The Instigator
sarmad5
Pro (for)
The Contender
asox44
Con (against)

This house believes "Video Games Be Considered a Sport"

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Debate Round Forfeited
sarmad5 has forfeited round #4.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/8/2017 Category: Games
Updated: 9 months ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 375 times Debate No: 101800
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (0)

 

sarmad5

Pro

Hi guys! Today we will be debating the topic, should games be considered sports? I am taking the PRO stance in this debate whereas whoever else accepts it takes the CON stance for this.

Here is the breakup of how the rounds will work:
ROUND ONE : Is simply acceptance, no arguments to be posted
ROUND TWO-FOUR : Is arguments/counter arguments
ROUND FIVE : Is arguments/counter arguments as well as why you took up this stance in the first place.

RULES:-
- There will be no swearing
- Please answer in all rounds
- Cite your sources either gradually or all at the end.
- Please use fact rather than opinion in your debate as this a fact based debate.

REMINDER:
Don't forget to use the six hats!
asox44

Con

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
sarmad5

Pro

------------------------------------------------------------------------------Round Two-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are some reasons why Video games should be a sport:

It actually does require physical skill because you need fast reaction times, muscle memory, and excessive movement. With these factors, it is very competitive. There is a difference between casual, fun games and competitive hard games. It has a major league, that broadcasts live streams of competitions and such, just like any conventional sport. Some may argue that whether something is a sport or not is dictated by whether it induces physical activity. Well, it turns out that more and more virtual reality games are coming out online and in stores, and are requiring gamers to move to control game characters (Such as ingress or Xbox Kinect or the Nintendo Switch). With a new digitized age starting, many conventional sports may be virtualized and turned into games. It is as sport of the mind, similar to chess which many people consider a sport. It is more physically demanding then you would think. You must be able process that situation and react in a limited time. It can challenge your mind and that now in 2016 HTC VR (virtual reality set with hand movement) is out you have to use you body to play a video game. It can also be great exercise too, that means that you will have to practice so you understand how it works. Those who would love to play sports but can"t due to physical conditions (for example, someone in a wheelchair) would be able to partake in a sporting event by playing video games. Right now people watch other people play sports on TV (baseball, football, etc.), so why would watching someone play in a video games tournament be any different? Besides that point, there are already tournaments for big money values and contracts being signed for video game teams now, all that is needed is the government say so that it is officially a sport. Just like any other athletic endeavor, it requires tremendous skill and strategy. It can be played individually or on a team. And serious eSports athletes train for months on end, displaying strong mental focus, quick reaction time, and extreme dedication as they compete.

Let's see how big Video games (or E-sports) really are:

"In 10 years' time, it will be as big as NHL," leading gamer Olof Kajbjer tells CNN. This was a statement made at Early 2016, and now in early 2017, it has been proved to be FALSE. Can you guess why? It is because of the fact that NHL averages 378 thousand viewers as of 2016 and an average attendance of 18,000 and, though the current number of fans is unknown, as of 2008, NHL claims to have 50 million fans. However, in a survey in 2014, hockey (NHL) and basketball (NBA) were a close 6th and 5th respectively, and the 2016 statistics of Basketball (NBA) was 400 Million fans, so we'll take that as a reference point. In 2016, E-sports had a following of 292 million, and it had actually gone from 204 million to 292 million between 2014 and 2016 -- a 43% increase in just two years and it's projected to exceed 427 million around the world by 2019! That means that in just 2 years it will exceed NBA which exceeds NHL! Furthermore, the E-sport Revenue is expected to smash $1 billion by 2019. It's also worth noting eSports participants now qualify for a US p-1 Visa, henceforth reserved for professional athletes -- "a watershed moment," according to Dustin Beck, vice-president of eSports at Riot Games. This means that professional gamers have already been started to be recognized as professional athletes in the US, and therefore means that authorities around US have started to consider granting Video games the status of "Sports" and not just "E-sports".

Now, Con will probably counter me by saying that you need to physically strain yourself or at least move around for something to qualify as a sport, but then what about chess? Con will probably say that for chess you need to think strategically, but you have to think strategically in video games as well! Furthermore, many Video games such as one on the Nintendo Switch require you to be alert a active!

And at that point I rest my case
asox44

Con

I am not going to argue that physical activity solely defines a sport, but I will argue that it is an important part. Also, I will agree with you that chess is a sport, since the International Olympic Committee (IOC) considers it one. [1] This does not mean I will agree with whatever the IOC says, just that I respect their opinion on sports since they manage one of the largest sporting events in the world.

First, video games do require "fast reaction times, muscle memory, and excessive movement." However, I think the excessive movement only applies to augmented or virtual reality. There is not much excessive movement in clicking a mouse or pushing buttons while one is sitting down. However, video games and virtual reality are just that, virtual. No matter what you say there is a code or pattern that determines everything, and that code can be figured out and manipulated. In sport played in reality, there is an element of unpredictability. You may have some idea of what could happen next, but it is almost impossible to predict exactly. If conventional sports were turned into games then they would lose that aspect of them.

Although some gamers may enjoy working out or being in decent physical shape, they do not get 'Sustained physical exercise, whether it be running or swimming or cycling or other aerobic activity, has well-known health benefits, including improvements in the function of the cardiovascular, pulmonary, and endocrine systems"[2] directly from their involvement in video games. Even if they do, for example if someone is walking around every day playing Pokemon Go, they are still involved in a virtual world that can be controlled and manipulated.

Also, "Video games are short-circuiting our reward system that we rely on for feedback on what we are doing," said Elan Barenholtz, professor of psychology at FAU. "Video games, I believe, make a much more consistent reinforcement that is kind of unnatural, and in a sense addictive. [They have] incremental accomplishments, rewards. All things we love."[3] If video games could this easily become an addiction, then their the negative health side effects would outweigh the positive ones.

Popularity should not be a determinate whether something should be considered a sport or not. There are many popular things that have little or no talent. For example, Kim Kardashian and Danielle Bregoli, the "cash me outside" girl.

[1] http://londonchessconference.com...
[2] https://www.psychologytoday.com...
[3] http://www.upressonline.com...
Debate Round No. 2
sarmad5

Pro

Ok, first let me clarify one point, If video games are made a sport, then they will be given further protection against being manipulated and furthermore, your average sports can also be manipulated if you, for example, bribe the referee. Infact if you want to talk about manipulated, then you can practically manipulate any sport, but why don't they? It is because of the fact that sports are carefully monitored and if Video games are given the status of sport then they to will be monitored. moving on to the statement ("Popularity should not be a determinate whether something should be considered a sport or not. There are many popular things that have little or no talent. For example, Kim Kardashian and Danielle Bregoli, the "cash me outside" girl.") If you are stating this, then you are implying that Video games require no skill, which is an absolutely INCORRECT statement simply because of the fact that different types of games require different types of skills, for eg. You need to have quick reflexes while playing fifa, You need to know basic sciences for many games, you need speed for table tennis on the wii, etc. Furthermore, most games are quite unpredictable as the lines of codes in them often exceed 1,000,000,000 and that means that a single shot in fifa 17 can have 5 different outcomes! Finally, I would like to talk about the statement that " 'Video games are short-circuiting our reward system that we rely on for feedback on what we are doing,' said Elan Barenholtz, professor of psychology at FAU. 'Video games, I believe, make a much more consistent reinforcement that is kind of unnatural, and in a sense addictive. [They have] incremental accomplishments, rewards. All things we love.' " This means that video games what? Cause us to expect better rewards for small things? where is the Evidence? Where are the statistics? Where are the numbers?
asox44

Con

Here are some examples for what I meant when I said manipulate, and then I will explain how manipulation of video games is more impactful than the manipulation of sports, such as you said " bribe the referee". I play Destiny, and when you get to a boss, there is a number of different attacks, lets say about six or seven, that he/she can cycle through. Once one has figured out how to beat these attacks, you can just do the same thing over in over again, and the boss' strategy will not change, even if they are about to lose. In a sport when the team you are facing realizes something is not working, they will change their strategy to try and win. If your opponent is doing the same thing over and over again even though they will not succeed, then they are easier to beat than an opponent who does change a broken strategy. Another example is when my friend played Pokemon Go, he had a cheat that allowed him to teleport anywhere in the world and find the best Pokemon by putting coordinates into the website. [1] You cannot go wherever you want on a field or chessboard, there are rules and people that will get in your way. Your response to this could be, "Video games are given the status of sport then they to will be monitored", but there has been no patch to fix the problem, even though it violates the whole point of the game, getting up and walking around. For your example of "brib[ing] the referee", I argue that it only changes one aspect of the game, strategy can still change, even if the rules are not being followed. Also, if it is so obvious that the referee is cheating, then he will suffer consequences, and so will the person that bribed him/her. To that you say "It is because of the fact that sports are carefully monitored and if Video games are given the status of sport then they to will be monitored", but why should video games be given status of sport if they have not proven themselves capable of regulation already. They don't deserve it if they have not even showed they can accomplish a crucial requirement.

To your second point "If you are stating this, then you are implying that Video games require no skill" I will show you that one of the first points I mentioned in round 2 is "First, video games do require 'fast reaction times, muscle memory, and excessive movement.' " All I stated is that popularity should not be a determinate because there are things that are popular for little or no reason and if you are trying to make video games a sport it should be a reason argument, not a popularity argument. As you said in round one "Please use fact rather than opinion in your debate as this a fact based debate." Popularity - the quality or state of being popular[2] Popular - of or relating to the general public [3]

For your final points, the quote means video games are "in a sense addictive" and that in a study by "Traditional Psychology" in 2011 showed "showed that the brains of 14-year-old video gamers looked similar to those of adult drug addicts" [4] To say that they provide any good health benefits that outweigh the negative aspect of addiction would be very difficult then. The similarity in their brains is most likely because "in the scientific journal Nature in 1998, researchers found that playing video games can release levels of striatal dopamine (aka that feel-good chemical that triggers your reward system) similar to those found in drug users immediately following the injection of amphetamines." [4]

Finally, to say "where is the Evidence? Where are the statistics? Where are the numbers?" when I have provided sources for all my outside information is ridiculous. You have made various claims such as "E-sports had a following of 292 million, and it had actually gone from 204 million to 292 million between 2014 and 2016 -- a 43% increase in just two years and it's projected to exceed 427 million around the world by 2019! That means that in just 2 years it will exceed NBA which exceeds NHL! Furthermore, the E-sport Revenue is expected to smash $1 billion by 2019", "serious eSports athletes train for months on end, displaying strong mental focus, quick reaction time, and extreme dedication as they compete", and "Furthermore, most games are quite unpredictable as the lines of codes in them often exceed 1,000,000,000 and that means that a single shot in fifa 17 can have 5 different outcomes" while at the same time you have not cited a single source. How am I supposed to accept this as common knowledge? I am not familiar with the growth and financial projections of eSports, I don't know how much work it takes to become an eSports competitor, and why should I know how intricate the code of Fifa '17 is and how it affects each shot you take? If you want to play that game, it goes both ways my friend.

[1] http://www.crossmap.com...
[2] https://www.merriam-webster.com...
[3] https://www.merriam-webster.com...
[4] http://www.lamag.com... (This is the article where I found the studies, and it provides links to the studies if you want to go look at them.)
Debate Round No. 3
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Debate Round No. 4
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Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by asox44 9 months ago
asox44
Oh I see you will post them at the end. I guess do it whenever you feel then. Disregard that last comment.
Posted by asox44 9 months ago
asox44
Could you post your sources so I can look at them? Thanks!
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