The Instigator
Sundial
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
donald.keller
Con (against)
Winning
7 Points

There should be a civil suit against Zimmerman

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
donald.keller
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/19/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 669 times Debate No: 35763
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
Votes (1)

 

Sundial

Pro

I refute the Pros argument that Zimmerman acted in self defense by using his gun to shoot unarmed Trayvon Martin.When the Police Dispatcher told Zimmerman not to follow Martin he should have follow orders instead he pursued the teen.We know that crimes were being committed in the neighborhood that Zimmerman was patrolling mainly by blacks prior to killing Trayvon Martin and so, he stereotyped all blacks in the neighborhood as being law breakers meaning, black men to follow Trayvon Martin that fateful night.
From photos, transcripts and other permissible evidence Trayvon was just visiting his mother's boyfriend.Trayvon happened to be the bad lucky one at Zimmerman's prey.
We should look at Zimmerman's propensity for violence which is relevant to this argument his arrest for battery on a law enforcement officer, his injunction to prevent domestic violence taken out by his ex girlfriend and evidence of his training as a bouncer for Data Whore Productions.
Pro should understand the justice system is broken especially for blacks why, because pertaining to Zimmerman and Martin Case, Zimmerman defense team were only suppose to use photos or videos relevant or admissible at the trial of which they did not do
and secondly, the defense team kept talking to the media that made it difficult to find impartial jurors. Thirdly, Zimmerman claim of stand your ground should not have been grounds for his acquittal he
should not have followed Martin when the police dispatcher told him not to he only stereotyped Martin for the way he looked, the black guy with the hooded shirt and decided to pursue him.
The justice system failed Trayvon Martin and the NAACP and the parents of Trayvon Martin should pursue a civil case against Zimmerman. Sundial
donald.keller

Con

I accept... Again. Let's begin Cross-Examination.

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"I refute the Pros argument that Zimmerman acted in self defense by using his gun to shoot unarmed Trayvon Martin."

That doesn't refute my claim. Claiming he used a gun to shoot Trayvon doesn't answer whether or not it was Self Defense. Nor is this relevant to the Resolution about a Civil Suit.

"When the Police Dispatcher told Zimmerman not to follow Martin he should have follow orders instead he pursued the teen."

Yes, we know Zimmerman did something inadvisable, but it was neither illegal, nor done out of racial profiling (I will explain later). The exact words the Dispatcher used were "We don't need you to do that." The Dispatcher never said he couldn't, just that it wasn't necessary.

Zimmerman likely chose to follow due to a history of people fleeing and getting away before police arrive. 3 weeks before the shooting took place, Zimmerman called 911 to report a young man peering into the windows of a home. Zimmerman was informed that a police car would arrive soon. Zimmerman waited, and by the time police arrived, the suspect had fled.

"We know that crimes were being committed in the neighborhood that Zimmerman was patrolling mainly by blacks prior to killing Trayvon Martin and so, he stereotyped all blacks in the neighborhood as being law breakers meaning, black men to follow Trayvon Martin that fateful night"

To start, yes crimes were being committed by black people, as a fellow Neighbor Watch told reporters that there had been several break-ins where Black teens were involved.(a)

a) http://www.thedailybeast.com...

You cannot confuse racial profiling with logical profiling. If you know the person doing the crimes is a young black male, you're not going to accuse the white man next to you as to avoid offending someone.

He obviously didn't stereotype blacks in the area... Anyone who bothered doing real research knows this. He had a history of helping black people in the neighborhood, had a fair share of black friends and family, and even had a black prom date.(b) Your claim that Zimmerman racially stereotyped Martin is unwarranted. You need to review the 911 Transcript.(c)

b) http://www.examiner.com...
c) http://www.documentcloud.org...

"From photos, transcripts and other permissible evidence Trayvon was just visiting his mother's boyfriend.Trayvon happened to be the bad lucky one at Zimmerman's prey."

Trayvon could have been living there, it doesn't matter. This is irrelevant to the case, and to George Zimmerman's encounter with Trayvon.

"We should look at Zimmerman's propensity for violence which is relevant to this argument his arrest for battery on a law enforcement officer, his injunction to prevent domestic violence taken out by his ex girlfriend and evidence of his training as a bouncer for Data Whore Productions."

For starters, the Persecution pulled this, and the Judge dismissed it, claiming something that happened in a relationship 8 years ago (at the age of 21) is irrelevant, calling the incidents mild.(a) Domestic Violence can be as small as a push. While not okay, it doesn't prove Zimmerman to be aggressive.

The issue with the Police Officer was also irrelevant. Lightly "pushing" a police officer at the age of 21 does not warrant such an accusation either.(b)

a) http://www.reuters.com...
b) http://www.cnn.com...

Being a Bouncer does not prove someone to be aggressive. That is wrongful profiling. Zimmerman was a Bouncer up until he was 21. Like the Judge said, you can not judge a person for something they did or was that long ago and at such an age (when they are months away from being 30.)

"Pro should understand the justice system is broken especially for blacks why, because pertaining to Zimmerman and Martin Case, Zimmerman defense team were only suppose to use photos or videos relevant or admissible at the trial of which they did not do
and secondly, the defense team kept talking to the media that made it difficult to find impartial jurors."

To start, the Defense may use anything the Judge deems relevant. The fact that the Jury was not sure if Zimmerman was guilty, therefore did not persecute him, shows that the System works... That no one may be Guilty until proven Innocent, even to please the angry mobs.

Remember that Zimmerman isn't white. He is Hispanic. Calling him a White Hispanic is like calling Obama a White Black.

Secondly, I do not feel the Media made anything easier for Zimmerman. If anything, it would have been harder to find Jurors that didn't hate Zimmerman.

The System wasn't 'broken especially for blacks' during the OJ Simpson case. Accusing the System of being broke just because you don't like it's verdict is immature. That kind of attitude only sets Race Relations back. You based your accusation on the fact that you didn't win, again, immature.

"Thirdly, Zimmerman claim of stand your ground should not have been grounds for his acquittal he
should not have followed Martin when the police dispatcher told him not to he only stereotyped Martin for the way he looked, the black guy with the hooded shirt and decided to pursue him."

Again, the Police Dispatcher did not say not to follow, just that it wasn't necessary. There is quite a difference.

He didn't stereotype Martin. Martin looked suspicious, and matched the description in terms of Race and Age. Again, a difference between Racial Profiling and Logical Profiling. If you know the person committing crimes is a young black person, you do not go after an elderly white person to avoid offending Black youth.

"The justice system failed Trayvon Martin and the NAACP and the parents of Trayvon Martin should pursue a civil case against Zimmerman."

Again, claiming the Justice System failed, when it did its job... The Justice System has the job of NOT accusing people before they are proven guilty. The fact that they did not sentence a man away because the Prosecution couldn't prove he was guilty only shows it worked.

"That it is better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer, is a Maxim that has been long and generally approved." - Benjamin Franklin

To be honest the NAACP has failed black people more than Zimmerman has. The NAACP has a habit of only helping people in cases that are popular enough to give them Media attention. We see this when they refused to help Sherman Ware, a homeless black man who was assaulted by an Officer's son. They didn't get involved until it reached enough popularity, but they knew about it the whole time, and even had an office in that very city. How did they learn about it? One of the few people who was trying to help the poor man informed them when requesting their help. Who was this person requesting the NAACP's aid and helping a homeless black man? George Zimmerman.(a)

a) http://dailycaller.com...

-------------------------------------------------------

Let's define Civil Suit...

Civil Suit - Noun
A lawsuit alleging violations of civil law by the defendant(a)

So what is a Civil Law?

Civil Law - Noun
The law of civil or private rights(b)

a) http://www.thefreedictionary.com...
b) http://www.merriam-webster.com...

One does not violate anothers Civil and Private Rights by confronting them in public. One also does not violate said rights by keeping an eye out on something or someone they found suspicious in public.

And No, George Zimmerman was not 'self-appointed'... The neighbors elected him Neighborhood Watch Coordinator. While that's not relevant, I wanted to mention it before you made the claim that he was self appointed.
Debate Round No. 1
Sundial

Pro

I refute the Pros argument that Zimmerman acted in self defense by using his gun to shoot unarmed Trayvon Martin.When the Police Dispatcher told Zimmerman not to follow Martin he should have follow orders instead he pursued the teen.We know that crimes were being committed in the neighborhood that Zimmerman was patrolling mainly by blacks prior to killing Trayvon Martin and so, he stereotyped all blacks in the neighborhood as being law breakers meaning, black men to follow Trayvon Martin that fateful night.
From photos, transcripts and other permissible evidence Trayvon was just visiting his mother's boyfriend.Trayvon happened to be the bad lucky one at Zimmerman's prey.
We should look at Zimmerman's propensity for violence which is relevant to this argument his arrest for battery on a law enforcement officer, his injunction to prevent domestic violence taken out by his ex girlfriend and evidence of his training as a bouncer for Data Whore Productions.
Pro should understand the justice system is broken especially for blacks why, because pertaining to Zimmerman and Martin Case, Zimmerman defense team were only suppose to use photos or videos relevant or admissible at the trial of which they did not do
and secondly, the defense team kept talking to the media that made it difficult to find impartial jurors. Thirdly, Zimmerman claim of stand your ground should not have been grounds for his acquittal he
should not have followed Martin when the police dispatcher told him not to he only stereotyped Martin for the way he looked, the black guy with the hooded shirt and decided to pursue him.
The justice system failed Trayvon Martin and the NAACP and the parents of Trayvon Martin should pursue a civil case against Zimmerman. Sundial
donald.keller

Con

The Pro has failed to address my prior argument in any way, and as only copy/pasted his R1 argument.

I'll give him R3 to actually discuss my points. Do not waste it.
Debate Round No. 2
Sundial

Pro

Sundial forfeited this round.
donald.keller

Con

Vote Con!
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by donald.keller 3 years ago
donald.keller
I forgot to mention that POB is on the Pro, who must prove Zimmerman violated the defendants civil or private rights.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 3 years ago
Ragnar
Sundialdonald.kellerTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: *votebomb* First of all I'm considering this an FF (Full Forfeit, as opposed to regular) due to pro making the worst circular reasoning argument ever (literally copy/paste their own previous round, instead of responding to anything). Conduct: FF. S&G: Periods do not replace spaces, they are meant to be in addition to a space. Argument: FF. Sources: Con used them (as much as I am not actually reviewing them, given the weak state of everything else).