collapsed? No, it has actually become stronger.


Here’s a short history of the Medici bloodline, you can research it. The information checks out. http://www.davidicke.com...


This is rather long, but the information is solid. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net... I can’t find a blood link to the two families but their history together goes very far back. The link that I can find between the two Families does go back to the French Freemasons. http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net...


This is ultimately where the controversy of Pat Robertson begins.

Debate Round No. 4
greatusernamedude

Pro

So, I didn't think you were referring to that kind of self-worship. I misread and assumed you were talking about vanity. I understand what you meant. I apologize for misunderstanding. But... I have read your argument, have visited some of the sites you mentioned, and I have come to the conclusion that I am right that this is kind of loony. It's nothing about you personally, but I respectfully disagree with you, and I bow out.
Josh_b

Con

Thank you for starting this debate. It really challenged me to understand the nature of the group, I refer to as the Illuminati. Thank you also for reading my arguments.

There is a natural tendency for people to want to understand the order of the world around them. Many people can attribute it to the Chaos theory, but when it comes to social matters, it seems very real that there is a natural order behind underlying causes. It is not loony thinking to believe that the social order is controlled or can be controlled by a small group of elites. Every country is controlled by its government and the people in the government are a small number compared to the people in the country. If there were a government of nations, the government would only need to be large enough to control the leaders of the nations. The U.N. exists, so the probability of a small group of people controlling the entire world is a possibility in that sense.

But who is deciding what policies should be moved forward? The people who are part of the organization or another outside influence? Could it be both at times? The Medici's believed in a one world order. The Rothschild family believes in a one world order. They both follow ancient demonic religions. They both have established elite secret societies. They both control vast amounts of the world's wealth. They must be the influencing agents behind world policy. They are the only known families that have the ability to do such a thing.

The Illuminati is the name of their secret societies which act on their behalf. At least Illuminati was the name at some time. And illuminati is the term that we have used to reference the secret societies that control world policies. So do the illuminati exist? I say they do, and their existence is proved through their signs, religious beliefs, and symbols currently being used in today's society.
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by jangawonder 3 years ago
jangawonder
there why weeds illegal its a threat to them. think about it theres nothing wrong with weed. yet illegal and alcohol is far worse legal
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Buckethead31594 3 years ago
Buckethead31594
greatusernamedudeJosh_bTied
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct points to Pro for their honorable concession. Arguments are in Con's favor. Nice job!