The Instigator
Pro (for)
3 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
10 Points

This country was formed on a lie

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/7/2014 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 459 times Debate No: 66549
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (2)




This county was formed on the declaration of independence with basically said Britain we are done with you however, one of the main arguments was that all men were created equal and had a god given right to govern themselves, however that left out all the women and negroes in the country. Negroes are men too right. This mistake was almost settled when in the relatively new continental congress thought of abolishing slavery then and there however the southern states in particular disagreed. if they hadn't disagreed there would have been no civil war however no Abe Lincoln but back to the point my "four score and seven years ago my forefathers founded this country on hypocrisy so what do you think.


Thank you for starting this debate. I hope that it can be a civil and productive exchange.

First of all, the Declaration was written by Thomas Jefferson. Read the following except from the article "Thomas Jefferson and Slavery" [1]
" Thomas Jefferson was a consistent opponent of slavery his whole life. Calling it a “moral depravity” and a “hideous blot,” he believed that slavery presented the greatest threat to the survival of the new American nation. Jefferson also thought that slavery was contrary to the laws of nature, which decreed that everyone had a right to personal liberty. These views were radical in a world where unfree labor was the norm.At the time of the American Revolution, Jefferson was actively involved in legislation that he hoped would result in slavery’s abolition. In 1778, he drafted a Virginia law that prohibited the importation of enslaved Africans. In 1784, he proposed an ordinance that would ban slavery in the Northwest territories. But Jefferson always maintained that the decision to emancipate slaves would have to be part of a democratic process; abolition would be stymied until slaveowners consented to free their human property together in a large-scale act of emancipation. To Jefferson, it was anti-democratic and contrary to the principles of the American Revolution for the federal government to enact abolition or for only a few planters to free their slaves."

Therefore, Jefferson was not "lieing" when he wrote those famous words. This was infact his hope for the future of the country. Sadly, Jefferson did not live to see the abolition of slavery, but he certainly attempted to bring it about.

The following is from the "I have a Dream" Speech by Martin Luther King [2]
"In a sense we've come to our nation's capital to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent words of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, they were signing a promissory note to which every American was to fall heir. This note was a promise that all men, yes, black men as well as white men, would be guaranteed the 'unalienable Rights' of 'Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.' "
This shows that when Jefferson wrote those words, he was in fact writing his hopes for the future, hopes that would eventually be fulfilled. The words of our founders were not lies, but hopes.
You also misquote the Gettysburg Address. This is what you said-
"four score and seven years ago my forefathers founded this country on hypocrisy"
Which is at odds with the actual speech, which says- [3]
"Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal."
This further enforces my point. The author of the Declaration was anti-slavery, however, he was not able to push his agenda because the Union could not stay in tact without compromise.

Back to you Pro.

Debate Round No. 1


Thank you for that enlightening speech for all you said was true and your sources are very credible but it does not change the fact that even though Jefferson was anti slavery it still happened and he could not change the southern colonies/states representatives point of view that slavery is natural and a good way to bring in money. Though the deceleration was not fully hypocritical in American men's endeavor to gain the rights to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" they (particularly the representatives from the south) were either to blind, ignorant, or just to lazy to abolish slavery then and there even though that was the opposite of Jeffersons intentions.
And ps. That age is wrong I'm thirteen and yes I too hope this is an enjoyable debate


Even with your responses, my points still stand. The words written in the Declaration were promises for the future, promises that have now been fulfilled.
"either to blind, ignorant, or just to lazy to abolish slavery then and there"
This is offensive to our founding fathers. The reason that slavery was not abolished at the start was that America needed to be united in order to beat the British, as well as getting through are turbulant time as a young nation. The Civil War, while being an awful war, stregnthened us in the long term, and fulfilled the promises made in the Declaration.
I am not positive about this, but do you now agree with me that the Declaration of Independance was not in fact a lie?
Debate Round No. 2


You have valiantly opposed me with your well researched points and you have swayed my mind minutely but my mind is a stubborn thing and what kind of opponent would I be if I just agreed with you but I do agree that this war made us stronger however this was a little off topic and I still believe the fact that the document that basically formed our country was contraversial. The document served it's purpose but as a young negroe I believe my race was cheated and treated like animals more than men but the document clearly said in the third and fourth line it is men's unailiable rights are life, liberty and the pursuit of happyness. Only one of these rights were granted to negroes, women and Native Americans. Although I am a happy American citizen I dispize the fact that our country was about to grant all the people in America freedom but they changed their mind to make the vote unanimous. I mean we all vote for our presidents correct, and just because some people voted for the losing one and the vote wasn't unanimous that doesn't change the fact that we are united as one in the states. People migh be a little angry but our country doesn't break into chaos because the vote wasn't unanimous.

I have enjoyed this debate, it tought me many things and you have been a challenging adversary I hope to do this again.


First I would like to thank you for your polite and civil behavior during the debate.

Your example of comparing a presidential election to the abolition of slavery is not correct for modern day, but it is correct historically.
"I mean we all vote for our presidents correct, and just because some people voted for the losing one and the vote wasn't unanimous that doesn't change the fact that we are united as one in the states. People might be a little angry but our country doesn't break into chaos because the vote wasn't unanimous."
Being that you are debating a historical topic, I assume you have some historical knowledge, and so you know, that is essentially what happened (With many other factors at play as well of course)
Read the following except-
"With the election in 1860 of Abraham Lincoln, who ran on a message of containing slavery to where it currently existed, and the success of the Republican Party to which he belonged – the first entirely regional party in US history – in that election, South Carolina seceded on December 20, 1860, the first state to ever officially secede from the United States. Four months later, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Texas and Louisiana seceded as well. Later Virginia (except for its northwestern counties, which broke away and formed the Union-loyal state of West Virginia), Arkansas, North Carolina, and Tennessee joined them. The people of the seceded states elected Jefferson Davis as president of the newly formed Southern Confederacy." [1]

I have already proved that the Declaration of Independence is not a lie. I will not deny the injustices committed against minorities in this country, but I will say that the Declaration was always sending us towards a goal of equality, a goal, which with the help of the American people and some leaders (Some of whom I quoted in my round one argument), I can say that we have accomplished, and therefore, fulfilled the promises of our founding fathers.
Please, vote Con.

Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by WillRiley 1 year ago
FaustianJustice, had my opponent brought up the points you mentioned with your vote it might have been a different story, but my points were not adequately refuted.
Posted by WillRiley 1 year ago
No need to harass my opponent in the comments. I believe I can handle it.
Posted by bubbles_will_pop 1 year ago
Let's not resort to name calling now buddy, and my argument isn't that all men are created equal is the quote negroes rebelled with to eventually gain freedom and rights. I'm saying at the time when the continental congress wrote their argument to be free from Britain it was controversial even though that may have changed I believe that our arguments towards Britain were effective but as I have been saying very controversial and hypocritical.
Posted by cheyennebodie 1 year ago
All men are created equal refers to mankind. It was that statement that got rid of slavery, you dope.That was not a lie. It opened the door for getting rid of slavery. That was the thing Rosa Parks stood on when she refused to give up her seat.And we found out it had teeth.King never fought for civil rights, but constitutional rights. The right for all men and women too be free to succeed or fail on their own merit. Of course the democrats offered a third option. If your lifestyle causes failure, just become a freeloader and force others to pay for your mistakes.And too many minorities took them up on that.

All peoples have been abused in the past one time or another.
Posted by bubbles_will_pop 1 year ago
no I'm saying the government at the time was being very hypocritical saying that in the document that formed our country even though our country kept african slaves
Posted by 1Credo 1 year ago
So you're taking the Pro position for the statement that "All men are created equal" is a lie?
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by matspub 1 year ago
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: wow
Vote Placed by FaustianJustice 1 year ago
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Total points awarded:33 
Reasons for voting decision: Taken as a whole, then compared to the Constitution, the DoI gave the impression of a frame work in which slavery was simply not possible, and that suffrage was universal. Sentiments changed. If the goal was equality before the law, the inequalities should have been specifically addressed, and solutions for their corrections made.