The Instigator
jonnyboy27
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Stephen_Hawkins
Pro (for)
Winning
7 Points

This house believe that Scotland ought to be dependant

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Stephen_Hawkins
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/1/2012 Category: Politics
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,273 times Debate No: 20812
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (1)

 

jonnyboy27

Con

I'd like my opponent to put his argument forward first.
Stephen_Hawkins

Pro

I accept the resolution that Scotland ought to remain dependent, or that they should not become an independent country.
I shall argue that not just that Scotland is better off staying in Great Britain, but, more importantly, the people do not want to leave the Union. Scotland wants to stay.

What do the people want?

What do the people want? One would expect that by simply looking at the recent studies (Jan 2012), we can see the following:

DailyMail report on the Scotland devolution question.
Less than 1 in 4 of the population of Scotland actually want to leave the union (of Salmond's option). In fact, more British people want the Scottish to leave than the Scots themselves! In scotland, the majority of the population want to leave the union. It's ludicrous to force a country to leave a union when neither side wants it to - Cameron has constantly wanted to keep the union together (as per the conservative way), and Salmond is not going to get away with giving the middle finger to most of his electees. If the scottish people do not want to leave, and the british do not want them to leave, then the Scottish should not leave. Neither the British nor the Scottish want Scotland to be indepedent. Therefore, clearly, Scotland should stay part of the UK. Even Salmond understands that the majority of scots do not want to leave. That's why he started to float the DevoMax idea. But that is not what we're here to debate on. Scotland wants to stay.

Political Apathy

Now, the other thing that stands out is the 30% of people who don't give a damn. The thing is, whenever we have a referendum in the UK, american readers, we seem to have a lot less people turning out to vote than in the polls- similar to almost every other country in the world - and this leads us to have a few problems. How much of the 72% that voted actually care enough at all? I wonder if more people will vote if it becomes a referendum. So the easiest way to tell what the expected turnout is would be simple: see what happened last time! ...OK, 1997 election...oh? It seems that only 60% of the population voted![1] And when we look at the previous referendum[2], only 33% - that's barely a million people - voted yes in Scotland. Barely anyone wanted it, loads of people didn't even care enough to turn up! The Scottish don't care either, there is no reason to force independence upon the Scots.

Why it is not needed

Now this part is simply why the Scots do not need to have independence, or, simply, an explanation of why the Scots don't want to become an independent nation.

The Current Powers

"What powers to the Scottish currently have under devolution?" I asked my local MP. He told me "Oh, barely any! It can only choose its own electoral system, pass bills, vote in Westminster, ability to set laws on Agriculture, Forestry, Food, fisheries, Culture, media, sport, tax variance - albeit slight, Economic development, student fees, student education, teacher training, pollution control, sewage control, legislative power over the Scottish NHS, home affairs, judiciary, laws, government finance, designation of enterprise zones, social services, Vocational Qualification standards, control of the SQA...where was I again?[3]"

Okay, I admit, I made up that conversation slightly. Well, entirely. But the point is still very simple: the Scots have so much power of its own system, it's its own country in all but name (and currency, which are actually not going to be changed if Scotland becomes independent).

Subsidies to Scotland

We already donate a lot of money to Scotland anyway, simply to keep it becoming profitable. 4.5bn pounds a year is given to help out the country, and the money is going back to us due to the investment and profitability. Now, this firstly helps us Englishmen as, of course, we get more money, and who doesn't want that (other than a select few terrorist groups)? And the Scots benefit because the access to this much money to improve Scotland has led to many, many country improvements. The symbiotic relationship between our two nations has brought prosperity for all. This is another reason why Scotland does not want to leave the union and become indepdent.


In conclusion, there is many reasons why the Scottish want to stay in the Union, and not become indepedent and lose its access to our beneficial, decentralised relationship, but the people themselves do not want to leave anyway! I hold that the motion has been affirmed: The Scottish wish to remain in the Union, and do not want independence. Thank you.

1 - McNaughton, N. UK Government and Politics AS Third Edition , p35
2 - Ibid, p34
3 - http://www.article12.org...

Debate Round No. 1
jonnyboy27

Con

jonnyboy27 forfeited this round.
Stephen_Hawkins

Pro

My opponent has not posted an argument, nor sent me a reason why he couldn't. I shall wait for him to do so.
Debate Round No. 2
jonnyboy27

Con

jonnyboy27 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
jonnyboy27

Con

jonnyboy27 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
jonnyboy27

Con

jonnyboy27 forfeited this round.
Stephen_Hawkins

Pro

Vote Pr Con!
Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by unitedandy 5 years ago
unitedandy
Although being a Scot, I'm pretty undecided on independence, I'm pretty sure it will be a lot closer than Pro indicates, as recent polls suggest. Also, the management of education and healthcare by the Scottish government as compared with westminster would be a pretty strong reason to expect independence to facilitate increased prosperity. Lastly, the political differences between England and the rest of the UK (particularly Scotland) means that we get lumped with a tory government ruling the purse strings up here, while the country is notoriously labour/anti tory.
Posted by THEBOMB 5 years ago
THEBOMB
oh so basically your pro independence while your opponent is con independence
Posted by jonnyboy27 5 years ago
jonnyboy27
This house believes that scotland ought to be dependent. In other words, should not be independent. I wish to vote against this and explain why they SHOULD be independent.
Posted by THEBOMB 5 years ago
THEBOMB
Dependent or independent?
Posted by jonnyboy27 5 years ago
jonnyboy27
Dependent on England.
Posted by wjmelements 5 years ago
wjmelements
Dependent on what or whom?
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by johnnyboy54 5 years ago
johnnyboy54
jonnyboy27Stephen_HawkinsTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: ff