There isn't any true atheists
Debate Rounds (3)
"Any True Atheists?" by Answers in Genesis
Did you know that there are really no true atheists? So what do we do with people who call themselves atheists?
Consider England's Richard Dawkins, someone we quoted last month. He's perhaps the most outspoken "atheist" in the world. Even Dawkins has admitted, however, that he isn't completely sure about his atheism. On a popular TV program, Dawkins said he doesn't know what happens to us when we die.
People like Dawkins believe we have no purpose in life. They argue that when we die, we simply cease to exist and there is no afterlife. But they can't ultimately be sure about their belief.
God's word clearly states that He has put the knowledge of Himself in us (Romans 1). By the Creator's design, we all know that there is a God, so there are no true atheists!
First of all, Answers in Genesis is not exactly a reliable source because it (like many of the conservative Christians who run it) is notorious for quote mining. Dawkins actually said the following: "I don"t know what happens to us but I know that our consciousness is wrapped up in our brains and I know that our brains rot." Doesn't sound like he is unsure about that, does it? He also said in an interview "Don't imagine for one second you're going to paradise. You're not. You're going to rot in the ground." So the whole Dawkins thing has been ruled out.
Also, a recent (and somewhat inconclusive) study was done showing that only about 32% of atheists believe in an afterlife. That 32% most likely believes in a non-theistic afterlife (not involving a God), which is a view that some people hold. However, there is no universe in which 32 (or anything near it, for that matter) equals 100, so your claim has even less going for it right now. Finally, the Bible is not a reliable source either because it provides no evidence or justification. Just because the Bible says something doesn't make it true. For example, Leviticus 11:6 says "And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you." Now we know that hares do not do this. So much for the infallibility of the Bible. So, to think that everyone knows there's a god is absurd. What about children who die before they can be taught about Christianity? Or people who live in regions of the world where Christianity is not prevalent? Do they know about the Christian God anyway? Or myself, who was never taught anything about any God when I was a child? Did I know that God existed? The simple answer is just no. It's quite absurd to think anything else. I await my opponent's response. Thanks!
Secondly, I should have defined what "atheism" is. The Funk and Wagnall's dictionary defines it as "the belief that there is no God." I assumed that everyone knew what I was referring to by the article--my bad.
Thirdly, I would like to say that agnosticism falls under this category of atheism too. The Funk and Wagnall's dictionary states that "agnosticism" is the "doctrine and philosophical theory that man cannot know God, first truths, or anything beyond material phenomena." I disagree with that which is why I quoted this article concerning the fact that there aren't any true atheists. According to Romans 1, God shows each of us Himself in different ways--so that we each know about God (whether or not we choose to believe it is another thing). Romans 1:20 states, "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse"--that includes those from the farthest corners of the earth who have never "heard" or "been introduced" to God formally.
Fourthly, I found the original audio bit from Answers in Genesis. The article doesn't deviate from it, but for those who would like to hear it: https://answersingenesis.org.... I also found a note about Richard Dawkins and what he said on Ken Ham's blog: https://answersingenesis.org....
For my opponent who accused Answers in Genesis of "quote mining," it seems like it only would have been fair for them to include the whole argument made between Richard Dawkins and his opponent, not just a few chosen statements made by Dawkins. If Christians can be accused of "quote mining", the other side can be accused of the same thing too. (So--thought for the day--include the whole argument to avoid "cherry picking." :P) As for conversation Richard Dawkins had, it can be found on the second link that I included.
Fifthly, I would like to highlight that Richard Dawkins (both in the conversation I included from Ken Ham's blog and from my opponent's statements) said he "didn't know what happened to us after we die." Yes, our body rots, I get that. But what he seems to highlight is whether or not we have a soul and that soul goes to heaven or not. I would be happy to discuss that in a separate discussion, but I will not discuss that now. The question is whether or not there are any "true atheists."
Sixthly, don't you find it kind of ironic that only 32% of atheists believe in an afterlife? Since you suppose (I'm assuming "rightly"?) that they do not believe in a God, what kind of afterlife is there? Colossians 1:16-7 states "For by Him, all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things and in Him all things consist." If that is so, then what creation of an afterlife is going to exist without God? God has created all things and is in all things with or without mankind. Everything we have ever known or experienced here on earth came from God, both the good and the bad. Look at Lamentations 3:37-8, "Who is he who speaks and it comes to pass, when the Lord has not commanded it? Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that woe and well-being proceed?" This is not to say that God is both good and bad, but that He controls both events for our good (Romans 8:28--"And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.").
Seventhly (I have a lot of points here :)), rabbits do apparently "chew the cud." I'm glad my opponent brought it up because I learned something new today! Here's the link: https://answersingenesis.org.... Rabbits do re-ingest their food; they just happen to do it differently than cows. Apparently (the article explains it in more detail), rabbits ingest their food the first time, then promptly poop it out. Then they go back a second time, ingest their partially ingested food (in the form of pellets) and then re-dispose of it. So unless you come up with another point, the validity of the Bible still stands.
(Also, Jews were given the right to eat the previously declared "unclean" foods in Acts 10--specifically vs 10-6.)
Eightthly, as for the host of questions that my opponent offers, I will try to answer each one. (Be aware though these questions don't have really anything to do with my original topic of "There's aren't any true atheists). The Bible doesn't say (that I know of) where do unborn babies go when they die in their mother's womb. There are several references (I'm reminded of Job and Jeremiah) where they state that they go to a place of rest (ie: Job 3:16-9 in specifically). So according to that verse, unborn babies go to a place of rest, which I'm assuming is with God, since God offers the ultimate peace and rest (ie: Philippians 4:6-7; Hebrews 3:18-9).
As for regions of the world where Christianity is not prevalent, they know there is a God--that's what the Answers in Genesis article was referencing. If you look at Romans 1 (or the Ken Ham blog), it states that God shows us Himself, even His eternal power and Godhead, so we are without excuse (vs 18-20). So it doesn't matter if we have formal teaching in God's word or have never met a Christian evangelist, we know Him, God's word states.
As for yourself, you may not have attributed it to God, but you knew. God moves with different people in different ways. Since I don't know you outside of this debate, I can't exactly pinpoint how God revealed Himself to you, but I can rest confident in the knowledge He did. When I go to the grocery store and I find a parking place close to the store, I know that was God, keeping me so I don't have to walk as far. If you drive, I'm certain you know the same thing.
Here's my very long response. Since the original topic was "There aren't any true atheists," my suggestion is that we stick to it, because we only have 2 rounds left and also, we are getting deviated from the original topic by all these (interesting, but deviating) red herrings.
tsiehtA forfeited this round.
tsiehtA forfeited this round.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by AlternativeDavid 1 year ago
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Reasons for voting decision: I've never done this before, but I have to give this debate to somebody who forfeited almost every round. Conduct goes to Pro due to the forfeits. S&G is tied because both parties had reasonably good grammar. Arguments goes to Con. Pro's only arguments were based on the Bible, and Con used actual statistics and logic. Con's inquiries about what happens to people who have never heard of a higher power went untouched by Pro. Con also showed that 68% of of Atheists believe that once we're dead that we're done. Even if 1% believed that then Pro's claim would still be falsified. Finally, most of Pro's arguments were completely irrelevant to the debate. It doesn't matter what Ken Ham, a Christian, thinks about Atheists. Only an Atheist can possibly know if there are any true Atheists. Con proved that at least one Atheist strongly believes that there is no afterlife/diety, so he wins. Sources go to Con because Pro's sources were mostly from the Bible. The Bible had nothing to do with this.
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