There is no biblical reason the Boy Scouts of America should not be allowed to meet in a church
Debate Rounds (3)
There is no biblical reason the BSA should not be allowed to meet in a church. I present the following three reasons with scripture to qualify this position:
1.) "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" Romans 3:23- We run a dangerous gauntlet when we allow ourselves as Christians to feel we cannot interact with sinners. The argument presumes that homosexuality is a sin. If this is true, then homosexuals, like the rest of us, fall short of the glory of God. If the argument is that one cannot meet at a church because they are a sinner, then the church should be completely empty.
2.) "And when Jesus heard it, he said to them, "Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners." Mark 2:17- By removing the BSA because they have allowed openly gay boys to be scouts, haven't we turned away the sick? Do we turn away adulterers? liars? gossipers? The response as a church that we give by this decision says "you can be a certain kind of sinner, but some sinners, we just cant accept "those kinds of sinners". This is contrary to the entire concept of soteriology. Jesus accepts all sinners, but His believers will not? This is simply unacceptable.
3.) "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance."
While I will admit that "hate the sin not the sinner" is a clich"" that does not apply to God as it is theologically correct for Him to hate the sin and the sinner, "we as Christians, remain imperfect in our humanity and cannot love perfectly, nor can we hate perfectly (in other words, without malice). But God can do both of these perfectly, because He is God."(S. Haulgood) We, in our fallen state cannot hate without malicious intent and therefore cannot hate human beings for their actions. This is the same reason we can allow sinners in our midst and still love them in our congregations.
We as humans simply cannot treat certain sinners different from others. Jesus Christ came to love all (John 3:16) and so we must as well. Allowing the BSA to continue in our churches only drives home the point that although we may disagree with their actions, we love them anyway.
20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Now from what I believe, this indirectly proves the separation of church and state. And since the Boy scouts comes to include Muslims and others as well, you can not allow this to happen,
I do not think that forgiveness just magically appears if that is what you are saying,
I believe that you have to ask for forgiveness.
1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Yes, God loves all sinners. But he loves sinners who repent their sins.
Proverbs 28:13 - He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh [them] shall have mercy.
I will wait for my opponents response!
I would argue that saying The Boy Scouts of America is a not affiliated with any religious organization is incorrect. According to their website, BSA has Faith Based Chartered Organizations meaning that there are groups of Scouts, supported by and affiliated with religious organizations. These groups are many different Christian, Jewish and Muslim chartered packs. So the idea that scouts is not involved with church and vice versa is incorrect.
While it is true that homosexuality has been removed as a mental illness, that has little bearing on the issue at hand which is the need for biblical evidence to support churches banning scouts from meeting because of their decision to allow gay scouts.
In the same way the scouts do not declare a religion, although they do state it helps with development, it is also not government organization either. In reference to your first verse, this was a question of taxation. The verse is not valid here in my opinion because it is speaking to a separation of church and state, not a separation of private ventures and church. The Boy Scouts are a private institution affiliated with both church and state but not really subject to either.
As to your other point that forgiveness does not "magically" appear, I propose that while it isn't magical, it is not something we can earn with work either. As a Christian, forgiveness hasn't been handed to me without cost. It took the slaying of an innocent to attain it, but there was nothing I could do to earn it on my own. So, I agree it isn't magical but it is freely given. You must ask for forgiveness, but again this query does not satisfy the real question here and that is, should a church remove scouts because of a decision by that organization to allow homosexual boys to be scouts. I argue that answer to be false, churches do not have the right, biblically, to ask anyone to not come to church because they are a sinner, which is exactly what is being done here by not allowing gay scouts into the church. As stated previously, a church that doesn't allow sinners is a church of 0 members.
Sinners are the backbone of the faith. Here is a primary example: If a church allows Alcoholics Anonymous meetings to happen in the church, and someone in the group has committed adultery, do we throw the group out? Adultery, like homosexuality according to the Bible is a sin. So if we throw an entire group of scouts out because there MIGHT be a gay member we must then throw out the AA group because there are sinners there too. We must then throw out the soup kitchen because who knows what kind of sin come through our doors when allow them to come in and eat. This is a dangerous slope the church is going down.
Your final statement "Yes, God loves all sinners. But he loves sinners who repent their sins." falsifies itself. God loves humans and humans are sinners, therefore regardless if they repent or not does not change the fact that God loves us. The decision to choose Him or not doesn't change the fact He loves us, it only has bearing on our eternal state. God has always and always will love us.
I present these two reasons scouts should meet in church
How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?"[h] 17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.
We get an opportunity to show the world here that we love everyone as Christ does. We may not agree but we still love. This also gives us a chance to show evangelism by example to those who may never have had interaction with Christians. Not letting anyone in gives the world the ability to say we are elitist. This is in direct opposition to the gospel message.
2At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her." 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"
11 "No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."
We are acting like the crowd when we attack others and throw them out of our churches. I would argue that not allowing scouts to meet in our churches, puts us at odds with Christ as the crowd was here. Jesus did not agree with what the woman did, but he defended and loved her anyway. Notice that he shows His love before the command to "Go now and leave your life of sin." In the same way we are to love even though the choice isn't made to leave the life of sin. We are Christians, and we need to start acting like it.
I await your reply brother
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by OtakuJordan 2 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Con admitted defeat and Pro had better arguments anyway so it was quite clearly a win for him.
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