The Instigator
shakuntala
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Stephen_Hawkins
Con (against)
Winning
4 Points

This is a great feminist poem-it takes us to the heart of the feminist experience

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Stephen_Hawkins
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/30/2013 Category: Arts
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 707 times Debate No: 36139
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (0)
Votes (1)

 

shakuntala

Pro

Not for Duncan-if Duncan reads this then dont disparage me or the author

This is a great feminist poem it takes us to the heart of the feminist experience
it lays bear the feminists tragedy and what it may mean to be a feminist

http://www.scribd.com...
Stephen_Hawkins

Con

No, it doesn't represent feminism (especially second-wave and the socialist feminists). Moreover, it is universally hated, apart from the spammer/author who keeps advertising this poet.

http://au.answers.yahoo.com...

"I'm not too impressed"
"I want whoever wrote this sh!t guillotined."
"I, too, am ashamed to call myself Australian when I read that sort of garbage."
"
As a fellow Australian i want to burn the poet Alive for writing such crap and saying that they are Australian.
Source(s):
We need a cultral cleansing of the idiot types."

"I don't like the poem...it has no rhythm."

http://www.poemhunter.com...

"you say
snore,
bore,
please...no more.

you could not even understand the poem at all-the wit irony parody colloquialisms
you call it a 4 years rhyme
thing is your poem appreciation is at a very low grade level i think"

I'd say the list goes on, but this is the entirety of comments on this drivel. It takes us nowhere near the "heart of the feminist experience" - in fact, apart from the clichéd unironically used feminist phrases with no parodic intent, it does not refer to feminism at all. Terrible.

I feel I ought to apologise for all with the ability to read English who had to suffer through this poem. For those who have not yet: do not. This isn't a poem which is so bad that it's funny, but one that is so bad it just is a blot on your existence that you wish to erase.
Debate Round No. 1
shakuntala

Pro

con says
"No, it doesn't represent feminism (especially second-wave and the socialist feminists)"

I think this captures the lived experience of feminists today

APOTHEGM
Feminism you fool
Nothing but capitalisms tool
Get um out to work
Out of the home
Baby off the tit
Kids in a cr"che
We can"t have the economic system crash
Turn um into men power suits short hair
Offer them power money all men"s lair
Feed um up on feminism
Give um ideology you fool
Then the system will power capitalisms tool
Teach the girls early that men are bastards true
Teach the girls early that money power is their due
Turn them against men compete love their ruin true
They will have it true every thing the lot except a lovers woo
Give um ideology you fool
Then the system will power capitalisms tool
Stephen_Hawkins

Con

You can think that it captures feminism all you want, but it doesn't make it true, anymore than the madman's ravings justify the existence of bunnies on Jupiter. Socialist feminists argue that Capitalism is a creation of masculinity and the either essentialist male nature of competition or the cultural construct where being masculine and successful includes competition and therefore lends itself to competition.

It is universally hated as terrible poetry. As such, vote CON.
Debate Round No. 2
shakuntala

Pro

I have backed up my claim with an example

con says
"It is universally hated as terrible poetry"
but to tun that against himself

"You can think that it"IT IS UNIVERSALLY HATED AS TERRIBLE POETRY" all you want, but it doesn't make it true, anymore than the madman's ravings justify the existence of bunnies on Jupiter"

con says
"It is universally hated as terrible poetry"

con is talking off topic
the post it not about it being good or bad poetry
but
being a great poem that takes us to the heart of the feminist experience

and con sorta supports that when he says
con says
"Socialist feminists argue that Capitalism is a creation of masculinity and the either essentialist male nature of competition or the cultural construct where being masculine and successful includes competition and therefore lends itself to competition.

that just supports my quote

"Feminism you fool
Nothing but capitalisms tool
Get um out to work

We can"t have the economic system crash
Turn um into men power suits short hair
Offer them power money all men"s lair
Feed um up on feminism
Give um ideology you fool
Then the system will power capitalisms tool
Teach the girls early that men are bastards true
Teach the girls early that money power is their due
Turn them against men compete love their ruin true
They will have it true every thing the lot except a lovers woo
Give um ideology you fool
Then the system will power capitalisms tool"

so con has not adequately refuted my claims

so I win

he
Stephen_Hawkins

Con

Socialism: [crudely] the antonym of Capitalism.

Feminist socialism: Capitalism is rooted in masculinity and is wrong.

According to the poem, feminism is "Capitalism's tool." To say that this accurately portrays feminist socialism is akin to saying Marx was very good in his defence of the capitalist free market, or Nozick provides strong arguments for communitarianism. Either you've misread their work, or they were so horribly wrong that they've managed to actually make a point anathema to their original one.

Secondly, the resolution was "This is a great feminist poem..." it is not great. It is universally hated. And no wonder: "Turn them against men compete love their ruin true" this isn't even remotely grammatically valid, yet alone legible and able to be comprehended.

Note my opponent's disinterest (or inability) to provide sources for those who like the poem. They cannot be found, because they do not exist. Seriously: google the poem, find a positive review that isn't from the same uploader each time under different names (most likely the author posting them online as well with an ego bigger than New South Wales). I cannot find any. They do not exist. This is not a great feminist poem, it is a terrible, terrible poem which uses the word "feminism".
Debate Round No. 3
No comments have been posted on this debate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Ameliamk1 3 years ago
Ameliamk1
shakuntalaStephen_HawkinsTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Con wins, pro could not prove that the poem was an accurate depiction of feminism...oh, and con, about your last round, Carl Marx's work is possibly the best defense of free markets I have ever read :). Good job.