The Instigator
shakuntala
Pro (for)
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The Contender
Duncan
Con (against)
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This poet is a better poet than Seamus Heaney

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/28/2013 Category: Arts
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 779 times Debate No: 36083
Debate Rounds (3)
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shakuntala

Pro

This poet is a better poet than Seamus Heaney
Seamus Heaney has no passion he has no music he has no emotion Seamus Heaney would be boring in bed
Seamus Heaney is a fine example of what is wrong with poetry now it is all clever -with no soul all words -with no music all boring with no passion no emotion

how could such a boring poet win the Noble Prize

examples
http://www.poemhunter.com...
Song
by Seamus Heaney

A rowan like a lipsticked girl.
Between the by-road and the main road
Alder trees at a wet and dripping distance
Stand off among the rushes.

There are the mud-flowers of dialect
And the immortelles of perfect pitch
And that moment when the bird sings very close
To the music of what happens

this poem is lifeless no music yet he speaks of music it is dead all in his head no soul or heart dead boring

yet this poet is alive with passion with music with emotion
[to be understood through an aesthetics of anti-poetry]

http://www.scribd.com...

NIGHT FLOWER -from Evil Flowers
by
c dean

Oh dark beauty of the starless night,
Who's steel grey eyes flash with light,
Bend o'er me thy heaving chest
That I may suck from it's copper-tipped fruit
The henbane that is sweet milk to my breast.
Let it's poisons burn up my pulsing veins;
Such that my flesh doth crawl with pain.

Ah! dark flower of the starless night,
Alluring black orchid with a musk-scented light,
Place o'er me thy voracious, black-bearded mouth,
Thy sweet dripping, pheromone-scented fount,
Enclose me in thy blooted blood red lips,
Crush me in thy libidinous embrace.
Oh! dark flower of the starless night,
Dissolve my soul in thy noxious musk,
Suck out my essence with all thy might,
Leave me an emptied, pallid lifeless husk
Oh! give me such bliss, oh such delight,
Oh! dark flower of the starless night.
Duncan

Con

Hello again. Did you want to debate again and remember that I'm Irish? So I'll be defending a national treasure today. I assume you're jealous of his Nobel Prize, but understand when a poet of writer receives the prize when his work is seen as a gift to literature. Erotic poetry is not a gift to literature. Next up, you say that his poems lack emotion, well, someone who reads only poems about lust may come to that conclusion. No, poetry doesn't always require emotion, especially when theming is used. Heaney used themes such as Childhood, Change, Family and Memory, looking back on his past which shaped him in a nostalgic manner, which is difficult to assign an emotion when you lived in a Troubled Northern Ireland. His poems often mention the tension he suffers and how he is unable to express emotion, such as in A Call, where Heaney recounts how he found it difficult to express his love to his father, whom he feared was near death. He was also skilled in metaphor, simile and various other poetic methods, so his title as Noble Nobel Winner stands. You insult him by comparing him to your erotic poets Shakuntala. And remember burden of proof is on you as prop.

Until then, I'll be waiting,

Duncan.
Debate Round No. 1
shakuntala

Pro

con says
"And remember burden of proof is on you as prop."

I have compared Heaney and dean with examples

and shown Heaney has no music no passion no emotion

con admitts this when
con says
]"Next up, you say that his poems lack emotion, well, someone who reads only poems about lust may come to that conclusion. No, poetry doesn't always require emotion, especially when theming is used.Heaney used themes .... is difficult to assign an emotion...is poems often mention the tension he suffers and how he is unable to express emotion, "

con says
" I assume you're jealous of his Nobel Prize, but understand when a poet of writer receives the prize when his work is seen as a gift to literature. Erotic poetry is not a gift to literature"

that shows the getting of a Nobel Prize is based on peoples hang up and political bias
if the Nobel Prize was based on MERIT and not taste writing about excrement farting or pissing could get a Nobel Prize

con says
"Heaney used themes such as Childhood, Change, Family and Memory, looking back on his past which shaped him in a nostalgic manner, which is difficult to assign an emotion when you lived in a Troubled Northern Ireland"

that is why I said "a Nobel Prize is based on ...and political bias"

the establishment love all that stuff he writes as it is so politically correct about themes such as Childhood, Change, Family and Memory

con says
"So I'll be defending a national treasure today"
Heaney is only a national treasure because he writes the kind of stuff you want to hear about

""Childhood, Change, Family and Memory, looking back on his past which shaped him in a nostalgic manner, which is difficult to assign an emotion when you lived in a Troubled Northern Ireland"

if Heaney wrote about excrement farting or pissing no matter how good his "metaphor, simile and various other poetic methods" were you would not be interested in him

as I said you can see the contrast between Heaney and dean one is musical passion and emotion
the other dry in his head emotionless -boring

reading dean out aloud you sing your heart beats to the passion you come alive
reading Heaney out aloud
you just say emotionless boring words you just come across as a dead fish
as I said Heaney would be so boring in bed
Duncan

Con

No, you misunderstand again. First up, true to your erotic nature, you constantly say he'd be boring in bed. Well, he's 74, so that is understandable. Next, The Nobel prize is awarded to those who actually benefit poetry itself with their talents. The only people your poet helps is a crowd of absinthe drinkers. (see previous debates where Shakuntala used being invited to absinthe lounges as a measure of worth) Next, his poems seem emotionless to you, but only because he was raised unable to express his emotions properly. He was from a cattle rearing family, but still found more interest in poetry. His desire to become poet set him aside from his family, and it was only years later when he could meet with them again. Irish culture holds great value for the past and the old language of Gaeilge. His poetry is often reminiscence on the past, and the nostalgia that comes with it. Emotion doesn't define quality Shakuntala. It is only one aspect, and using lust over and over is not talent either. But the Nobel Prize for literature was granted to him on the basis of what the Nobel committee described as works of lyrical beauty and ethical depth, which exalt everyday miracles and the living past. You constantly take only part of my argument, ignoring the rest, and then you throw in words like excrement and piss for no reason. Being vulgar does not equate to being a good poet, but I'm sure you'd know that by now if you ever could. As proposition, the burden of proof remains on you. You cannot just copy and paste both poems down, you must show reason as to why your side would be right. 20 debates and you still have people explaining the basic premise of proof to you. You should stop equating erotic poetry which appeals to the penis with actual poetry that appeals to the heart and mind. I saw that Edgar Allen Poe debate, so really now, you'd better give a pretty damn good reason while you're here. Until then, I'll be waiting,

Duncan.
Debate Round No. 2
shakuntala

Pro

I will show how much you are wrong about Heaney from your own words and the Nobel Prize committee

con says
"But the Nobel Prize for literature was granted to him on the basis of what the Nobel committee described as works of lyrical beauty and ethical depth,"

note it says
"lyrical beauty"

what a joke
How could the Nobel prize committee have the nerve to call Heaneys poetry lyrical-his poetry is as far from being lyrical than mere prose is

lyrical defined to be

http://www.thefreedictionary.com...
Adj.1.lyrical - suitable for or suggestive of singing
melodic, melodious, musical - containing or constituting or characterized by pleasing melody; "the melodious song of a meadowlark"
2.lyrical - expressing deep emotion; "the dancer's lyrical performance"
lyric
emotional - of more than usual emotion; "his behavior was highly emotional"

as my example shows
point 1 Heaneys poems are not suggestive of singing -yet dean are- Heaney just strings clever words together which have no music no melodies but deans poetry does sing has melodies

point 2 you admit Heaney has no emotion-yet dean has

"Heaney used themes .... is difficult to assign an emotion...is poems often mention the tension he suffers and how he is unable to express emotion, ""

as I showed
"reading Heaney out aloud
you just say emotionless boring words you just come across as a dead fish"
and the Nobel committee have the gall to say his poetry is lyrical

Thus I have shown why dean is a better poet than Heaney-ie more passion more music
even the Nobel committee prize lyricism-which dean is and as I have shown Heaney is not

Con has his given his reason why Heaney is a better poet than dean ie his lyricism
but I have shown with example and cons own words why Heaney is not lyrical

thus I have supported my case
where con has not adequately proven his case
Duncan

Con

Now, I understand you wouldn't know about this, but a form of traditional Irish music known as Sean Nos (meaning old style) is an old favorite in the Emerald Isle where Heaney lived. Sean Nos involves no instruments and the singer sets the pace and tone. You may not enjoy Sean Nos, but it is an integral aspect of the culture Heaney was raised in. A committee of experienced experts would however, know about Sean Nos, and the poet Heaney who used its lamenting style in his poems. Next, I never said that Heaney's poems are emotionless. You did. I said that Heaney found expressing himself difficult, and Nostalgia is a feeling. Heaney reflects on his past and how change approaches. Next, attack Heaney all you want, but you still have to prove how Dean is any better. Emotion does not equate to "It gives me a boner". You reading it aloud proves nothing anyway, if you read something out with emotion it gives it that emotion, if you use MS Sam, it sounds boring. Your interpretation and recital only shows that you have a long ways to go in terms of poetry. Heaney's poems make the reader think deeply about the language used, the suggestion of death and the separation of past and future. However, I see that looking back on previous debates, you are unable to read full sentences and can only take snippets of my speeches. I have also remembered the saying that if you argue with a fool, people may not tell the difference. Realizing the wisdom of this saying, I have decided to ignore your misguided and erotic rants regarding poetry from now on. This will be our last debate. If you challenge me personally, I will accept; I am a man of honour. But I am bored of you and your perverse nature now. There will be no promise of waiting or signature tonight.
Debate Round No. 3
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