The Instigator
PeacefulChaos
Pro (for)
Winning
10 Points
The Contender
MasterKage
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

There is such thing as trying.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
PeacefulChaos
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/10/2012 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 523 times Debate No: 20329
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
Votes (2)

 

PeacefulChaos

Pro

I thank MasterKage in advance for accepting this debate.

BOP-

I, pro, must prove that trying exists.

My opponent, con, must prove that trying does not exist.

Definitions-

Try: to attempt to do or accomplish [1]

No other definitions should be necessary.

Rules-

1. This debate stems off the quote, "Do or do not, there is no try"-Yoda. Thus, the only definition of the word "try" that will be accepted in this debate is the one that is presented above.

2. Although this should not be necessary, there will be no abuse of semantics, loopholes, wordplay, etc.

I look forward to a fun, challenging debate!

[1] http://dictionary.reference.com...

MasterKage

Con

I accept.

Just know that this is for Weirdman's debate tounrament, which the link is: http://www.debate.org....


Debate Round No. 1
PeacefulChaos

Pro


Thanks to MasterKage for showing this is for weirdman’s tourney, which I had forgotten to do.


1. In order to accomplish an action you must put effort into that action.


The definition of the word, “try” states, “to attempt to do or accomplish”. To “attempt” means to “make an effort at.” [2] Thus, to “try” is essentially the same thing as “making an effort.”


If you put no effort into any of your actions, then you cannot accomplish them (i.e. it requires effort to lift a very heavy object). This in itself proves that trying exists, because it is essential that you put effort into an action (or goal) to accomplish it. If you do not try, then you are accepting failure, and this is unacceptable.


1a. In order to master the force, Luke had to try to master it in the first place.


As this debate stems off the quote, “Do or do not, there is no try”, I decided to give an example of an action that requires effort, which is related to Star Wars.


The force is hard to master; you have to train as hard as you can if you want to succeed. I suppose you can consider the training required to master the force as “trying”. So let me rephrase that last statement—you have to try as hard as you can if you want to succeed, do you not? Thus, if you have to try, does that not mean trying exists, regardless of the outcome? The obvious answer to this question is, “yes”.


2. Yoda’s quote contradicts many other quotes.


Yoda has made the claim that trying does not exist; however, there are real people out there who say otherwise. A major example is a quote by Michael Jordan, who said, “I can accept failure, everyone fails at something. But I can’t accept not trying.” [3] (Please note that it is the fourth quote down the list at the time of this post.)


It is evident that Michael Jordan believes in trying. Not only that, but he has made it very clear that he cannot accept not trying. In other words, he cannot accept not putting effort into your actions. If you do otherwise, then you clearly are not passionate about what you do, or perhaps you simply do not like what you do. Thus, according to Michael Jordan and many other real people, trying does exist.


3. How you got to the outcome of a situation is more important than the outcome itself.


To explain the above statement, let us look at an analogy to understand it better.


Let us say you have a difficult math problem that you do not know how to solve. Would you rather get the answer to the problem, or know how to get the answer to the problem? If you simply get the answer, then you will not know what to do if you encounter a similar problem; however, if you can understand how to get the answer to the problem, then you will know what to do on a similar math problem.


The above scenario is similar to the saying, “If you give a man a fish, then you feed him for a day. If you teach a man how to fish, then you feed him for a life time.”


Trying is essential to the process, which in turn is essential to the outcome (as shown above); thus, trying exists, as it is essential to nearly everything we do.


Conclusion-


Are you going to accept failure and not attempt to accomplish your goals and actions, or are you going to try your best and succeed in everything you do? Are you going to believe a fictional character, or are you going to believe a real person?


Trying exists, because if we do not try, then we simply end up failing in our actions. Since we do not fail in all our actions, and we succeed in some actions, then trying exists.


With that said, I hand over the next round to my opponent and wish him luck in his arguments and rebuttals.


[2] http://dictionary.reference.com...


[3] http://www.brainyquote.com...


MasterKage

Con


I thank my opponent for his response.



I will just refute my opponent's arguments.



1) In order to accomplish an action you must put effort into that action.



By putting effort into any action you are doing than you are “doing” that action.



2) Yoda's quote contradicts many other quotes



The fact that Micheal Jackson has a quote that contradicts Yoda's means essentially nothing. Yoda was over 900 years old and extremely wise and Jackson was not wise a bit.



3) How you got to the outcome of a situation is more important than the outcome itself.



In refutation of your scenario, to gather the answered to the problem, you must have essentially known the way to get the answer.



NOTE: I'm going to have to drop out of weirdman's tournament, not this debate as it's interesting, but if I win this actual debate you will go on because I do not have enough time for WM's tournament.


Also, forgive me for my tiny refutations, but I am running out of time today.



Debate Round No. 2
PeacefulChaos

Pro

I apologize for posting my arguments so late. I have been quite busy. Anyways, I will proceed to defend my arguments.

1. In order to accomplish an action you must put effort into that action.

My opponent claims that putting effort into an action is the same as doing the action. This, however, is false. While they may be similar, they are certainly not the same thing. Putting effort into an action is not "doing." The action itself is "doing". The outcome would be the result of that action (also called the "do" or "do not").

For example, let us say that you are lifting a chair. The act of lifting the chair is "doing" the action. The outcome of this action is whether or not you managed to lift the chair. Straining to lift the chair would show that you are putting a lot of effort into lifting up the chair, whereas lifting the chair up with ease shows that you have put little effort into this particular action. It is how you lift up the chair that shows the amount of effort you put into your actions, not lifting the chair up.

Even if putting effort into an action is the same as doing the action (as a hypothetical situation), then Yoda has essentially contradicted himself. Since putting effort (trying) is the same as "doing", then Yoda's quote is essentially, "Do or do not, there is no do." Alternatively, it could be, "Try or try not, there is no try." This is because, (according to my opponent) trying and doing are the same thing (for this hypothetical situation).

2. Yoda's quote contradicts many other quotes.

Please remember that Yoda is nothing more than a fictional character, whereas Michael Jordan is an actual, living person; thus, Michael Jordan is actually much more experienced and much more wise than Yoda is.

3. How you got to the outcome of a situation is more important than the outcome
itself.

It does not matter if you already knew how to get to the answer. The purpose of this argument was to show that trying is essential to the process, which in turn is essential to the outcome; thus, because the process relies on you trying (putting effort into the action and/or process), trying must exist.

Additional Argument-

I previously mentioned this in my conclusion, but I have decided to make it an argument. Trying exists, because if we do not try, then we simply end up failing in our actions. Since we do not fail in all our actions, and we succeed in some actions, then trying exists. It is as simple as that.

Conclusion-

All actions require effort, which means that they require trying. Since this is the case, trying obviously exists.

I am sorry that MasterKage is no longer able to participate in weirdman's tournament. I hope he enjoys this debate, and I wish him luck in his future rebuttals.

I also would like to point out that my computer refuses to let me bold certain statements, so that is why I have not made any bold words and/or characters in this round.

Thank you.
MasterKage

Con

MasterKage forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
PeacefulChaos

Pro

I extend all arguments. I would also like to further reinforce my arguments and prepare for any refutations on my opponent's part.

The most prominent thing that I must point out is that my opponent has not met his BOP (which was agreed upon in the first round). He has failed to produce arguments proving that trying does not exist and has only attempted to refute my arguments. It is also important to realize that no new arguments can be produced in this round, since this is the last round; thus, because my opponent has not and cannot meet the BOP, I have already won this debate.

My opponent will most likely attempt to prove that trying is the same thing as doing. I would like to say that this does not disprove the existence of trying, since it simply shows that trying is the same as doing.

Conclusion-

I am the only one who has put sources in this debate, and I am the only one who has produced arguments in this debate; thus, sources and arguments should go to me. Furthermore, my opponent has forfeited the last round, which is a conduct violation. I apologize for this being so short, but with a lack of arguments and refutations on my opponent's part, there is not much I can do.

With that said, I urge a vote to Pro!


MasterKage

Con

MasterKage forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by vmpire321 2 years ago
vmpire321
lol interesting.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Hardcore.Pwnography 2 years ago
Hardcore.Pwnography
PeacefulChaosMasterKageTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by 16kadams 2 years ago
16kadams
PeacefulChaosMasterKageTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
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Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct=FF Sources pro as he had them Arguments pro as his case was better developed and was more in depth, con had no real arguments either just rebbutals, pro wins.