The Instigator
Akhenaten
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
NightSpeaks
Pro (for)
Winning
3 Points

There is no such thing as a virus

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
NightSpeaks
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/18/2017 Category: Science
Updated: 6 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 662 times Debate No: 104004
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (23)
Votes (1)

 

Akhenaten

Con

I contend that there are no viruses. The concept of a virus is illogical. Bad diet causes 98 % of all diseases and the other 2 % is caused by dangerous chemicals. Germs cause zero percent of disease.
NightSpeaks

Pro

Hello! I will be arguing for how viruses exist.

~~My Statement~~

VIruses DO, indeed, exist. They cause everything from the common cold to AIDS. The probability of catching a virus can change depending on food patterns (which you did mention, but you used it as reasoning for why viruses don't exist) and exposure (another thing that you mentioned).

~~Facts~~

1. Viruses are living organisms that are even smaller than bacteria.

2. Viruses are a leading cause of infectious diseases, along with bacteria, fungi, and parasites.

3. Viruses can cause fever, diarrhea, fatigue, muscle aches, and coughing.

~~Conclusion~~

Thank you! Let me know if my source was incorrect. I did get this information from an actual clinic, written by the staff members which include nurses, doctors, and scientists working at the clinic.

~~Sources~~

http://www.mayoclinic.org...
Debate Round No. 1
Akhenaten

Con

You are wrong from the start. Viruses are not living. Something that doesn't exist can't live. Even the medical system states that viruses are "non-living entities".
Viruses are illogical things that were created by the medical system to justify vaccination, drugs and other unnecessary medical procedures. The medical system is not as benevolent and caring as they say they are. The medical system is there to make money out of gullible and ignorant people. The medical system has brainwashed the public and government into submission over a period of hundreds and even thousands of years.
Go back thousands of years to the time of the witch doctors who used magic to cure illness. Nothing has changed. Doctors still use magic (deception) to trick people into thinking that they are curing an illness.

I have been through the medical system many times over 60 year period. I have been misdiagnosed several times by incompetent doctors who haven't got a clue as to how the human body functions. I have worked in a university laboratory as a photographer of electron microscope images. During this period I never saw any images of viruses. I know how an electron microscope works and what its limitations are. Even if there were such things as viruses - the electron microscope wouldn't be capable of capturing their image. This is because in order to photograph an image with an electron microscope you have to know where the object is in the first place. Electron microscopes are only good at scanning the surface of large solid objects. You can't photograph anything that is too small and isolated. Especially if the object is soft and squishy because you need to dry the object out using chemicals and freeze drying methods. Thus, all of the images that you see of viruses will be fraudulent. They will either be computer generated nonsense images or photos of hormones which will be in conjunction with pituitary glands. Its funny how viruses always occur around pituitary glands and are never seen in other locations.

Question for you to answer - How did the first person identify a virus without knowing what one looked like?
Without any reference material of what a virus looks like, finding one would be impossible. Therein lies the illogical nature of virus research and theory.

As stated in my opening post. Most disease is caused by internal leakage of the gut where bacteria escape from the bowel and enter the blood stream. This is caused by eating an inappropriate diet of grain, sugar and dairy. These items are all post agricultural revolution products. They have been around for about 10,000 years. Disease has been around for that exact same amount of time. Note - Disease and illness are unnatural and don't occur in pristine nature. Dangerous chemicals can also cause disease such as pesticides, fungicides, heavy metals, dyes and water repellents.

I will leave you with a video that highlights the corruption and deception of the medical and pharmaceutical industry.

https://www.youtube.com...
NightSpeaks

Pro

I do realize that viruses are not living. That's where I was wrong and I apologize for my misguided information.

I have yet to watch the video, and I'll add to this if needed if said video raises a certain point.

A) Incompetent doctors will always be. It is very difficult to correctly diagnose a patient, so the best that most doctors can do at first is give you the most general medicine for your symptoms. However, what does this have to do with disproving viruses?

B) I bring you to smallpox. Smallpox was a great danger (killing over 5 million natives of Mexico in the span of two years from 1519 - 1521), and yet has no been eradicated from the world. Check my sources for more information.

~~Sources~~
"Deadly Diseases: Epidemics throughout History." CNN, Cable News Network, www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/10/health/epidemics-through-history/.

"Smallpox." National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 19 Sept. 2017, www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/smallpox
Debate Round No. 2
Akhenaten

Con

A]. All doctors are incompetent because the system makes them incompetent by teaching then false concepts like the germ theory of disease.
Quote - "What does this have to do with viruses"?
A virus is a germ. Thus, if you teach doctors to look for germs when a person presents as being ill or sick, then, they are looking in the wrong place for a solution.

B.] Small pox and all other epidemics are caused mostly by volcanic activity which ruins crops and makes people sick through toxic gases and ash fallout. It has been found that most epidemics occurred during or after major volcanic activity. A world war can also bring on an epidemic. This is what happened after world war 2 which resulted in a flu epidemic due to food shortages and destruction of farming land and resources.

https://www.theguardian.com...

https://motherboard.vice.com...

Thus, we can see that there is really only one human disease which is called vitamin deficiency. All diseases are just different varieties of vitamin deficiency depending on which vitamin that you are deficient in.
NightSpeaks

Pro

Smallpox is, in fact, caused by the variola virus- which is transmitted from person to person. Again, I credit the NIH, specifically the NIAID for the research. As such, I highly doubt volcanic ash would spread the variola virus. On top of that, some health groups (not the NIH, however) categorize smallpox as not being the effect of a virus but is in itself a virus. As such, if you want to hold up your argument in any way, you have to prove to me that smallpox itself does not, and never did exist. Good luck, buddy- you need it.

I apologize for using CNN (not a good source by any means) as a source in my last argument, but using The Guardian is a step too far.

I noticed you linked to two news articles about volcanic ash being the cause of a major epidemic and possibly sparking the Dark Ages. Again, while that is an interesting read, just showing me sources that say that volcanic ash was the cause of an epidemic doesn't disprove ALL diseases. At least I linked to evidence that provided reasoning for why viruses do, indeed, exist.

So, with that out of the way, let me present one more argument-

C) If viruses don't exist, explain the following three viruses and their respective disease and how they are caused: HIV & AIDS, EBV / Certain Cancers, and Ebola (which in it of itself is a disease AND virus). And please provide reasoning other than just an unsupported claim having to do with volcanoes.

NOTE: Apologies for only using one main source this time- NIH and its subdivisions was the most trustworthy source for this subject. So it has a little less weight because I didn't have the time to double-check my information.

Sources-

"Smallpox." National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 19 Sept. 2017, www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/smallpox.

"HIV/AIDS." National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 20 Sept. 2017, www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/hivaids.

"Primary Immune Deficiency Diseases (PIDDs)." National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 20 Sept. 2017, www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/primary-immune-deficiency-diseases-pidds.

"Ebola & Marburg." National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 20 Sept. 2017, www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/ebola-marburg.

"Diseases & Conditions." National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, 20 Sept. 2017, www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/immunologic-diseases.
Debate Round No. 3
Akhenaten

Con

My opponents source of information is unreliable and corrupt. It is subject to nepotism, special interest groups and secret deals to keep quiet etc.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

https://www.quora.com...

All bureaucratic organisations that are supposed to protect the public are subject to influence from powerful companies and organisations that are cashed up and can pay people to keep quiet over matters of public concern. You can only determine what is truth from nonsense by doing your own research and finding outside 'the system' organisations like naturopathic doctors and the vaccination liberation website for your information. Non for profit organisations are your best bet to find the truth. Any person or organisation that has a financial investment in disease is always going to find that viruses do exist because they have shares in medical companies that produce the drugs to kill said 'germs'.

You need to study the whole history behind the small pox virus fiasco. It all started with a nit wit by the name of Edward Jenner. aka (Fast Eddy)

http://www.vaccinefraud.com...

C. HIV - There is no HIV virus. Even the doctors say this. It is just a culmination of bad diet, drugs, lack of sleep, anal sex and perforation of the bowel lining leading to immune system overload. Thus, its just another case of leaky gut syndrome which is the cause of most disease. Gut bacteria get into the blood stream. Thus, if you avoid dairy, grain and sugar and you can avoid leaky gut syndrome.

Cancer - Caused by blockages in the fine blood vessels and lack of vitamins to repair. People who get cancer have bad diets which lack vitamins. Especially vitamin C and D. Again, sugar,grain and dairy are to blame.

https://www.youtube.com...
NightSpeaks

Pro

~~~Opponent's Sources~~~
A] This is a review on a book that does indeed support your claim, but can I ask that you give a source with more weight? I.E. an actual quote from the book itself? I don't have too much to comment on this- it's a pretty good source for supporting a ridiculous argument.

B] The title was intriguing, but none of the arguments in this source about how "corrupt" it is has nothing to do with lies about the science itself. It's simply reprimanding the work ethic and wasted potential.

C] Question: Why do you trust this source? A quick search told me all I need to know- there are no other records of Edward "Fast Eddy" Jenner. However, I can't exactly DISprove the source, so for now I'm not going to consider it at all.

D] A video about how milk is poisonous? Can you explain how this has to do with disproving the total existence of viruses?

~~~Counterattacks~~~
A] Your claim on bureaucratic organizations make sense, but as I previously proved you have no support and, as such, your claim has no support to use. I've taken into account that financial organizations DO have a want to say what they can for money, but they also realize that they can't just lie ALL of the time. They're too smart for that- that's why I trust at the very least the science that they say, because science ISN'T purely monetary.

B] I'm calling bull. There is no overload of the immune system- it's everything that you said that WEAKENS it. As such, the virus (because, yes, it does exist) is able to penetrate the body more easily. What you said about cancer also applies: the immune system is weakened by what you listed, but it's the virus that uses that weakness to give you said disease.

~~~Claims~~~
A) If viruses don't exist, how can diseases exist? Everything you listed can bend and weaken the immune system and your health, but it can't truly cause harm. Modern science is saying that viruses break the body; however, in order to do so, you have to have a weak enough immune system.

B) Can you find me another source of the existence of Edward Jenner? I see no record of him other than the source you already stated. And if you say that the reason I can't find any other records of Edward Jenner is because of government secrets than I also expect a REAL source to go along with that bold claim.

~~~Sources~~~
I didn't feel the need to source anything this time- your sources were enough and my past sources were enough to support me.
Debate Round No. 4
Akhenaten

Con

C. - In regards to small pox vaccine -
'Where is the clinical evidence Cow Pox as an organism was even used? Where are the cohort studies? Where are the Controls? Where is the generational followup? The freaks with licenses to kill who viciously attack those who say that vaccination is insane would REQUIRE such precision in any other realm from any other researcher, but when it comes to spreading the LIE of vaccines these requirements all of a sudden vanish like smoke'.

Note - Vaccines are never researched to see if they are safe or effective. The medical system has double standards when it comes to vaccination. This is because they know that vaccines don't work. This is the reason that vaccines are never tested.
The reason that vaccines don't work is because germs don't cause disease. Disease is just a secondary phase of the body toxicity problem caused initially by a bad diet.

Regardless, viruses don't exist. Bacteria are the only germs that infect the human body via leaky gut syndrome.
Things that are not living can't suddenly spring back to life when they come into contact with fluid. This is ridiculous nonsense science spread by the medical system to trick people into buying medication and drugs. Viruses are just a money making scam.

Finally the coupe de grace.

I video with Stefan Lanka who recently won a court case concerning the existence of viruses.

https://www.youtube.com...

Note - He won!
NightSpeaks

Pro

Watched the video, fairly interesting stuff! However, I did notice that the person who put up the video had other propaganda-related pieces. It doesn't mean I think it isn't an interesting source, it's just that I find it interesting that the person who put up this video in the first place is a flat-earther who doesn't believe in evolution.

Again, you bring up interesting points, but the government system isn't purely monetary. Sure, money is always on their minds when they make decisions, but if you want to get a job with the elite you need to be smart. And anyone with any logic can see that a society that's only built on money would never fly. Health is also important as well, in order to preserve their civilization.

As such, why would they make up the concept of viruses? They make so much money in so many other ways- and science has proven time and time again the existence of viruses.

Also, viruses have been seen under microscopes before.
Check it: https://img.purch.com...=
Debate Round No. 5
23 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by whiteflame 6 months ago
whiteflame
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>Reported vote: KostasT.1526// Mod action: NOT Removed<

3 points to Pro (Arguments). Reasons for voting decision: 5. Both sides initially made convincing arguments. However, Pro has a slight advantage: Con successfully explained the theoretical causes of some viruses. Their main argument was that medical organisations lie in order to gain money. He proved that that does happen in some situation and, to give an example that diseases can be natural, ascribed a certain disease to a volcanic eruption. Pro pointed out that their opponent's main argument does not prove that all viruses are fake, and noticed that a disease caused by volcanic eruption could not be infectious, to which Con did not answer. The burden of proof was on Con, since their claims stand against the commonly accepted facts, and was not fulfilled as they did not prove their point. 6. The sources points are tied, since, on the one hand, Con provided both trustworthy and not authoritative sources (reliable websites and youtube videos, for example), but, on the other, Pro too admitted that some of the sources they cited were not proper.

[*Reason for non-removal*] The voter sufficiently analyzes arguments made by both sides and explains why he believes Con has the burden of proof and how he failed to meet it.

Note: Unless the reporter has some reason why this vote violates the standards, further reports will be ignored.
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Posted by Akhenaten 6 months ago
Akhenaten
Its looks you are in for a big shock when you leave the school system. Money takes precedence over everything including - morality, science, politics, physics and biology. They don't teach you that at school. Think of yourself as a little programmed robot of the system. The Matrix isn't just a movie. That's actually reality, believe it or not.
Posted by KostasT.1526 6 months ago
KostasT.1526
@Akhenaten
I do respect the fact that you are older, and I would take your experience into account if discussing moral issues, politics and so on. But when it comes to science, facts are the factors that distinguish right from wrong. I may not have your experience on life, but I have the required knowledge to debate on scientific topics. Although I am well aware that money indeed runs the world, scientific discoveries can neither be hid nor ignored for it's sake.
Posted by Akhenaten 6 months ago
Akhenaten
You have no experience living in the real world. You are still at school and haven't experienced corruption. I have been there and done that for 50 plus years. Respect your elders who have experience. I worked in the government for 12 years and the university system as well. It is all corrupt from the bottom to the top. Money controls every decision. There is no money in alternatives to germ theory. That's the only reason it is accepted. Governments don't really care if millions of people die prematurely. Governments are full of uncaring and ambitious psychopaths.
Posted by KostasT.1526 6 months ago
KostasT.1526
@Akhenaten
Not at all. The fact that I believe that the earth is not expanding, that the universe has various particles and that viruses exist does not make me a robotic and childish fool in the least. It is not me who believes everything told be a corrupt system, but you who has been indoctrinated by conspiracy theorists into believing every random thing they say.
Don't get it wrong, though. I do not believe that the system is perfect and flawless. It has its issues, but to say that it is so corrupt that scientists hide the truth about all these matters is going too far.
Posted by Akhenaten 6 months ago
Akhenaten
You are just a robotic and childish fool who believes everything you are told by a corrupt system. When you grow up and have a chance to go out into the real world you will eventually see that I was right after all.
Posted by KostasT.1526 6 months ago
KostasT.1526
@Akhenaten
That's only your pathetic excuse for not being able to win a debate. Even an uneducated moron, as you said, is able to point out your inability to argue. Just look at your debates. You can neither present arguments nor process the information you are given by your favourite scientific source, youtube, properly. You just create debates like "the earth is expanding" or "viruses are not real", blindly following all the conspiracy theories you come across, only to lose after your opponent shows how wrong you are. Let me quote you; "lol".
Posted by Akhenaten 6 months ago
Akhenaten
High ratings on this website only indicate a person's lack of morality and debating ability. That's because of uneducated morons who vote because they don't understand the issue and are annoyed at their own ignorance.
Posted by KostasT.1526 6 months ago
KostasT.1526
Stop crying, Akhenaten. You lost. Live with it. You are used to it anyway.
Posted by Akhenaten 6 months ago
Akhenaten
Commonly accepted facts are not always right. That's why we debate. Mob rules, in other words. Is that democracy? None here!!!!
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by KostasT.1526 6 months ago
KostasT.1526
AkhenatenNightSpeaksTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: 5. Both sides initially made convincing arguments. However, Pro has a slight advantage: Con successfully explained the theoretical causes of some viruses. Their main argument was that medical organisations lie in order to gain money. He proved that that does happen in some situation and, to give an example that diseases can be natural, ascribed a certain disease to a volcanic eruption. Pro pointed out that their opponent's main argument does not prove that all viruses are fake, and noticed that a disease caused by volcanic eruption could not be infectious, to which Con did not answer. The burden of proof was on Con, since their claims stand against the commonly accepted facts, and was not fulfilled as they did not prove their point. 6. The sources points are tied, since, on the one hand, Con provided both trustworthy and not authoritative sources (reliable websites and youtube videos, for example), but, on the other, Pro too admitted that some of the sources they cited were not proper.