The Instigator
DylanAsdale
Pro (for)
Losing
7 Points
The Contender
Ragnar_Rahl
Con (against)
Winning
22 Points

There should be a law passed to make desecration of the US flag illegal.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/17/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,666 times Debate No: 5439
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (17)
Votes (6)

 

DylanAsdale

Pro

Desecrating the United States flag is ridiculous.

Ruining the symbol representing all of the hardships the American people have faced, and all of the men and women who have fought so hard for our freedom, is outrageous.

A law should be passed to make burning the flag of the United States flag illegal.
Ragnar_Rahl

Con

"Ruining the symbol representing all of the hardships the American people have faced, and all of the men and women who have fought so hard for our freedom, is outrageous."

I agree. Ruining that symbol by making it the symbol of oppression, by socializing (placing under state control) every last bit of fabric that bears it, by making it the vanguard for the destruction of free speech, is an outrage to every man and woman who has ever fought for our freedom.
Debate Round No. 1
DylanAsdale

Pro

The men of our great nation have always fought for what the American flag stands for. They have not fought for the ability to desecrate it.

How can ruining a symbol of all our nation stands for, be considered a "right" or "free speech"?

Take terrorism. Is that free speech? Should we allow terrorists to partake in their own activities? Of course not. Any thinking otherwise would be atrocious. So why should we allow the desecration of the flag of our nation?
Ragnar_Rahl

Con

"The men of our great nation have always fought for what the American flag stands for."
The American Flag stands for individual rights, however diluted these may be. Individual rights are life, liberty, and property. If I buy a piece of cloth with that pattern on it, it is MY property, to do with as I wish.

"They have not fought for the ability to desecrate it."
Yes, in fact, they have fought for the ability to do as you please with what is yours.
And socializing fabric would desecrate any symbol far more than submerging it in fire, the symbol of human reason.

"How can ruining a symbol of all our nation stands for, be considered a "right" or "free speech"?
"
Because the symbol just happens to be on the piece of fabric I bought. It is eminently MINE.

"
Take terrorism. Is that free speech? "
No. A terrorist does not burn their own property. They burn or bomb someone else's property. See the difference?

"So why should we allow the desecration of the flag of our nation?
"
First, since you are the one advocating legal action, in any civilized society YOU have the burden of proof- innocent until proven guilty. Second, allowing it to be desecrated is far less of a problem than actually desecrating it ourselves, as you propose, by making it a symbol of a totalitarian state that does not recognize private property rights.
Debate Round No. 2
DylanAsdale

Pro

DylanAsdale forfeited this round.
Ragnar_Rahl

Con

A is A, man is man, freedom is freedom, America is America, and a forfeit is a forfeit.
Debate Round No. 3
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 8 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
"with flag desecrating you, by theory, are giving up your american rights by destroying the symbol of the nation that gives you those rights..."

"give" contradicts "rights."

"and ragnar, your point is good, but not valid. when refering to "we" with america, it automatically means, we the people."
No such thing as "we the people." That's the fallacy of the ambigous collective :D.
Posted by CoronerPerry 8 years ago
CoronerPerry
and ragnar, your point is good, but not valid. when refering to "we" with america, it automatically means, we the people. we are one with our past

same reason we are affected by past racism
Posted by CoronerPerry 8 years ago
CoronerPerry
with flag desecrating you, by theory, are giving up your american rights by destroying the symbol of the nation that gives you those rights...
Posted by knick-knack 8 years ago
knick-knack
When you desecrate a flag, you are desecrating the symbol of our nation.
You are desecrating the beliefs and rights that this nation was founded on.
You are desecrating the right of free speech. The government and country that lets you exercise that right.
It's completely hypocritical.

Ragnar makes a good point.

But it still doesn't change my opinion.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 8 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
"
the flag represents what america IS,"

Which you claim to be...?

"and what we went through together."
Umm... we didn't go through anything together. Everyone who was around at the time our flag was invented is now dead. They, perhaps went through something together. Not "we."

So, am I going to see some reasoning, or is this the work of the CWO?
Posted by CoronerPerry 8 years ago
CoronerPerry
regardless of who, or where you are...

desecrating a flag on american soil is completely wrong.

this is not only an opinion, this is a FACT.

it is unamerican to desecrate a flag.

if you want to desecrate an american flag in iran, go right ahead, but if you are living in america, and you desecrate a flag, you deserve to have your citizenship taken away from you. if you are a visitor, you deserve to have your green card withdrawn.

the flag represents what america IS, and what we went through together.

go ahead and leave if you hate america enough to desecrate our flag!!!!
Posted by knick-knack 8 years ago
knick-knack
Ragnar-

It doesn't matter where you burn a cross, or what is in American History.

Who said anything about a sidewalk

And yes if its not in public its ok, you are right about that.
Posted by Ragnar_Rahl 8 years ago
Ragnar_Rahl
"knick-knack
When in front of a Catholic church, you can't burn a cross, it's considered hate speech."

Actually, last I checked burning crosses in the US was something hate groups would do in front of homes occupied by black people- not in front of catholic churches.

Secondly, the cross burner most likely does not own the sidewalk in question.

Thirdly, people have a right to speak, even hatefully, as long as they do it in a location that is theirs to be in.
Posted by s0m31john 8 years ago
s0m31john
"There should be a law passed to make [freedom] illegal."

There you go, I typed what you really meant.
Posted by Sweatingjojo 8 years ago
Sweatingjojo
I don't think its hate speech.
It would probably bother me, but just because something bothers most people doesn't mean it shouldn't be allowed.

Its called liberty.
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by wpfairbanks 6 years ago
wpfairbanks
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Vote Placed by knick-knack 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by DylanAsdale 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by Labrat228 8 years ago
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Vote Placed by PoeJoe 8 years ago
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