There is proof that the Christian god exists

You ought to know that whoever accepts this debate should have the burden of proof. All I have to say is that there is no proof, and by default there isn't.

"proof" any factual evidence that helps to establish the truth of something. wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

"The Christian God" According to widely held Christian beliefs, God is in fact, a Godhead, consisting of the Son, the Father, and the Holy Spirit. However, God is undivided, each of these parts constitutes the entirety of God. Ergo, the Son is equivalent to God (the Son being Jesus Christ). Therefore, the person of Jesus Christ IS the Christian God.

"exist" to have actuality. wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

The resolution, therefore, essentially reads: "There is factual, relevant evidence that the person of Jesus Christ has actuality."

A historian named Josephus compiled a history of the Jewish race. In it, he notes: "Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works; a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ..." [1] Another historian, Tacitus, mentions the existence of Jesus Christ [2]. Both instances suggest Christ's existence.

[1] http://wiki.answers.com...
[2] http://www.infidels.org...

Ok then pcmbrown. Thank you for accepting this debate.

First of all, you say that because the holy trinity makes the father, son, and holy spirit undivided. This means that Jesus of Nazareth and the father are the same person.

Second of all, I would like to point out that Jesus of Nazareth must live up to all of his claims. He claims omnipotence, omniscence, and omnibenevolence. He also claims to have created the cosmos as well as this planet in just seven days. If he didn't do that then he cannot be classified as the christian god. Doesn't matter if Jesus existed as a person, his failure to meet these criteria means he didn't exist as the christian god, and therefore his existence doesn't dictate that of the christian god's.

Also, you can't get away with just upholding one of these things. All of these things about Jesus have to be correct.

Now for my arguments.

Jesus of Nazareth did exist as a human being. I'm not saying he didn't which makes your sources irrelavent. The question is whether he was a deity.

Now, how could Jesus have created the cosmos when the cosmos existed before he did? Wasn't jesus born? And how could he be the son of man if he created man? That doesn't sound very legit. On top of that, there's no proof to support any of this.

Also, if Jesus was of flesh and had a mind of a human, how could he have known everything? And how is it mathematically possible to know everything? Did he know every single position of every single particle in the universe? Why did he ask 'the father' "why hast thou forsaken me?" when he died. He had to have known if he was omniscient. As I said before, there is no evidence to support any of this.

Also he claims omnipotence. You ought to know that I like to use the paradox of the stone. Can he create a rock too heavy for him to lift? Can he create a problem too difficult for him to solve? Can he create a being too mean for him to love? Omnipotence not only conflicts itself, but conflicts with omniscience and omnibenevolence.

All of these claims affiliated with the christian god have not been confirmed and therefore cannot be considered factual.

Thank you.

My opponent concedes that the person of Jesus Christ fully constitutes God, in that proof of the Father and the Holy Spirit is unnecessary. However, he claims that I must prove Jesus' omnipotence, omniscience and omnibenevolence. This is not necessary. Christianity is, shall we say...not entirely consistent. Though Christ is attested to constitute God in His entirety, he is not granted the omnipotence and omniscience of God.

Arguments:
1. The Father created the cosmos, as well as man, and subsequently created Jesus. [3]
2. Jesus was never credited with omniscience.
3. Jesus was never credited with omniscience.

Essentially, Jesus is the Christian God. He is stated to be such, though not granted godly qualities. The Christians believe the person of Jesus Christ to be their God, in full. I have proven his existence. Resolution affirmed.

[3] http://en.wikipedia.org...

Very well then. I am struck curious by a few of your arguments.

First of all, the very source you gave said that the christian god was actually made of three seperate people who are all co-eternal and equal and power. That means that the father has the same ability as the son. Even if you don't credit Jesus with the creation of the cosmos (a different person of god did it), he still needs to be credited with omniscience and omnipotence. If he isn't, how can he be the Christian god in full? Yet again, I am asking what evidence is there that Jesus had these attributes.

Also, let's say hypothetically that the Christian god exists. How would you know that Jesus was the son of God? How do you know Moses, Abraham, or even I am not the son of God? There is no evidence supporting him being a deity.

To me your argument is somewhat inconsistent (not to be rude). You even admit that Christianity is not entirely consistent, which I would like you to clarify on. Please explain to me how Jesus can constitute the Christian god in his entirety AND is supposed to be EQUAL to the father and the holy spirit without being credited with the attributes of the Christian god.

Also, for the Christian god to exist, all 3 persons of Him must exist. The disprovement of one means that the Christian god as a whole is disproven (if Jesus or the spirit existed but the father didn't or vice versa).

What evidence is there that the father exists or created the cosmos, earth, or Adam and Eve?

What evidence is there that the holy spirit constantly:

a) convice sinful people to do right
b) brings people to the Christian faith
c) inspires the writing of scriptures and helps other christians interpret these scriptures

What evidence is there that the holy spirit is also responsible for the birth, baptism, and empowerment of the son?

I urge my opponent to answer these questions.

I also urge a CON ballot.

Thank you.

I am not arguing that Christianity follows logic. However, the resolution is true.

My argument is simple. Jesus Christ is revered by Christians as God in his entirety. He exists. Therefore, the Christian God exists.

It is not necessary to prove the existence of the entire trinity. Logically, the resolution is upheld. At any rate, you ought to have brought this up in an earlier round.

Thanks for the debate, thanks for reading, and vote Pro.