The Instigator
Da_Baby_Mami_of_debating
Con (against)
Tied
7 Points
The Contender
Rickymadeja
Pro (for)
Tied
7 Points

There is no credible historical proof of the Biblical Jesus.

Do you like this debate?NoYes+2
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/2/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 835 times Debate No: 6116
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (8)
Votes (2)

 

Da_Baby_Mami_of_debating

Con

There is proof that Jesus Christ was here on the earth have you ever heard of the bible?

As I have a lot of characters to type, I'd like to start off with my beliefs, then some historical backing.

Jesus of Nazareth, born in Bethlehem of Judea to Joseph and Mary was expected before his birth by prophecy. That he lived a perfect life, taught others the teachings of God so relevant that whole religions (a very important "S") continue to teach them today. That he then died, he died taking on the sin of all mankind that those who would believe in his sacrifice would have their punishment taken away as Jesus had taken it upon himself. Then came back to life, was seen by many, and now resides in heaven speaking to God on our behalf.

Some of those statements are pure and total belief. There is no way to prove them. But, what can be proved is the person-hood of Jesus. And that is what I intend to do......now.

Josephus also speaks of Herod and John the Baptist (http://www.carm.org......) both of whom are spoken of in the Gospels. Why would we trust that John the Baptist had lived, yet deny the existence of Jesus. The Talmud (one of the holy books of Jewish faith) speaks of "Yeshu" being hanged (Sanhedrin 43a, p. 281) the Talmud also speaks of the High Priest Ananias who is mentioned in the Gospels as well as Acts. Gaius Suetonius Tranquillus also spoke in his book "Lives of the Twelve Ceasers" about a Chrestus whom certain Jews believed in a rioted against the government because of. There are others, but I think we have a basic understanding of what I'm going with that there are many contemporaries of Jesus who wrote about him, and who are not questioned about their veracity.

Next is evidence based on history. In the book "Jesus" by C. Guignebert (https://www.alibris.com......), he decides that, "conclusions which are justified by the documentary evidence [concerning the life of Jesus] may be summed up as follows: Jesus was born somewhere in Galilee in the time of the Emperor Augustus, of a humble family, which included half a dozen or more children besides himself." We also know more about Jesus, who has only been brought into question in the last hundred years, than we do about Homer and Alexander the Great, yet we never question their existence.
a good story using half truths and skeptics that have only popped up in the last 150 years, much like Dan Brown of Da Vinci Code fame (that's unfair, my opponent does a much better job of telling a story than Dan Brown). I have used full truths and skeptics from the very start of time, and they prove a historical Jesus.
Why is it that the same people who question Jesus' historical accuracy jump so quick when a coffin that may have been Jesus' is found (http://www.news.com.au......)? Are you more worried about Jesus' historical nature, or more worried about the spiritual nature that his life means on you? For, if that coffin was found to be Jesus Christ's with 100% proof, would you not now be asking how "silly Christians" can believe in a pile of bones? It's the same reason why CE and BCE are creeping up out of nowhere. "Common Era" and "Before Common Era" is a joke, how do we define what is "Common" and "Before Common" by the same birth of Jesus. Just instead of "Before Christ" and "Anno Domini" it attempts to take Jesus out of the equation, but he's still there for those who ask questions.

My last proof (for this session) will be other religions. I've already shown that Judaism speaks of Jesus. Islam also speaks of Jesus (http://en.wikipedia.org......). Neither religion centers on Jesus, in fact, it would be in the best interest of both for Jesus to not exist, yet they do. Why? Because, in a time that was mere hundreds of years after Jesus, not thousands, they knew that a Jesus of Nazareth had been born, and simply lived with it instead of trying to hide the fact.
Rickymadeja

Pro

I would first like to thank you for posting this argument, Even as a non-Religious person, Religion truly interests me. Now I shall delve right into the debate.

You claimed you could not prove, and were not going to attempt to prove anything involving Jesus that dealt with Faith, or belief. Then you immediately refer to people mentioned in the Gospels and the Talmud. Stories of the Bible and Jewish books. The bible being a holy Scripture of Catholicism, the Talmud being that of Judaism. A belief system. Can you prove any of the bible or the Talmud to be true? Can you prove those people lived? If so, can you prove that the really did speak of Jesus?I haven't read them, I am sure there are somethings in there that are possible. It's a matter of belief, it can't be proven or disproved, therefore you used information you claimed you cannot prove, proving yourself wrong.

Nothing is proven. Scientific method, claims that a theory is either accepted or rejected, never proven. Your theory being that Jesus was a living person. There is a lot of evidence supporting the acceptance of the aforementioned theory, but that still proves nothing.

Religion and history, are both continuums based on personal belief, If truly do not think Jesus Christ existed, No amount of proof in the world will make me think otherwise. If don't think World War II happened, You will never change my mind. Of course, I do believe Jesus lived, and that World War II happened. I may not think Jesus lived the Life that is Religiously and Historically accepted, but this is a hypothetical Debate.

Dan Brown was writing a fictional based on possibly factual historic events, and in my opinion, he did a good job. Who is to say the Bible didn't use half truths? or truths at all?

I feel I must clear something up here. As an Atheistic Agnostic, I do not simply claim that Jesus never existed. I know he did. I was taught about his historic, not biblical life, in my World History class, and I like to think that what I am being taught in school, has some sort of fact behind it. I know he changed the course of history, But I still do not believe he could walk on water, raise people from the dead, nor that he died for my personal "sins."
Debate Round No. 1
Da_Baby_Mami_of_debating

Con

Da_Baby_Mami_of_debating forfeited this round.
Rickymadeja

Pro

Please note my opponent has in fact been logged in within her debate period, meaning she didn't forfeit simply because she has not had a chance to.
Debate Round No. 2
Da_Baby_Mami_of_debating

Con

Da_Baby_Mami_of_debating forfeited this round.
Rickymadeja

Pro

Again, My opponent has been online in the constraint she issued.
Vote for me.
Debate Round No. 3
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by InquireTruth 8 years ago
InquireTruth
Hey s0m31john, do you want to debate the claims of the validity of that Movies claims?
Posted by InquireTruth 8 years ago
InquireTruth
The Jesus myth is definitely a small movement.
Posted by s0m31john 8 years ago
s0m31john
Ah ha! Here's the same thing, just in sync.
Posted by s0m31john 8 years ago
s0m31john
Sorry, the video is off with the audio in that video, but it was the only version I could find.
Posted by JustCallMeTarzan 8 years ago
JustCallMeTarzan
Who?

Even I don't contest Jesus of History (Jesus of Nazareth) exists - it's a matter of record in the Roman census... Suggesting Jesus didn't exist is about as logical as suggesting Caesar didn't exist.

I'll grant there are plenty of people that think Jesus the Christ doesn't exist... we call these people Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists, etc... not that Jews and Atheists are alike... they simply share the belief that Jesus wasn't the Son of God.
Posted by s0m31john 8 years ago
s0m31john
Posted by InquireTruth 8 years ago
InquireTruth
Yes, people do seriously contest it.
Posted by JustCallMeTarzan 8 years ago
JustCallMeTarzan
I don't think that anyone seriously contests that Jesus of History exists...
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Da_Baby_Mami_of_debating 8 years ago
Da_Baby_Mami_of_debating
Da_Baby_Mami_of_debatingRickymadejaTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by Rickymadeja 8 years ago
Rickymadeja
Da_Baby_Mami_of_debatingRickymadejaTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07