The Instigator
believer_720
Pro (for)
Losing
12 Points
The Contender
dxpilot
Con (against)
Winning
15 Points

There should not be any type of ban on Abortion

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/28/2008 Category: News
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,266 times Debate No: 2979
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (9)

 

believer_720

Pro

First of all, I'd like to welcome dxpilot to this debate.

I would first like to state that, there are many reasons there should not be a ban on abortion. First of all, it is the mother's choice, and the mother's choice alone. Simple as that.

Post-abortion guilt. These effects do not always take place. Suppose a woman got raped, and she was worried about the child she was to have. She could, very easily, feel relief in getting an abortion, knowing that there will not be any other long-term effects.

Although this seems a bit immoral, I do not think a growing fetus should be considered a human. Just like an apple seed should not be considered an apple tree.

And although this seems just as immoral, it is not an independet creature. It lives much like a parisite, living off of it's host.

Some may say that, when a pregnant mother is killed, it is counted as double murder. And because of this, there should be a ban, right?
Wrong. It has often been proven that medical laws and procedures, can very much differ from the laws upheld in the courtroom.

Prove me wrong.
dxpilot

Con

Well, first of all, i would like to say that believer does post some good ideas, but he shows many flaws in his answers.

First of all, he says that the choice to abort the child is the mothers choice, and the mothers choice only. Thats wrong because 1.) shouldnt the father have a say in the abortion of the child? and 2.)wouldnt you be mad if you were killed for just growing and doing nothing and out of nowhere, something just comes up and sucks up your limbs? i would

post abortion guilt doesnt always happen, i know that. but even if you experience a bad experience, it isnt the childs fault. and if you believe that the child is to blame, you can still give it a chance to grow in a fauster house.

And if a women gets murdered, the child must be in the second tri-mester for the murder to be counted as a double-murder.

I do see your point that a growing fetus shouldn't be seen as a person but it is considered a GROWING person, showing that the fetus is a living thing.
Debate Round No. 1
believer_720

Pro

dxpilot made some good points, but there are several flaws in his responses.

"1.) shouldnt the father have a say in the abortion of the child?"
Most abortions that happen are because the father isn't there. It usually occurs in rape victims.

"2.)wouldnt you be mad if you were killed for just growing and doing nothing and out of nowhere, something just comes up and sucks up your limbs? i would"
Sorry, but I don't think you would. Fetus' cannot feel pain, or for that matter, emotions while they're in the womb.

"but even if you experience a bad experience, it isnt the childs fault. and if you believe that the child is to blame, you can still give it a chance to grow in a fauster house."
For some, if the child is a result of a bad experience, the fetus would only serve as a painful reminder for the mother. Some women could possibly be afraid of giving birth. To those who aren't, kudos to them. But for those who are, a safe abortion should be available to them, because the Bill of Rights entitles every US Citizen to the "Highest standard of health".

And another reason why abortions should not be limited or banned; What if an ultrasound test shows that the fetus were to be born with some kind of disease that would make life for the child very painful and short? Wouldn't you then see an abortion as a mercy kill?
dxpilot

Con

first of all, i was unclear on what i meant on many of my issues.

1.) when i meant that the father should have a say in the abortion of the child, it was to say that the decision on abortion shouldnt be just the decision of the mother. and even if the father isnt involved, the child who would one day be a grown person, he is still being affected so he should have a say.

2.) my opponent also made a mistake in his statements. "Sorry, but I don't think you would. Fetus' cannot feel pain, or for that matter, emotions while they're in the womb." you would feel MUCH pain if you were in the end of the 3rd month because by then your nervous system is already funtioning as well as your digestive system ( thats why you can see a physical change in the mother).

Believer also said that the fetus would only serve as a painful reminder for the mother. wouldnt the mother have a more painful reminder of her taking the life of her offspring.

As for his statement on a diseased child, there really isnt a way to see that the child has a disease until the end of the 2nd trimester, in which the child is almost fully developed, it just has to grow more. and even a mercy kill is wrong because you never know if there will be a cure discovered for the disease over the course of the childs life.
Debate Round No. 2
believer_720

Pro

"when i meant that the father should have a say in the abortion of the child, it was to say that the decision on abortion shouldnt be just the decision of the mother."

And why shouldn't it be? You have yet to support this claim at all, dxpilot. Let's suppose a girl got pregnant, and the boyfriend left her because of it. Who else is there? What right would her friends have to tell her whether or not to abort their child? The parents could agree, and if they don't, what power would they have to tell their child not get an abortion? They are an adult, after all. If the father isn't present, there really isn't anyone that can have a part in the decision. Sure, they can put in their opinion, but in the end, it's the choice of the mother and the choice of the mother alone.

"and even if the father isnt involved, the child who would one day be a grown person, he is still being affected so he should have a say."

And do you have a plan for making that work? How would the fetus have a say in whether or not the mother gets an abortion?

"you would feel MUCH pain if you were in the end of the 3rd month because by then your nervous system is already funtioning as well as your digestive system ( thats why you can see a physical change in the mother)."

According to an online medical journal, a predicted 4 out of 100000 abortions are done during the third trimester of pregnancy.

"Believer also said that the fetus would only serve as a painful reminder for the mother. wouldnt the mother have a more painful reminder of her taking the life of her offspring."

It depends on the mindset of the mother. If she believes that she wants to do everything she can to get the memory out of her head, she would not likely feel guilty. If it is an accidental pregnancy, by a boyfriend or husband, than guilt would be more of a factor.

"As for his statement on a diseased child, there really isnt a way to see that the child has a disease until the end of the 2nd trimester, in which the child is almost fully developed, it just has to grow more."

This is true, although you seem to have forgotten that I wasn't giving this as a serious solution. I was only asking for you to consider it. And there are still ways to predict a defect before the third trimester. Suppose the pregnant mother is shooting Heroin, binge drinking, Marijuana, and the list goes on. On top of that, there are many genetic factors that can be used to vaguely predict any genetic disorders. Moving on...

"and even a mercy kill is wrong because you never know if there will be a cure discovered for the disease over the course of the childs life."

There are many instances where you can assume there will not be a cure within the child's life. Cockayne Syndrome has no cure at all, and there is little hope it will be invented within 15-20 years, which would be the child's lifespan. The same goes for Ataxia, Sickle Cell Anemia, and so on. Wouldn't you rather put the child out of it's misery, instead of making it go through 10-20 years of pain and disability to wait for a cure that may never come?

This was a good debate, and I wish you luck in the voting round.
dxpilot

Con

"And do you have a plan for making that work? How would the fetus have a say in whether or not the mother gets an abortion?"

It wouldn't, it would be dead if the mother gets an abortion, but it would have a say if it hadn't been aborted. One day that fetus would've grown up and he might've been someone who ended world hunger, but he got killed and died. You never know if the child is going to end up being someone important to the economy.

"According to an online medical journal, a predicted 4 out of 100000 abortions are done during the third trimester of pregnancy."

This is only counting for the 3rd trimester, not the 2nd trimester or the end of the 1st trimester. The growing child will feel pain in almost all of the trimesters except the first 11 weeks.

"It depends on the mindset of the mother. If she believes that she wants to do everything she can to get the memory out of her head, she would not likely feel guilty. If it is an accidental pregnancy, by a boyfriend or husband, than guilt would be more of a factor."
Well according to an online medical journal (http://www.afterabortion.org......) over an eight-year period study, women who aborted had a 154% higher risk of death from suicide, and 82% higher risk of death from accidents, and a 44% higher risk of death from natural causes. That increase of 154% shows that almost all women who undergo abortion commit suicide.

"As for his statement on a diseased child, there really isn't a way to see that the child has a disease until the end of the 2nd trimester, in which the child is almost fully developed, it just has to grow more."

This is true, although you seem to have forgotten that I wasn't giving this as a serious solution. I was only asking for you to consider it. And there are still ways to predict a defect before the third trimester. Suppose the pregnant mother is shooting Heroin, binge drinking, Marijuana, and the list goes on. On top of that, there are many genetic factors that can be used to vaguely predict any genetic disorders. Moving on...

"There are many instances where you can assume there will not be a cure within the child's life. Cockayne Syndrome has no cure at all, and there is little hope it will be invented within 15-20 years, which would be the child's lifespan. The same goes for Ataxia, Sickle Cell Anemia, and so on. Wouldn't you rather put the child out of it's misery, instead of making it go through 10-20 years of pain and disability to wait for a cure that may never come?"

That is true that there will probably not be any type of cure found for diseases such as cockayne syndrome, but they can still be treated. People who were treated for cockayne syndrome did hold a normal life, even though they die young. But the people who are lucky and live past 18 do hold jobs and have a normal life with families. And even if the person has the child, just because 1 or more of the parents has that disease doesn't mean the child will have it to. There is just a 14% chance of him getting it, as is for all the other living people in the world. And diseases such as sickle cell can also be treated very easily ( for instance, in sickle cell all you have to do is get a shot every 7-10 days to increase the number of sickle you make).
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by The_brick 9 years ago
The_brick
say that it should be legal because people are going to do it anyway - is it not worth saving many more lives (the lives of the mothers) than letting them die getting back-alley abortions?

What do you people think? Remember, this isn't about whether abortion is right or wrong (there are more than enough of those already) - this is about whether it should be legal or not.

6 reasons to vote NEG

Government gets to control a woman's body.

By making abortion illegal, you're introducing a slippery slope that gives government control over a woman's body. You're taking away a personal freedom. Who knows what other controls the government may legislate in the future. Will it have the power to force sterilization? Will it have the power to make motherhood mandatory? Will it next take away the right to use other birth control methods such as The Pill?

"Back alley" abortions would increase if it were made illegal, leading to increased risk of young women dying or becoming sterile.

Regardless of what laws are in place, there will always be young women out there who want to have an abortion. They may not want to face the wrath of their parents, the embarrassment at school, or the lifetime responsibility of motherhood. If we criminalize abortion, many woman will simply look for other ways to get rid of the child. They could starve themselves or seek unlicensed "back alley" abortions. So instead of getting an abortion in a controlled environment where there is one last chance for counseling on options, women may subject themselves to a potentially dangerous situation. These type of methods often lead to sterility or other harm, even death.

It's arguably better for society to have babies aborted than have them be brought up poor and neglected, where not only will the child suffer but society when that child develops a higher attraction to crime, welfare, etc.

This is probably a controversial point but it has to be said. Without legalized abortion, a lot mor
Posted by shwayze 9 years ago
shwayze
partial-birth abortion is the most inhumane act on the planet. how can this possibly not be banned? It is the most evil method I have ever heard. Thank you liberals for introducing partial-birth abortion.
Posted by candice 9 years ago
candice
I think that, the fetus will appreciate being alive. Abortion is wrong.
Posted by believer_720 9 years ago
believer_720
This isn't necessarily a rebuttal, but the fetus does not, or will ever get a say. Period. End of story. Either the child would have been aborted, or the child had been born, meaning it's too late for it to decide whether or not they are aborted.
9 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Vote Placed by DrAlexander 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by candice 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by believer_720 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Pride_of_Scotland 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by dxpilot 9 years ago
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