The Instigator
diarrhea_of_a_wimpy_kid
Con (against)
Winning
12 Points
The Contender
3168175
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

This Square is Yellow

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
diarrhea_of_a_wimpy_kid
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/2/2016 Category: Arts
Updated: 12 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 679 times Debate No: 87504
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (2)

 

diarrhea_of_a_wimpy_kid

Con

My position is that this square below is not yellow. Pro will accept and argue that the square is indeed yellow.



To make it clear for my opponent, this image was taken from Wikipedia:
https://commons.wikimedia.org...

This is not a semantic argument where I will argue that the square is some hue in the yellow family like "canary", "dandelion","lemon", or "dehydration urine".

3 rounds, 4,000 characters (because I have no desire to engage in a metaphysical debate about the existence of light, reality, or religion). No need for polite acceptance and waiting to round 2. You may jump right in, if you wish. Rebut what you want, when you want. I'm flexible.
3168175

Pro

I am a little terrified of this debate, but I feel like I have nothing to lose. YOLO.

PLAIN SIGHT
The square provided is clearly visible as a shade of yellow, as long as you are not color blind. When compared to the color wheel and the worldwide list of colors, it can clearly be found in the section marked as "yellow"

The yellow shown is that yellow because the wave length of the light is just right for this shade.

I feel like this is an interesting start, may the games begin.
Debate Round No. 1
diarrhea_of_a_wimpy_kid

Con

About me

My hobby is 3-d digital art, renderings, and I've dabbled in animation. You know, Pixar-y stuff. I have to work with virtual material images, bump maps, displacement maps, specularity maps, ambient occlusion, HDRI environments, virtual lighting, render engines, compositing effects, and post-processing in software like Photoshop and GIMP.

Those are fancy words that describe an illusion. Fakery. Trickeration. I need to fool you, the viewer. I need you to believe and object has depth, mass, velocity, physics. I need you to think you're looking at a photograph or at least you're willing to suspend disbelief. I need you to believe in the world I've created. Basically, I'm lying to you.

The Medium

A medium refers to the material used to create a work of art. A painter can use yellow paint on a canvas. A Mark Rothko painting titled "Yellow and Blue" sold for $46.5 million. [1] If I were to argue that his painting was not yellow, I'd be wrong.

You are staring at my medium. My doorway to you is a flat rectangle. That flat rectangle is a very simple plane of tiny bits that respond to electrical impulses. These impulses move far too quickly for the human eye to see. The impulses flicker across that plane usually between 60-240 times per second.

This medium is very restrictive, yet computing power and illusion help make it incredibly powerful. It's all based on a simple premise: the pixel.

The Pixel

A pixel, when displayed by a monitor, is a set of three little elements that respond to electrical impulses. One transmits red light. One transmits green light. One transmits blue light. Commonly referrred to as RGB. [2]


[3]

I don't care if you're using a phone, tablet, monitor, or flat-screen to read this. It is physically impossible for any of the red, green, and blue pixels to transmit yellow light. [4]

The Image

The image displayed on your screen contains an array of data. Yes, we all know that computer data is ones and zeros. Let's move beyond that a little. Image files contain a two-dimensional array of three data numbers. Each data number represents the intensity of that electrical impulse on a red, green, or blue pixel. The range of that intensity is based on binary numbers (1s and 0s) with 2^8, or 256, levels of intensity.

"Yellow"

A pure "yellow" image is constructed by illuminating red, green, and blue elements of a pixel. In this case, the red and green elements are glowing with full intensity. The blue elements have the day off.

You are looking at a red-green square in the first argument. Your monitor prevents anything else.

Pro offers that observation is sufficient evidence. I counter that illusion occurs here to simulate the effect of other media.

Pro offers that the frequency/wavelength produced is in the yellow spectrum. I counter that red and green frequencies are produced and no frequency/wavelength is emitted in the yellow range of the spectrum.

[1] http://news.bitofnews.com...
[2] http://whatis.techtarget.com...
[3] https://upload.wikimedia.org...
[4] https://en.wikipedia.org...
3168175

Pro

I knew you had something up your sleeve when you posted such a decieving argument, but I still have some fighting spirit so here we go.

I was searching for any evidence to use against you, and I stumbled across a very interesting bit of information.

https://www.google.com...
^I do not know how to add images to ddo, so please direct your attention to the first IMAGE^

You can clearly see, as you said, that the yellow is created through the illumination of red and green. However the human mind can only see the yellow, as if mixing the colors on an artists plate. So I agree it is fair to say that it is made of red and green, but when your mind makes an assumption, it is true to oneself. If you believe your mind then the answer is simple: yellow. If you believe in digging into the facts until you reach the smallest scale, then it is not yellow.

With that being said, when the light directly goes to our eyes with all of these tiny little red and green waves, they are so jam packed that they can be seen in the same area, creating a wonderful yellow. Therefore a yellow is what is truly recieved by our eyes.

"The sun's light contains all the colors of the rainbow (red orange yellow green blue indigo) but the color that is reflected most to your eye is the green. The part of an atom or molecule that "reflects" the light is the electrons on the outside of the atom" Green is mostly made from blue and YELLOW, the screeen and the atoms inside of the device were created from atoms and therefore contain Yellow. In this way I am arguing that the square is in fact yellow, and not just green and red.
Debate Round No. 2
diarrhea_of_a_wimpy_kid

Con

I appreciate the fighting spirit for you have put your finger directly on the crux of the debate. That will be up to the voters. When the picture is examined at an elemental level, we both agree it is red and green.

You said:

  • “You can clearly see, as you said, that the yellow is created through the illumination of red and green.“
  • I agree it is fair to say that it is made of red and green”
  • “the light directly goes to our eyes with all of these tiny little red and green waves”

That is what I’m asserting. I could claim victory from concession at this point, but you have another argument and that would be a risk. I’ll acknowledge the agreement in principle.

This debate was designed to identify a delta between reality and perception that is the most fundamental concept in digital art. The artist creates illusion and the mind believes. However, like a stage magician, the illusion still is only manipulated perception, not reality.


Let me provide an analogy. Remember those paper Red-Blue 3-D glasses? Imagine I folded those glasses in half, right along the bridge of the nose so the translucent panels overlapped. Then I placed a light on the opposite side of those.

  • Now, I ask you question, “What color is the plastic?”
  • You may say, “The plastic is purple.”
  • I say, “That is incorrect! The plastic is not purple.”
  • You may say, “Purple is what is truly received by my eyes. If I believe my mind, the plastic must be purple.”

At this point, I unfold the glasses and show you the plastic is both red and blue. Neither piece of plastic is purple. Our mind is easily fooled. It is limited. Our eyes make assumptions and interpretations to function in reality. They are quite remarkable yet not entirely precise.


Above you argued, “Yellow is what is truly received by our eyes”

For the sake of objectivity, this is actually a true statement. I’ll acknowledge my agreement in principle. The problem with that assertion is that is not my debate premise.

I did not posit: “This square appears yellow” Or “This square looks yellow” or “The light rays blended to form yellow”. No, the object on the screen IS red and green. At the smallest scale, there are only two frequencies emitted. It only appears yellow because our eyes are imperfect.


You bring up an artist’s palette. It’s not a bad example, but it’s flawed.

First, they behave fundamentally different. When using light, red and green make yellow. When using pigment, red and green make a muddy brown. When using light, all colors make white. When using pigment, all colors make an ugly gray.

Pigments blend at a molecular level, meaning that the light is absorbed (and reflected) at a far finer resolution than a pixel. It may be a fascinating discussion to argue that reflected pigment colors represent some blend of individual molecules and not the aggregate average, that’s outside the scope of the debate.

Second, light emits energy. Pigments absorb energy. That goes a long way to explaining the first difference above. While light is defined by the emission, a pigment only takes on a color if an external light source is present (as anyone who has ever stepped on a Lego brick in the middle of the night can attest).

Third, light rays combine frequencies. Multiple light sources blend like a stage production at a rock concert. The high-intensity lamps fly around the stage in choreography with the music. The light colors exist only in their fundamental RGB states. The reflection upon the stage flutters in a psychedelic mix of hues. It does not change the color of the original source light.


The image above is millions of tiny stage lights, none of which are yellow, shining directly at you. Congrats, you’re a rock star.

Thank you for the debate.

3168175

Pro

You have chosen to take my words and use them. What you did not do is write the full statements. You tried to make me appear to agree with everything you said. HERE is the reality that I wrote out:

"You can clearly see, as you said, that the yellow is created through the illumination of red and green. However the human mind can only see the yellow"
"So I agree it is fair to say that it is made of red and green, but when your mind makes an assumption, it is true to oneself. If you believe your mind then the answer is simple: yellow. If you believe in digging into the facts until you reach the smallest scale, then it is not yellow."
"With that being said, when the light directly goes to our eyes with all of these tiny little red and green waves, they are so jam packed that they can be seen in the same area, creating a wonderful yellow. Therefore a yellow is what is truly recieved by our eyes."

This is what I could quote you on for all the rounds, if I wanted to act like you:

"the square is indeed yellow"
"I'm lying to you."
"A pure "yellow" image is constructed"
"this is actually a true statement"

Therfore you have admitted that the sqaure is yellow and I could "claim victory"

This was a debate unlike any other I've seen. I have had to argue against many true facts, and try to find chinks in the armor of my opponent. I have spoken of perception, and ones belief in themselves. I feel like I have done everything I could and would like to personally thank you for this debate.
Good luck, and live long and prosper.*shows spock sign*
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by breakingamber 10 months ago
breakingamber
dafuq.

This was a very interesting debate.
I would have given the match to Con, but s/g and conduct to Pro.

Con cited better sources.
Posted by SactownBoom 11 months ago
SactownBoom
Well that was fun.
Posted by U.n 12 months ago
U.n
Oh snap.
Posted by diarrhea_of_a_wimpy_kid 12 months ago
diarrhea_of_a_wimpy_kid
I was looking for something on the "light" debate and some guy had a video "This is not yellow." I do digital artwork and found it interesting. Honestly, I didn't go back to look if it was Vsauce or not but I figured my opponent could easily try and counter me with research. I took the idea, but developed my argument in a vacuum so plagiarism isn't asserted.
Posted by Rami 12 months ago
Rami
Did you get this from VSauce?
Posted by Rami 12 months ago
Rami
Yep, it's really a combination of red, blue, and green.
Posted by diarrhea_of_a_wimpy_kid 12 months ago
diarrhea_of_a_wimpy_kid
It has applications in digital art.
Posted by Briannj17 12 months ago
Briannj17
I would accept but I'm on edge about your response.
Posted by Briannj17 12 months ago
Briannj17
What in blue blazes your arguing against a truism. Why?
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Stonehe4rt 11 months ago
Stonehe4rt
diarrhea_of_a_wimpy_kid3168175Tied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
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Total points awarded:50 
Reasons for voting decision: I have to say, that was very badass of Con. Both sides provided Sources however Con's sources were much better utilized and more factual. Con also showed as a basic fact about the colors in the computer screen, what I want to know is, "Is anything truly yellow?" Lol GJ Con.
Vote Placed by jo021698j 12 months ago
jo021698j
diarrhea_of_a_wimpy_kid3168175Tied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: I am a man of technicality, and Con was slammin in this debate. Technically, he is correct and he brought up amazing points. Frankly, I am shocked because of this debate. I originally thought that this debate was a hoax, but in reality, a screen only emits certain colors and con pointed that out. It is truly amazing how I was convinced to one side so quickly.