The Instigator
highbye2
Pro (for)
Tied
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The Contender
Conlatus
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

There is no perfect goverment.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/6/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 11 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 316 times Debate No: 40094
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

highbye2

Pro

There is no perfect government. This has been proven again and again throughout history, through rebellions, corruption, the poor in the streets, while the economy booms. We see this every day, we know it is happening yet are helpless to do anything about it. I challenge the opposition to think of a single government type, or system of policies that can fix this. And no I am not a pessimist, I am a realist.
Conlatus

Con

In 1877 Leo Tolstoy wrote "If you look for perfection, you'll never be content." This remark has a lot of truth in as for human beings true perfection is often an intrinsically unachievable goal. What is perfection if not personal? Perhaps such a thing as a perfect government exists, but it will require definition. Therefore I would like the instigator to define his personal view of perfection. In other words, what would constitute a perfect form of government?
Debate Round No. 1
highbye2

Pro

Thank you for catching this misunderstanding. There is no perfect form of government if you use the literal form of the word, shown by such distopian texts such as "The Giver" and "Brave New World", texts where a group attempts to make a perfect government, but only succeeds in making it Utopic for those who do not understand how the government works, and what we have lost (ex. ignorance is bliss) thus making it a distopian world. thank you for helping me clarify my topic, when I say perfect I mean free from possible corruption, reliably and consistently making decisions that will benefit the people as a whole, while remaining stable, and keeping our civil liberties and our right towards the pursuit of happiness. If your opinion of a perfect government differs from mine, I would be interested to hear it.

Thank you for responding to my debate, I am very interested to hear your ideas on the topic.
Conlatus

Con

Let me start by saying I'm very glad that you are not literal-minded. It would have been a very short and meaningless debate if the challenge meant that I were expected to provide the blueprints for utopia as my burden of proof.

The first thing I would like to ask if you would agree with me in saying that many of the requirements you have listed are relative in respect to personal and/or cultural background. For example, I suppose that an American will generally judge 'petty corruption' differently from, say, a West-African, in whom's country such forms of bribery might be socially accepted norm. In the same manner of thought, would you concur that the concept of 'civil liberties' too varies? In that the western norms on freedom of speech and emancipation might not meet equal approval within the mindset of the contemporary Middle East? If you do, then I suppose that you'll also grant that what constitutes the 'ideal' or 'best possible' government varies according to population or locale. That said, I assume the 'perfect government' we're looking for in this case doesn't need to be universally applicable in those respects and is to be found in the western world, is that correct?

I too consider myself to be a realist. In that respect I believe that as long as humans have free will, it is impossible to rule out corruption. In the same line of thought, I also consider it impossible to consistently find solutions to problems that will always benefit the people as a whole and that stability in a government system does not always have to be a positive thing. What worked two hundred years ago, might not work today and vice versa. In that respect, I think that 'stability of government' might prove a ruse in the long run.

I tend to agree with Winston Churchill who once remarked that "democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried." How that democracy is to be realized however is another matter. For example, I personally do not think every inhabitant of a democratic state should automatically have the right to vote. However, even with that being so, I am very glad I live in a western democracy which I consider to be (in respect to all current and past alternatives) the 'best' form of government yet devised.

My question to you would be; in what respect does your government not measure up to the requirements (corruption, decision making, stability, civil liberties) you listed in the previous round?
Debate Round No. 2
highbye2

Pro

highbye2 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
highbye2

Pro

The root of a bad government is the inability to create a stable society that consistently keeps the good of the people in mind, while respecting the rest of the world. There are many things that can interrupt this process of decision making. For practical purposes, I will name the first four that come to mind. Corruption can lead to a skewed objective in the government, thus changing the goal from an overall well-being to the well being of a certain group, which can either be a local group or national group. An example of this would be the rich poor gap in America (source: http://academic.udayton.edu...) I know many good people barely getting by, and this rich poor gap sickens me. The political process, this one is a little harder to explain, and is better to use an example, when gun legislation was trying to make its way through in America, both groups agreed on background checks, but it was not passed, as democrats attempted to rope it in with a ban on assault weapons. Sometimes politics gets in the way of progress. Media unaccountability, the media will often lose attention to an issue, or just not report on it as it is unentertaining and or difficult to explain. An example of this would be horse race reporting on elections. This is when instead of reporting on policy issues, you report constantly on who they think is going to win, and any recent bloopers; as these are more entertaining. The last issue is un-educated authorities. When politicians go for office, they don't need to learn how the economy works, they only need to know how to regurgitate a speech and kiss a few babies.

A perfect society would have to work around all of these four things (and probably a few others I have not thought of) in order to remain a stable society that works for the good of the people and respects the rest of the world. I do not believe this is possible, as I have not yet come upon a decent example.
Conlatus

Con

It's not the best of arguments, but I would have to say that - as with defining perfectness, most of the 'problems' mentioned are relative or at least highly personal. For example, I consider American society to be very stable, with comparativly little widespread conflicts, especially compared internationally. In terms of the equal distribution of wealth, this is less so, but both (material) wealth and poverty depend on the person and situation asked. A Somali might regard living in a trailer park not to be a sign of poverty. However, the 'it's worse overthere'-argument is not a true argument, still, I would say that the US or western democracies in general are on the 'perfect' side of the spectrum than the 'worst'.

In a democracy, it is virtually impossible to satisfy all as the system is based on majority rule. So I would regard that as an impossible goal. What I would most like to advise in this case, is to truly look at international alternatives. Because if perfection is unachievable by definition, to aim the 'arrows' of improvement at the US government might not be the most helpful at the moment.
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by C4explosive 11 months ago
C4explosive
There is a such thing as a perfect government and it is here on earth now as we speak
Posted by Conlatus 11 months ago
Conlatus
No problem, perfectly understandable.
Posted by highbye2 11 months ago
highbye2
Sorry I missed my post! Went hiking for a few days!
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