The Instigator
brian_eggleston
Pro (for)
Winning
19 Points
The Contender
JoeBob
Con (against)
Losing
9 Points

There's more aggro up in Heaven* than at a pikey's wedding.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/14/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 829 times Debate No: 4678
Debate Rounds (2)
Comments (7)
Votes (8)

 

brian_eggleston

Pro

Okay, I realise that the words "aggro" and "pikey" are not universally understood in the English-speaking world so just to clarify, "aggro" means violence and a "pikey" is a non-Romany gypsy with a propensity to start fights.

Now, please allow me to make a few observations:

Heaven* has existed since the dawn of time.

Heaven* will exist until the end of time.

God* will not discriminate against babies, or pre-Christian era people, or people living in tree-houses in Borneo, or anybody else that never got a chance to "know Him" and will let them into Heaven* even though they weren't practicing Christians on Earth.

Right, okay, now let's cut to the chase.

Imagine, if you will, that I turned over a new leaf, gave up drinking, smoking and womanising and became instead a devout and pious Christian.

Now when I died, I'd rightly expect to St. Peter* to be waiting at the Pearly Gates* with a welcome glass of Champagne, a selection of canap�s, a Cuban cigar and a couple of topless angels* ready to show me to my quarters and give me a full massage (with "extras" thrown in, compliments of the house).

Quite right too, given the sacrifices I made down on Earth and it all sound s very agreeable, doesn't it? But wait, all is not sweetness and light. No, because Heaven* has existed for all time, there will be a lot of deceased cavemen souls wondering about, dragging women around by the hair, clobbering people with stone clubs and generally behaving in an anti-social manner. They cannot be blamed for their distinctly un-Christian behaviour however, because they lived at a time before Christianity was invented.

That said, deceased Christians would not tolerate such barbarism and would wade into the cavemen with fists flying – it would be like a pikey's wedding up there. Not only that, but, in times to come, the souls of more refined and sophisticated future-humans will arrive and regard our own generation's behaviour as barbaric and it would all kick off with them as well.

Perhaps we'd have to settle our differences with the cavemen and form an alliance to defeat those snobby future-human souls, who knows, but one thing is for sure, there is going to be a hell of lot of aggro in the afterlife.

* Supposing such an entity exists.
JoeBob

Con

What an excellent topic Brian!

Very well, I will *prove* that Heaven is less violent than a non-Romany gypsy wedding.

First, since Heaven is the only zip code for an ever-increasing population of "good" people, and has existing forever and will exist forever as my opponent has posited, then we must conclude that Heaven is of considerable size. Scientists have yet to prove whether Heaven is in fact flat or round, but regardless of its shape, it must have either a great deal of horizontal real estate (for people unfamiliar with big buildings) or a great deal of pre-fabricated vertical real estate (Holy Skyscrapers).

Either way, there must be a ridiculous amount of square footage, or an ever-increasing square footage. This would easily allow people to spread out all over Heaven and get as far away from everyone that they don't like.

Now, I would expect a lot of lazy people or new arrivals may be found camped out just inside the Pearly Gates. But after a century or two, it is reasonable to think people would get bored, or their friends and relatives would show up, and they would start to wander around and see the sights. After a lifetime of hardship, would you really want to bother putting up a fight with a Spartan or a Hun when you could just keep walking? After all, it's Heaven. All parts are equally perfect. If there is a smelly barbarian near you, you can just go somewhere else that's perfect.

Not even the most bellicose barbarian would deliberately run all over Heaven in search of conflict. Why bother? His needs are met. He has Heavenly food and shelter and company.

So while there may be some minor tussles in the suburbs of the Gates, it is unlikely that there would be significant human conflict throughout Paradise.

Second, scientists to date have not successfully quantified the levels of violence present at the average non-Romany gypsy wedding. Tragically, all field researchers have been killed before reporting their findings. Thus we must estimate the levels of violence as "Very High Indeed," which would be significantly higher than Heaven's "Not So Bad on Most Days" rating.
Debate Round No. 1
brian_eggleston

Pro

Hmmm, on the face of it, my opponent's argument would seem to be quite logical. If you don't like the barbarians, just move to another equally perfect part of Heaven, after all, the place is big enough for everybody to avoid anybody they don't like.

Now the trouble is with that is that the barbarians will not generally conform to modern moral ethics (remember God only let them into Heaven because they lived before the Bible was written and therefore didn't know any better). Furthermore, the Lord is all forgiving. This means you could walk out of a celestial shopping mall and be confronted by a mob of barbarians who will deprive you of your freshly-baked Manna from Heaven, just out of pure spite. They could nick your bread, then wait for you by Halo-Mart, Harps "R" Us and the afterlife ATM and rob time and again, just for a laugh, and it'd be no good complaining to Jesus, because he would just turn round to the leader of the barbarian and say: "I forgive you my child" and let him off!

Therefore, it will be necessary to take matters into our own hands and organise the modern human souls into groups of vigilantes to protect the righteous from ecumenical outlaws like the barbarians.

Now, the barbarian thugs will be armed with stone clubs so it will be important to get tooled-up ourselves. I don't suppose there will be any gun shops in Heaven so we will have put the window of a liturgical liquor store through and make off with a few crates of communion wine. Once this has been drunk, we could smash the ends off the bottles and use them to glass those pre-Biblical b^stards.

Now, when that all kicks off it'll make a pikey's wedding look like a Sunday school outing!
JoeBob

Con

What my well-spoken opponent has failed to consider is the fact that God is obviously a communist, and not a capitalist. This is evidenced by the fact that there is only one Heaven for everyone, and not a selection of "Luxury," "Standard," or "Economy" Heavens for different classes of people. And since Heaven is obviously a communist enclave, and has existed for a very long time, we can safely conclude that by now any semblance of industry has failed and there are now no stores, shops, or venues of any kind. Thus, there is nothing to buy or steal in Heaven.

Also, my opponent has overlooked the fact that barbarians are barbarians by circumstance: they live in harsh societies in harsh climates that require strength and ruthlessness to survive. But since everyone in Heaven is dead, such qualities will no longer be required. In fact, history has shown "barbarian" cultures to be quite civilized when they could afford to be. Scandinavia, for example, produced the world-shaking Vikings, but at home the Scandinavians valued hospitality and law above all else. And logically, since everyone will be "at home" in Heaven (as I don't believe you are allowed out of this particular gated community, even during the day), then the barbarians won't ever have an opportunity to go all "smashy-smashy" on us.

Lastly, God has proven in previous encounters to prefer the maintenance order (See: Cherubs with flaming swords protecting the Tree of Life, The Expulsion of Renegade Angels, and The Great "Scrubbing" That Only Noah Survived). So while God may indeed forgive transgressors, it is highly likely that troublesome folks may find themselves confined to the Purgatorial Penalty Box if they get too rowdy. Sources close to the Son of God report that the Purgatorial Penalty Box is "not nearly as bad as Hell, but still you wouldn't really want to be there if you had the choice, I mean, they have chairs there but the chairs are really uncomfortable..."

Thus, Heaven cannot be as violent as my opponent claims. Vote Con!
Debate Round No. 2
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by brian_eggleston 8 years ago
brian_eggleston
Yes, cheers Xera, and thanks for a great debate JoeBob!
Posted by JoeBob 8 years ago
JoeBob
Thanks for the note Xera!
Posted by Xera 8 years ago
Xera
Very entertaining gentlemen. I am going to have to vote Con here since Pro did in fact fail to provide any evidence as to the exact scale of aggro found at said weddings, but you were both BRILLIANT in your arguments.
Posted by Rezzealaux 8 years ago
Rezzealaux
RPG as in Role Playing Game. IE Guild Wars or World of Warcraft.

Aggro means to be "seen" by a hostile NPC that will attack you pre-emptively.
Posted by brian_eggleston 8 years ago
brian_eggleston
Top link, Rezzealaux!

B/t/w - doesn't RPG stand for Rocket-Propelled Grenade? I know that kids in America habitually take guns to school, but playing with RPG's must make the schoolyards a tad dicey!
Posted by Rezzealaux 8 years ago
Rezzealaux
lol. If you've played an RPG, you know what aggro means.

Semi-Related, but I believe everyone will find this interesting: http://www.pedagonet.com...
Posted by bexy_kelly 8 years ago
bexy_kelly
Heaven* is way tamer then a pikeys wedding... not that I have any experience of either I swear! :O
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Vote Placed by Xera 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by brian_eggleston 8 years ago
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