The Instigator
Bible13
Pro (for)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
Mikal
Con (against)
Winning
20 Points

There is no book as extraordinary as the Bible

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
Mikal
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/6/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 738 times Debate No: 56160
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (7)
Votes (6)

 

Bible13

Pro

I have mentioned this in previous similar debates and I say it again, faith should be genuine, based on facts, and able to stand to scrutiny. I am a Jehovah's Witness. I am very satisfied with my faith because it fits the description of genuine faith, and I am completely certain that there is no book as extraordinary as the Bible. In this debates I will give my reasons for coming to this conclusion and hope that most of the audience agrees with me.

In this debate it is expected from my opponent to talk about at least one book, preferably one he believes to be the word of God, and how it is equally or more extraordinary than the Bible.

Round 1: I (pro) have mentioned what book I believe in and Con should do the same.

Round 2: The books' historical accuracy will be compared.

Round 3: The books' scientific accuracy will be compared.

Round 4: The books' practical wisdom will be compared.

Round 5: Conclusion
Debate Round No. 1
Bible13

Pro

Thanks for accepting the debate. I see you are a professional debater; this should be interesting. To begin with let us compare the historical accuracy of our books. I understand you are an atheist so you don't necessarily need to believe in the book you choose. But it must be a holy book claiming to be from God.

The Bible is historically accurate and reliable. Its accounts are specific. They include not only the names but also the ancestry of individuals. In contrast to secular historians, who often do not mention the defeats of their own people, Bible writers were honest, even recording their own failings and those of their nation. For example, in the Bible book of Numbers the writer Moses admits his own serious error for which he was severely reproved (Numbers 20:2-12). Such honesty is rare in other historical accounts but is found in the Bible because it is a book from God.

Two of the greatest 20th-century archaeologists, William F. Albright and Nelson Glueck, both lauded the Bible (even though they were non-Christian and secular in their training and personal beliefs) as being the single most accurate source document from history. Over and over again, the Bible has been found to be accurate in its places, dates, and records of events. No other "religious" document comes even close.

The Bible has become a significant source book for secular archaeology, helping to identify such ancient figures as Sargon (Isaiah 20:1); Sennacherib (Isaiah 37:37); Horam of Gazer (Joshua 10:33); Hazar (Joshua 15:27); and the nation of the Hittites (Genesis 15:20). The biblical record, unlike other "scriptures," is historically set, opening itself up for testing and verification.

The 19th-century critics used to deny the historicity of the Hittites, the Horites, the Edomites, and various other peoples, nations, and cities mentioned in the Bible. Those critics have long been silenced by the archaeologist"s spade, and few critics dare to question the geographical and ethnological reliability of the Bible.

The names of over 40 different kings of various countries mentioned in the Bible have all been found in contemporary documents and inscriptions outside of the Old Testament, and are always consistent with the times and places associated with them in the Bible. Nothing exists in ancient literature that has been even remotely as well-confirmed in accuracy as has the Bible.
Mikal

Con

I am going to work off this initial syllogism and stay with it

[P1] If any book besides the bible is as extraordinary as the bible or more extraordinary than the bible the resolution is negated.
[P2] what is extraordinary is subjective, so if any possible possible person believes the bible is not the most extraordinary book the resolution is negated.
[P3] I don't believe the bible is the most extraordinary book, the resolution is indeed negated.

In defense of P1

If there is any possible book that has ever existed or that currently exists that is just as extraordinary as the bible or even more extraordinary than the bible, my adversary looses. He must show that the bible is the most extraordinary book and surpasses all other books.

In defense of P2

Extraordinary is subjective concept in and of itself. What qualifies as extraordinary to my adversary may not qualify as extraordinary to someone else. If any possible person or mind exists that does not consider the bible extraordinary, the bible is not extraordinary to that person and the resolution is negated. He must show that it is objectively extraordinary within every possible mind.

Conclusion

I don't think the bible is extraordinary along with countless other people. The resolution is negated.
Debate Round No. 2
Bible13

Pro

Ok, don't follow the order I suggested, that's fine!

There is no other book like it. The first book of the Bible tells us how mankind"s problems began. The last book shows that the whole earth will become a paradise, or garden. All the material in the Bible covers thousands of years of history and relates in some way to the unfolding of God"s purpose. It's harmony is extraordinary, considering the Bible had over forty writers with different backgrounds who lived during different time periods and did the writing over 1,610 years.

The book of Leviticus contained laws for ancient Israel on quarantine and hygiene when surrounding nations knew nothing about such matters. At a time when there were wrong ideas about the shape of the earth, the Bible referred to it as a circle, or sphere. (Isaiah 40:22) The Bible accurately said that the earth "hangs on nothing." (Job 26:7) The Bible is not a science textbook, but it is scientifically accurate and It even contains information that was far ahead of its time. Is this not what we would expect of a book from God?

Also, all its specific prophecies have fulfilled LONG after being predicted. I'll give you a very extraordinary example. The book of Isaiah predicted the Persian king Cyrus will conquer the ancient city of Babylon about 200 YEARS before it happened. There was no other Persian king Cyrus during the 200 years after the prophecy was written.

The Babylonians were holding a festival that night and felt secure behind their massive city walls. Meanwhile, Cyrus cleverly diverted the water of the river that flowed through the city. Soon the water was shallow enough for his men to cross the riverbed and approach the walls of the city. But how would Cyrus" army get past Babylon"s walls? For some reason, on that night the doors to the city were carelessly left open!

Regarding Babylon, it was foretold: "She will never be inhabited, nor will she reside for generation after generation. And there the Arab will not pitch his tent, and no shepherds will let their flocks lie down there." (Isaiah 13:20) This prophecy did more than predict the most powerful city's fall. It predicted it's permanent desolation! You can see evidence of the fulfillment of these words. The uninhabited site of ancient Babylon, about 50 miles or 90 km, south of Baghdad, Iraq, is proof that what Jehovah spoke through Isaiah has been fulfilled: "I will sweep her with the broom of annihilation." (Isaiah 14:22, 23).

The Bible is also historically accurate and reliable. Its accounts are specific. They include not only the names but also the ancestry of individuals. In contrast to secular historians, who often do not mention the defeats of their own people, Bible writers were honest, even recording their own failings and those of their nation. In the Bible book of Numbers, for instance, the writer Moses admits his own serious error for which he was severely reproved. (Numbers 20:2-12) Such honesty is rare in other historical accounts but is found in the Bible because it is a book from God.

The Bible is also a book of practical wisdom. Consider Jesus" speech called the Sermon on the Mount, recorded in Matthew chapters 5 to 7. In this masterpiece of teaching, Jesus spoke on a number of topics, including the way to find true happiness, how to settle disputes, how to pray, and how to have the proper view of material things. Jesus" words are just as powerful and practical today as they were when he spoke them.

Some Bible principles deal with family life, work habits, and relationships with others. The Bible"s principles apply to all people, and its counsel is always beneficial. The wisdom found in the Bible is summarized by God"s words through the prophet Isaiah: "I, Jehovah, am your God, the One teaching you to benefit yourself." (Isaiah 48:17).

The Bible truly is a unique book, but its value extends far beyond its internal harmony, scientific and historical accuracy, practical wisdom, and reliable prophecy. The Christian apostle Paul wrote: "The word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints and their marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart." (Hebrews 4:12). Reading God"s "word," or message, in the Bible can change our life. It can help us to examine ourselves as never before. We may claim to love God, but how we react to what his inspired Word, the Bible, teaches will reveal our true thoughts, even the very intentions of the heart.

Considering these facts should make you wonder: how could such an extraordinary book be the word of men? It couldn't. It is, without a shadow of doubt, THE word of God.

P1 - Give me an example of a book that is just as extraordinary or even more extraordinary than the Bible.

P2 - Ok, let's be more specific. Show me a book with as much or more science discovered at a later date, historical accuracy, scientific accuracy, that has as many or more specific fulfilled prophecies, that has been equally or better preserved, and has an equal or superior harmony. Your resolution is negated.

P3 - You have free will and so do all those many countless people. But what you all think is irrelevant without good arguments. Your resolution is negated.
Mikal

Con

My adversary has failed to address the initial claim and failed to properly refute my contentions

Again lets review this

[P1] I think any book (lets use the dictionary) is more extraordinary than the bible.
[P2] Since its true in my mind, its true in any possible mind due to its subjective nature
[C] The bible is not the most extraordinarily book ever.

For my adversary to win he must show the bible is extraordinary in every possible mind, and not just in his mind. His entire round just validated why its extraordinarily to him and to me or countless others. Any argument that can be presented, has been presented, or will be presented is directly relevant to his thoughts and is subjective. He would have to show the bible is is more extraordinary in my mind, than any other possible book that I could like.

This is not possible because I do not find it extraordinary.
Debate Round No. 3
Bible13

Pro

Perhaps my initial claim was not sufficiently clear, but I was clear enough in round 3. My adversary fails to comprehend that his opinion is irrelevant without argument. I do not have to change anyone's mind here. But why don't you tell us why you don't find the Bible extraordinary? Because you are an atheist? Then you might perhaps benefit from the debate I am having with Ozzie "God is real". You have misunderstood, and really, regardless of what the majority think, even if they voted for you as the winner, really who has given the arguments to prove his point? You, sir, are not debating. Just twisting my words in a way you find convenient. And I don't waste my time debating with people like you.
Mikal

Con

My adversaries statements are irrelevant and not applicable to the resolution of the debate

Why I believe the bible is not extraordinary is irrelevant, I just have to verify that I do believe it is not the most extraordinary book ever. Since this is subjective, I can make that assertion based on my personal thoughts and preferences. Which I have done

My adversary has failed to show the bible is the most extraordinary book ever in every possible mind, but just that it is the most extraordinary book in his mind. To make an objective statement such as "It is the most extraordinary book ever", that must be applied objectively across the board. He has failed to show this is the case, nor will be able to verify this

The resolution is not upheld and he has not held up his end of the BOP. I have shown that it is not the most extraordinary book ever in every possible mind, therefore the objective statement is falsified.
Debate Round No. 4
Bible13

Pro

Haha, ok. You are a smart adversary.
Mikal

Con

I accept the concession
Debate Round No. 5
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by Romanii 3 years ago
Romanii
Gee... these arguments sure look familiar... I wonder if maybe... you PLAGIARIZED THEM FROM THE SAME SOURCE?
Posted by Bible13 3 years ago
Bible13
Come on people, you are being Bias! I know the majority of you here don't believe in God, but Mikal didn't even follow the rules, that's a forfeit basically. I had the better grammar, better behavior, and better arguments, considering I actually debated!
Posted by cosecant 3 years ago
cosecant
Historically accurate?, wonder ...... .
Posted by Mikal 3 years ago
Mikal
I am not using a specific book, I am using any possible book
Posted by Bible13 3 years ago
Bible13
Oh, too late
Posted by Bible13 3 years ago
Bible13
Accept the debate then, if you feel you can win. ^_^
Posted by cosecant 3 years ago
cosecant
I am already laughing ..... .
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by Raymond_Reddington 3 years ago
Raymond_Reddington
Bible13MikalTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro plagiarized practically all of his main arguments.
Vote Placed by Cygnus 3 years ago
Cygnus
Bible13MikalTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Okay, this is seriously getting ridiculous. Christians, do you want to know why you keep losing nearly every debate you have? Because you keep using the same old arguments over and over and over again ad nauseam, in spite of the fact that they have been refuted ad nauseam. But it's gotten to the point that it seems so few of you are able to come up with your own arguments that you have to copy and paste entire arguments from someone else and pass them off as your own. Pro plagiarized his arguments from the following links: http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102005132 http://www.icr.org/bible-history/ Enough plagiarizing and more reading comprehension and writing skill! 7 easy points for Con.
Vote Placed by FuzzyCatPotato 3 years ago
FuzzyCatPotato
Bible13MikalTied
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Total points awarded:13 
Reasons for voting decision: cndct bc con troll. arg cuz troll arg wins
Vote Placed by ChadIrvin 3 years ago
ChadIrvin
Bible13MikalTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Neither debater made any advancements here.
Vote Placed by Blade-of-Truth 3 years ago
Blade-of-Truth
Bible13MikalTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct - Tie. Neither debater had poor conduct. S & G - Tie. Neither made any major grammatical or spelling errors. Arguments - Con. Setting aside the concession made by Pro in the final round, Pro failed to understand that maintaining burden of proof on a resolution that is basically an absolute claim is incredibly hard, if not impossible to uphold. Con successfully showed the audience in R2 how upholding such a burden is impossible and therefore nullified any points that could have been made by Pro at that point. From there, the debate devolved into Pro accusing Con of misunderstanding and vice-versa. Con won argument points due to these things. Sources - Tie. Neither utilized sources to strengthen their claims.
Vote Placed by voxprojectus 3 years ago
voxprojectus
Bible13MikalTied
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Reasons for voting decision: I thought the instigator's premise was interesting and I was dissapointed the Contender chose not to follow it. He could have picked a history book, or "The God Delusion" or ANYTHING and instead chose to make the debate a semantic wank-fest. On top of that, Ithink his premise was actually weak, even if internally consistent. Think about his logic and apply it to ANY argument: X is subjective. I don't think think Y. Therefore, since X is subjective, my subjective view becomes the determining one. I win. Give me all the points. if that's your argument style, don't accept any debates. There's no point. all that being said, there's really no one to award a point. Boo hiss.