The Instigator
Runes
Pro (for)
The Contender
MasterDebater5
Con (against)

There is nothing wrong with flying the Confederate flag anywhere.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/20/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 760 times Debate No: 101159
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (14)
Votes (0)

 

Runes

Pro

There is nothing wrong flying the Confederate flag anywhere. NOTHING. No racism, no neo-Nazi support, no slavery support, and no hatred toward African Americans or Black people if you will.
MasterDebater5

Con

It is wrong. It was used a symbol to promote slavery and show the diversion towards the south to the point where states should have their own rights. It is offensive to those who know the story behind it. It was used in an inhumane nature and represented it so. FLying this flag is the promotion of the nature and the promotion of the sad and tragic history it left behind; it is completely and utterly offensive. It is just as offensive as flying a Nazi flag. The actual Nazi sign was originally a Sanskrit svastika symbol for good fortune. The Nazis stole it and used it as their symbol. A child in school would get sent to the principal's office if they was caught drawing it. It as the same as the flag is symbol of something peaceful but the history and how it was used is offensive and horrid.
Debate Round No. 1
Runes

Pro

I will respond to my opponents words and his words will be in italics.

"It was used a symbol to promote slavery" Don't you think the American flag would have flown over slavery longer than the Confederate flag. Think about it, America had slaves since the start, since the 1790s. The Civil War and the Confederate flag, were created seventy years after the American flag. I didn't see the Confederate flag flying over the ships bringing the slaves over. Of course there were different types of confederate flags [1] that could have flown over the slave trade, but none of the versions did. Only the American flag was flown there. So is the donkey for the Democrat's party, but that argument was disproven by a well informed man, who is disagreeing with me in the comments, who goes by the name of Taliesyn.

" It is just as offensive as flying a Nazi flag. The actual Nazi sign..." It's funny you bring up Nazi's. Neo- Nazis today also fly the American flag at meetings. I totally agree, the Swastika is offensive to fly. But we're not talking about that flag. We're talking about the Confederate flag. The Confederate flag is something to fly just because it shows Southern Pride. Not that you want to promote slavery, hate people of a different race, or that you want to secede from the United States of America, it's just a flag that was flown during the Civil War. Sure, it flew over slavery, I'm not denying that, but the Civil War wasn't about slavery, of course, it was an issue, but not the only one, as you indirectly mentioned in your first sentence,"... to the point where states should have their own rights."

Sorces:

[1] http://www.civilwar.com...;
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Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Runes 1 year ago
Runes
I probably could have added another source somewhere, but I'm tired. It's literally 2:00 am and Billy Joel is stuck in my head. Hope that answer doesn't get too much hate from the supporters of my argument.
Posted by Runes 1 year ago
Runes
I completely forgot to check this debate until earlier today, but now I am forming a response now. And I would definitely not use," I don't think it should be banned," as a responding statement.
Posted by Taliesyn 1 year ago
Taliesyn
I wouldn't recommend using any of the Pro arguments shown so far. "I don't think it should be banned" isn't going to win you the debate unless Con is an idiot. :P

And aren't you supposed to be putting your argument together right now?
Posted by Runes 1 year ago
Runes
People in the comments are debating for me, nice.
Posted by Taliesyn 1 year ago
Taliesyn
Try again.

In fact, not only is slavery referenced in every single Article of Secession that gave reasons at all, but it is written right into the Confederate Constitution (http://avalon.law.yale.edu...), as follows:

Article 1, Section 2, Paragraph 3 (carried over the 3/5 Compromise)
Article 1, Section 9, Paragraph 1 (bans international slave trade other than from the US - done to not get blacklisted by UK)
Article 1, Section 9, Paragraph 2 (allows Confed Congress to ban import of slaves from the US)
Article 1, Section 9, Paragraph 4 (bars any and all laws abolishing or weakening slavery)
Article 4, Section 2, Paragraph 1 (defines slaves as property, and specifically bars restrictions on moving slaves across state lines)
Article 4, Section 2, Paragraph 3 (bars the emancipation of escaped slaves)
Article 4, Section 3, Paragraph 3 (institutes slavery in all future territories and states)

On top of that, the top officials in the Confederacy publicly stated that the CSA was founded on slavery. So no, no matter how much you may desperately wish that the Confederacy had nothing to do with slavery, their own Articles of Secession and their Constitution actually enshrined it as the defining feature of the would-be nation.

As to your slander against the Democratic Party, I can only assume you are unaware that in the 1860's, the Democrats were the arch-conservatives, and the brand-new Republican party were the staunch liberals. The problem isn't that Democrats are scum; it's that conservatives are vile creatures who oppose everything that is decent in this world and who have ALWAYS fought for the right to make others suffer for their own gain.
Posted by usawinseverytime 1 year ago
usawinseverytime
It wasn't the confederacy which promoted slavey, but the Democratic Party. The democratic party and the donkey are more horrible than a flag which represented freedom.
Posted by Taliesyn 1 year ago
Taliesyn
Hmm...guess I got carried away there.

Anyway, because of the reasons I laid out, I feel it utterly inappropriate for the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia to be displayed anywhere on government property, save, perhaps, in museums and historical landmarks.
Posted by Taliesyn 1 year ago
Taliesyn
The Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia (aka 'the Confederate flag') represents a nation founded on chattel slavery, which is the institutionalized dehumanization of the black people. As stated in ten of the eleven Articles of Secession, the primary (and usually ONLY) stated cause for the secession of the Confederate states was slavery, both in regards to the North's unwillingness to support slavery laws such as the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850, the growing abolitionist movement in Northern States, and the belief that Lincoln was going to abolish slavery entirely. (The only exception is Virginia, whose Article of Secession basically reads as 'You know why we're doing this'.)

In addition to this inauspicious beginning, the man who was the strongest supporter of the second Confederate flag (the Battle Flag on a white background) said: "As a people,we are fighting to maintain the Heaven-ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause."

Alexander H Stephens, the Vice President of the Confederacy, stated in his 'Cornerstone' speech: "Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition."

In addition, during the defection of Dixiecrats to the Republican Party during the Civil Rights movement of the 1960's, Strom Thurmond, among others, specifically resurrected the Battle Flag as the symbol of resistance to the granting of full rights and citizenship to blacks.

Regardless of the multitude of ways people delude themselves about both the nature of the Civil War and the meaning of the 'Confederate flag', the fact is that that symbol, like the swastika, has been irredeemably tainted by its association with the CSA and its battle to preserve chattel slavery.
Posted by Iacov 1 year ago
Iacov
Side note if it is on public property and flag burning is a recognized form of speech expression could you then burn said flag?
Posted by RC-9282 1 year ago
RC-9282
Its a form of freedom of expression. However, I don't think it should be on government or public property.
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