The Instigator
TheGodButcher
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Mikal
Con (against)
Winning
15 Points

Thor(Pro) vs Goku(Con)

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
Mikal
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/30/2014 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 5,420 times Debate No: 62478
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (16)
Votes (3)

 

TheGodButcher

Pro

Created this debate to show the true power of canon marvel Thor.
Powerful enough to even to defeat Goku in combat. I'll will begin my argument after someone accepts my challenge.

(We may only use canon material from the comics and manga)
Debate Round No. 1
TheGodButcher

Pro

I will begin to with Thor's physical attributes that ultimately trump Goku's. Strength, Durability, Speed, Stamina.

I'll start with strength. On top of being the God of Thunder Thor is also the Norse God is strength. Despite what you see on shows and movies, Thor's canon strength is actually on a superman level. For example. Thor held together a badly damaged moon. Engaging Hercules in an arm wrestle and sent the planet they were on out of orbit while arm-wrestling. He's also resisted the gravity of a neutron star, Neutron Stars actually exert a lot of gravity for objects as small as they are (about 10 kilometers in radius). In fact, if you stood on the surface of a neutron star you would feel about 200 Billion times more gravity than here on Earth. He physical strength is so high that unlike Goku he has destroyed planets with mere strength alone. During his battle with Beta Ray Bill, he hit Beta Ray Bill (A being with similar powers to Thor) so hard that he destroyed the planet they were on. Goku on the other hand has never actually been a character with tremendous strength and when his physical strength is showed we can see how much stress it puts him through.

Durability! My next sentence may shock you but here. Goku's speed combined with his martial art skills are completely worthless because of Thor's high durability. First off Goku strength like I said earlier is not a planet busting level. This makes it impossible for him hurt Thor with his strength. Thor has flown into the heart of stars. Survived being hit by a doomsday bomb (A bomb capable of destroying a planet). And even took a blasts from a celestial ( Celestials: Standing well over 2,000 feet tall, each Celestial possesses godlike powers beyond imagination, capable of manipulating matter and energy on an immeasurable scale. The Celestials have shown the ability to move planets at will, lay waste to entire worlds that they deem unfit for survival, destroy artifacts that are thought to be indestructible, such as the Asgardian Destroyer Armour, and even contain and destroy entire universes-Comic Vine). Goku will end of hurting himself if he engages Thor. There is no denying that Thor can be injured however because his powerful life force, killing him is almost impossible.

Speed. Many believe Thor's speed is completely pathetic but it's actually extremely high. Even the Speed of Thor's hammer transcends time and space. Thor can appear anywhere in universe in a matter of seconds. He's even capable of teleporting. Dragon Ball fanatics will often make you believe that Goku's speed exceeds 100,000 times the speed of light but yet Goku has never actually gone that fast and his limitations are very clear. Thor may not be as fast as other comic book characters but he's been stated to be several times the speed of light. He's kept up with the Silver Surfer and and fought Gladiator (A Superman pastiche.) in hand to hand combat. And even if Goku was faster, we must remember that his physical strength is worthless.

Stamina! Thor's stamina is far superior to that of Goku's. Goku has very clear limitations and has never fought for more than 2 days. Thor's body on the other hand produces almost no fatigue toxins. He once continuously battled an army of frost giants for 9 months. Thor has been seen sleeping however it is mostly implied that is sleep is more of a luxury and not something he actually needs. He's also able to sustain himself and rarely needs food and can survive in the vacuum of space. Goku on the other hand clearly needs excess sleep and food.

Thank you accepting I look forward for you next argument.
Mikal

Con

There are a few aspects we need to compare to both super heroes. I am going to jump straight into this, but needless to say this is a non brainier in favor of Goku.

I just want to start out by listing a few of Gokus abilities

Super Saiyan
Super Saiyan 2
Super Saiyan 3
Super Saiyan 4
Kaio-Ken (Can junction with Super Saiyan Modes)
Ki blasts
Solar Flare
Homing Energy Wave
Spirit Bomb
Super Spirit Bomb
Ultra Spirit Bomb
Kamehameha
Ultra Kamehameha
Ultimate Kamehameha
Warp Kamehameha
Instant Kamehameha
Super Dragon Fist
Instant Transmission
After Image
Also a variety of other moves that I will not list due to limitations [1]

C1) Speed

This is a primary factor that will determine the fight. Thor at his best is not able to keep up with the likes of spiderman and wolverine in fights. When you compare that to Goku, it is literally no comparison. This is where Goku would flat kill Thor. Thor would virtually never be able to land a hit on Goku. The speed of light is approximately 299.792.458 m/s [2]. Goku in SSJ3 mode(not even in super saiyan 4 mode), can move at 440.000.000 m/s [3]. This puts Goku at 1.46 x faster than the speed of light.

For thor to finish the match he would have to be able to actually hit him, no where in one million years could that happen.

C2) Training and endurance

Gokus entire life is devoted to martial arts and fighting. He has a love for combat that cannot be bested. He can fight tireless for days on end, and is familiar with all forms of proper fighting techniques. His ability to read movements along with his ability to counteract the already slow throw would be monumental. A simple after image, would have the god distracted for days and he sulked around the battle field trying to hit goku. Even if thor managed to use an aoe attack that as devastating Goku has instant transmission to get away from the attack itself.

C3) Power

I want to first show the capability of Goku to destroy a planet. My adversary states that thor can hold up a moon, Goku can destroy it with the flick of a finger. Goku could blow up a planet with a simple chi blast in SS3. This is derived from broly. Broly has a power level of 1,400,000,000 [4]. Goku in SS4 has a power level of 1,500,000,000[4]. In Super Saiyan 3 Goku is at 1,200,000,000 . Broly was able to blow up a planet without even expending hardly any energy[5]. If Goku in SS4 is stronger than broly(this is without Kaio-Ken he would be able to discard of a planet with a simple chi blast. If he were to channel all of his energy into a thurst, he could easily decapitate thor or rip out his heart killing him).

A simple chi blast was enough for broly to destroy an entire planet while Goku is stronger than broly, we can logically conclude that Goku could do the same. The extent of thors power is making craters in the ground with his hammer. Sure he has endurance, but he cannot withstand a ss4 kaio ken Goku. Kaio ken multiples Gokus power x 20, imagine SSJ4 goku going into kaio ken. Sacrificing nearly almost his entire life and energy force for power. He could potentially blow up the galaxy he is in.

Just a quick example, thor has fallen to the likes of onslaught and even been killed by multiple other super heroes that are below class 5 in some cannon spin offs. Onslaught is a mix of Xavier and magneto [6]. Thor is beaten by a guy that grab his hammer from him using physic abilities the ability to control metal. He literally died to a amped up magneto and was reborn in another universe. While magneto is strong, comparing that to Goku is outrageous. As I said Goku at will can click an energy blast at earth and blow it up.

C4) Goku would just take thors hammer

Thor relies on his hammer. Goku is faster and stronger than thor. Goku could just grab his hammer and smack him to death with it. IT seems funny but literally thor has trouble hitting spider man who moves as fast as a moving car. Imagine him trying to keep Goku away when he can move at the speed of light

C5) Ways goku would win

There are countless. Amped up kaio ken dragon first would just insta kill him. A spirit bomb that could destroy a planet to his face. SSJ4 kaio ken with an energy blast would obliterate him. Constant smashing and a onslaught of punches from goku would wear him down

There are just countless ways goku could win, thor is completely outclassed

Conlussion

There is literally virtually no way thor has a chance. Superman maybe, but putting someone that cant keep up with spiderman in a mix with a Super Sayian 4 that can move faster than light and blow up planets is a joke. There is virtually no way thor would ever win this fight

[1] http://dragonball.wikia.com...
[2] http://galileoandeinstein.physics.virginia.edu...
[3] http://9gag.com...
[4] http://dragonball.wikia.com...
[5] See youtube video at the top of the page
[6] http://marvel.wikia.com...(Psychic_Entity)_(Earth-616)
Debate Round No. 2
TheGodButcher

Pro

Before I begin I would like for you to remember that this debate can only include canon material. Meaning SS4 Goku and Broly cannot be used to show Goku's power because they aren't actually a part of the material. This would also prove to bad for you because of the major contradictions Dragon Ball GT created. You realize that Onslaught isn't just and combination of Magneto and Xavier right? Onslaught has the power of near celestial. Also the other story you speak of is from a different universe.

Alright I'll counter your points on speed. Thor regularly fights to make sure he doesn't kill his comrade. For example in Superior Spider-Man #25 a venom enhanced spider-man fought Thor but in the end Thor shouted "I shall hold back no longer!" and has made it clear that he does whatever he can before killing his opponents. Thor never used his real speed with he doesn't require it. Also during the Siege event Thor fought against The Void (The counterpart of The Sentry, a 'hero' whose speed rips through space and time. ) and managed to land multiple blows. I'll go back to Silver Surfer a being who is well known for his speed (Faster than light) but on top of that he can also react and think at those speeds, yet Thor still defeated his combat.

Now your points on training and endurance. Thor is MUCH older than Goku and unlike Goku he is also the God of WAR. Meaning he has vast knowledge on combat. He has trained much longer than Goku. Instant transmission is worthless considering Goku would only use it to get away and any other way would be very unlike him. Also instant transmission has been proven to fail and Goku never uses it in abundance and he has been hit.

A spirit bomb is something Thor would never let happen. Thor has never watched as an opponent powered up or started an attack. Spirit Bombs take time. Also Goku would be unable to wield Thor's hammer, even if he was worthy. Another being could only use it if Thor allowed it.

I would like to bring up Thor's ability to manipulate and absorb energy even without his hammer. So even if Goku's false ability to destroy an entire galaxy where true. Thor has absorbed a Null Bomb which was designed to destroy all life in the Black Galaxy.

Finally I would like everyone to remember that Goku is the Son of Odin and the Earth Goddess Rhea. He was born to be the most powerful warrior in the universe and on day surpass even Odin. Who alone can defeat every single being on Dragon Ball with little to no difficulty.
Mikal

Con

My adversary starts by saying Broly is not cannon but that is false. He is actually mentioned in the main show and the addition to the broly series is considered canon by an overwhelming majority of the DBZ community. [1]

Canon by definition is

Canon - meaning that it is 'of the story' or something that could/did ACTUALLY happen in a story, used by fans and fanfictioners

Broly is included in the main saga of DBZ and the movie itself is shown to demonstrate his power. Now back to contentions and rebuttals

R1) Speed

My adversary just boldly claims that thor is holding back and says that he has defeated beings with high speed.

(a) Beating someone who is fast does not mean he is fast
(b) Beating someone that is fast does not mean he can beat Goku.

So to correct my adversary on his position, Thor at most can travel 24,000 mph or Mach 32[2]

" Thor can simulate flight at speeds up to Mach 32 (over 24,000 mph)" [2]

This however as it states and demonstrated in the show is a bulrush speed. Meaning he cannot fight nor control what he does at this speed. When he goes this fast it's like a train, and 24,000 mph is still a snail compared to goku. As I have demonstrated Goku can move at nearly 1.5x the speed of light. The speed of light in mph is 670,616,629 [3][4]

I am not going to break down what the mph equivalent of 1.5 x the speed of light is but I am just going to take speed of light in mph and compare it to thor. So let's assume that Goku just moves at the speed of light (which is false he is faster), but just to prove a point and compare it thors speed. Thor in a bulrush speed moves at 24,000 mph

670,616,629 / 24,000 = 27942

So Goku on balance if he moved at the speed of light which is slower than he actually moves is 27,942 times faster than thor. To put this in perspective there is no possible way thor would every keep up with him in speed and this is cited directly from marvel and thors capability of speed. You can view thors maxium speed in the link I provided. So my adversary claiming that thor can move as fast as Goku is just a false lie, nor is it supported by canon as I have provided the link to show this


R2) Training and Endurance

Cons points

P1) Thor is Older
P2) Older Means you fight better
C) Thor is older so Thor fights better

This is a fallacy off the bat as being older and being in combat more than someone does not make you a better fighter. WE can logically see this through MMA or just the appearance of new villains in marvel and many other universes that are younger being able to take down vertan fighters. Thor is a brute that relys on a hammer, he throws it around, is slow and just relies on sheer force. His power is not even planet buster sytle, it makes craters. As Goku literally survived the impact of planets blowing up he would be able to take anything that thor throws at him. Goku even fought on equal footing with Buu who has the capability of blowing up a planet a will just like broly. Goku has the capability to blow up planets at will, he has planet buster power



R3) Power

There is virtually no comparison. Goku in ssj3 or ssj4 literally at will can destroy planets. Even if Goku could not land a spirit bomb he could easily go into kaio ken x 10 or x20 in ssj3 or ssj4 and multiply his power to the point he was a God. This would nearly kill him and could possibly kill him but he would literally be untouchable. Goku in SSJ3 already has more power than thor alone, imagine Goku with 20 x the strength of ssj3 when he pops a kaio ken..

Let's review thors power and strength

" Thor possesses physical powers superior to those of normal Asgardian gods. He has an extended lifespan augmented (although not immortal) by the Golden Apples of Idunn, immunity to conventional diseases, enhanced endurance (Thor's Asgardian metabolism is far greater than a human), superhuman strength ([lifting 100 tons]), which increases further when he succumbs to “warrior’s madness,” a berserker rage, the mindless battle passion that increases a warriors strength tenfold. By chanting and performing an ancient ritual, Thor can also invoke the berserker rage to increase his strength. His skin and bones are several times denser than those of mortals, granting him extreme resistance to injury. " [2]


So thor on average can lift 100 tons, and hypothetically could lift up to 1k tons.

Now lets review Goku, Goku during DBZ as given armbands that weighed 40 tons alone. With weighted leg bands that are equal, and he was still able to move at nearly the speed of light and was training with them. So Goku by his own muscles could train with 80 tons on him and this is just with his pure physical strength. However Gokus ability and power stems from his chi. Goku in SSJ4 or SSJ3 has amplified strength to the max. To break this down Ill give you a cite on his exact power and the ability to lift and his strength


" On a Kai Planet he lifts 160 tons in the Manga, 40 tons a piece on each limb. This is just a basic approximation he can probably lift alot more, considering he was training his speed. Kai Planet = 100x earths gravity (king Kai knew goku had trained in 100x G before, so he had him train on 100x G Kai planet.). T = Tons G = Gravity 160T x 10G = 16,000 Tons


Super Saiyan transformation 50x strength increase, 16,000T x 50 = 800,000 Tons

SSJ2 usually regarded as a 4x strength increase, 800,000T x 4 = 3,200,000 Tons

SSJ3 also usually regared as a 4x strength increase, 3,200,000T x 4 = 12,800,000 Tons

SSJ4 strength increase 10x (Basically a minature Golden Oozaru), 12,800,000T x 10 = 128,000,000 Tons


If you now place this agains vegeta who trains at 500x earth gravity and above. 40T x 500G = 80,000 Tons


SSJ = 80,000 x 50 = 4,000,000 Tons

SSJ2 = 4,000,000 x 4 = 16,000,000 Tons

SSJ3 = 16,000,000 x 4 = 64,000,000 Tons

SSJ4 = 64,000,000 x 10 = 640,000,000 Tons


If you are talking about the very end of the Manga and Z, 10 years after above calculation. Base Goku is as strong as Kid Buu reincarnation, Which makes him as strong as his SSJ3 from 10 years ago. Base Goku = 12,800,000 Tons SSJ Goku = 640,000,000 Tons SSJ2 Goku = 2,560,000,000 Tons Achieved Over Billion SSJ3 Goku = 10,240,000,000 Tons. Achieved Over Billion

My calculation above are only approximations as Goku would increase in strength as he is training (Elder Kai gave him life which would last 1000 years). "

[5][6]






Conclusion

Goku all around just out classes thor, in strength, speed, and power. There is no comparison between the two. Goku has planet buster capability, can move at the speed of light, and is even able to lift over 1 billion tons when his chi is channeled. Goku is practically a God in the comic world, comparing him to a brute that moves at mach 32 and bashes craters in the ground is not even possible. Goku in every sense would destory thor.









[1]http://dragonball.wikia.com...
[2] http://marvel.com...
[3] http://www.universetoday.com...
[4] http://www.space.com...
[5] http://answers.wikia.com...
[6] http://dragonball.wikia.com...
Debate Round No. 3
TheGodButcher

Pro

Addressing the points you've made:
Broly is spoken about in the anime but never in manga. In fact certain things that happen in the anime never happened in manga. For example Vegeta destroying a planet in the beginning of the anime wasn't in the manga.

Speed) We're really going over this when I just explained Thor's many fights with beings of far greater speed than Goku. I already told you about the fights Thor has faced. The fact that Thor was able to combat Gladiator, Sentry, Silver Surfer means his speed is capable of matching Goku's. Thor is able swirl his hammer several times the speed of light with his hands.

Training and Endurance) Thor isn't actually is the brute everyone assumes he is, he was a brute but he's different ever since being worthy. Also Thor's hammer is in no way slow, it exceeds time and space. Also you ignore the fact that Thor is beyond a planet buster, his strength is enough to close dimensional rifts. During his battle with The God Butcher (Thor: God of Thunder #1-#10) they're clash destroyed planets. A young Thor was also able to create a black hole just by striking Gorr. The fact is Thor has more experience.

Power) He lifted a star core during the God Butcher Arc. A star is a lot more than 100 tons. Spider-Man is class 10 meaning he strength is around ten tons. Luke Cage would be class 30. But any being with strength higher than 100 tons is considered class 100 . You tried to use that paragraph out of context. Even the Hulk, a being with limitless strength stated that Thor and Him will have eternal debate on who's stronger. When Goku has ever lifted that much? Also don't use Super Saiyan 4 because SS4 lifted a city and struggled with it so that contradicts you all the more. And if Goku could lift a billion tons, Thor still manages to resist the gravity of neutron star, a physical feat Goku has never come close to accomplishing.

Now that I addressed your points and made myself pretty clear on how superior Thor's physical abilities are, after you completely ignore every one of the examples I wrote. I'll now leave Thor's physical attributes and instead talk about Thor's abilities that come with his hammer. Thor's powers aren't just weather related.

"The Asgardian warhammer Mjolnir: Thor wields Mjolnir, a hammer forged from Uru metal, whose chief properties are durability, the ability to maintain enchantment, and absorb energies. Mjolnir resembles more of a short handle mallet than a traditional warhammer. Mjolnir itself is already extremely durable, and combined with the various enchantments placed upon it by Odin, is even harder. It has survived heat as extreme as the heart of the Sun, and blasts powerful enough to destroy planets."-Marvel Wiki

Mjolnir's abilities:
-Worthiness Enchantment
The hammer is unable to wielded by those who are not worthy. Goku is a character with very different morals and personality. It's clear that Goku is not worthy, Thor would never risk the earth's safety just to see his son fight (Cell Saga), Thor would never wait for his opponent to power to fight them at their best. Many comic and manga heroes wield weapons, some weapons can be wielded by others and used against the original wielder and some cannot be used by just anyone. Thor's hammer is one of those weapons. Goku couldn't use Thor's hammer against him. The worthy enchantment cannot be bypassed, mainly due to the fact the enchantment is a product of Odin's magic (Odin A god whose power is above any God from Dragon Ball)

-Mystical Link
Mjolnir's obeys Thor like a living object. The hammer can pass through any barrier to get to him, it can carve it's way through a planet just to get to him.

-Weather Control
Complete control over the weather. Picture what you see in the t.v and movies only a millions and millions of times worse. Not just on planets. He's capable of causing cosmic storms, Thor's ability to control and create storms extends to any and all storms as he has been shown to control and create powerful stellar winds in space and so on. "Thor can free weather effects, directly from Mjolnir. Like: thunders, lightnings, high winds, ice rays, solar flares and more."-Marvel Wiki. "Thor has also been shown to be able to conduct a planetary wide lightning storm to aid him in the process of physically melding back together a crumbling populated moon."-Comic Vine. If Thor desired it, he could cause the entire planet to suffer from extreme weather.

-Energy Projection: Anti-Force and Thermal Explosion
Anti-Force A blast whose power is enough to annihilate whole planets. Thermal Explosion a blast the releases thermal energy enough to harm villains life Ego the Living planet. Thor can use more than lightening to defeat Goku.

-Energy Sensing
The hammer can detect all types of energy. Especially evil and supernatural energy. Meaning Thor is completely aware of where Goku is.

-Energy Absorption and Redirection
Capable of absorbing and redirection energy back amplified. Able to absorb the energy of a galaxy destroying bomb (Null Bomb). The opponent doesn't even need to release the attack. Thor is able to absorb the energy from the users body (Thor demonstrated this against Kang the Conqueror ). Additional he can also absorb mystical energies.
-Teleportation
Thor can create a vortex and banish his enemies to the death dimension, limbo etc. And is capable of traveling across the universe and any other dimension.

-Matter Manipulation
"Thor can manipulate matter from a molecular level to a vast scale, which allows him to create other configurations and even allows him to transmute the elements themselves. This ability was evident when he transmuted the air around Absorbing Man's body to the gas helium"-Marvel Wiki. Thor has and can use them ability to change certain properties around them. He could turn Goku to stone and discharge his attacks by changing to molecules around.

-Alpha Particles
He can harness alpha particles to atomize any weapon.

-Cosmic Energy
He can produce and control cosmic energy and use it for a variety of purposes

-Instability and intangibility
Enough said. Goku has never actually dealt against opponents with either of these abilities.

-Electromagnetic Spectrum Manipulation

-Illusion Detection
Something to note but not really worth much since Goku wouldn't use such an ability even if he could.

-Absorption of Life
Capable of absorbing the life force of an opponent.

-Force FIeld Projection/Barriers
Thor can create barriers and force fields that can protect and contain planet busting explosions. Which could render some of Goku's attacks useless.

I'm eager to hear your response. I saved my favorite feats and abilities for last and I'm confident it'll be enough to counter anything.

[1] http://marvel.wikia.com...(Earth-616)
[2]http://www.comicvine.com...

Images
Enegy abosrtion and maniplation: http://i388.photobucket.com...
http://i388.photobucket.com...

Holding a populated moon together with strength and healing it with a planetary lightning storm:
http://static.comicvine.com...

Thor's combat speed (Fights againsts beings whose speeds far surpass the speed of light):
http://static.comicvine.com...
http://static.comicvine.com...
http://k36.kn3.net...
http://i388.photobucket.com...
http://static.comicvine.com...
http://i388.photobucket.com...

Teleportation:
http://i388.photobucket.com...

Weather Manipulation:
http://i1355.photobucket.com...
http://i.imgur.com...

Black Hole Creation through physical strength (YOUNG THOR):
http://static.comicvine.com...+(12).jpg

I'm eager to hear your response. I saved my favorite feats and abilities for last and I'm confident it'll be enough to counter anything.
Mikal

Con

My adversary just lists a lot of abilities this round and how powerful he thinks thor is. My adversary keeps asserting that broly is not canan but even admits he is spoken about during the anime. Broly is in fact canan and as I cited prior to this most if not all DBZ sources support this. Now for some brief rebuttals

R1) Speed

My adversary keeps on asserting that thor can move at the speed of light. This is directly false, I cited and showed sources to support this. This is not just random articles either this is marvels own assessment of thors capabilities. They directly state he can maintain speeds at highest of mach 2, and even then is not even capable of fighting at that speed. He can just achieve it in a bulrush flight. Unless my adversary wishes to contest that source and says marvels own direct link to thors capabilities are false then I can say clearly that is a point in my favor. You can view the comparison and sources above when I I compared Goku vs thor in the prior round.

he also asserts thor has fought people that *can* move at the speed of light. I want to address some issues with this argument

A) Just because someone can move at a certain speed does not mean that can actually fight at that speed
B) Goku can move at the speed of light, and actually can fight at the speed of light

Being able to move at the speed of light does not necessitate the ability to fight at the speed of light. Goku has and can fight at super light speeds, which is something thor can never contest via marvels own acknowledgment that the fastest he can fly in mach 32.


R2) Power and training

I link you back to this source ( http://marvel.com... ) , my adversary keeps asserting that thor can lift a planet. If he did lift a planet this is not cannon, as marvel directly cites the most thor can lift is 100 x 10 (tenfold) or 1000 tons. I did the math above to show that Goku far surpasses that in terms of strength. When has Goku lifted that much is a non sequtir. Its the potential he has to lift that much due to the lifting be applicable with his chi. I worked out the stats above to break down the capacity and capability to lift that much. The thing is my sources support that Goku can in fact lift this. My adversary is making an assertion that thor can lift more than what marvel says he can lift. If i can just apply an trait to goku with baseless assertions, then I could claim the same feats. In the sources above it clearly states that thor can lift 100 x 10 tons at most and that is even him in a rage.

Now on to counter some of thors abilities


While Goku could not actually wield it ( I meant that as a joke), thors hammer would be virtually useless. He would never hit goku due to gokus advanced speed

" Wielding Mjolnir, Thor can summon and control the powers of the storm, causing rain, wind, thunder and lightning. Thor can channel the storm’s fury into devastating energy blasts that can destroy even secondary Adamantium. Mjolnir can also generate energy blasts called “Anti-Force.” Due to its uru metal composite, Mjolnir can absorb other energies into itself, which Thor can then release. " ( Wielding Mjolnir, Thor can summon and control the powers of the storm, causing rain, wind, thunder and lightning. Thor can channel the storm’s fury into devastating energy blasts that can destroy even secondary Adamantium. Mjolnir can also generate energy blasts called “Anti-Force.” Due to its uru metal composite, Mjolnir can absorb other energies into itself, which Thor can then release. "(http://marvel.com...)


R3) Thors abilities


A list can be found here

" http://marvel.wikia.com...(Thor_Odinson) "

The most powerful abilities thor has is the God blast, which damaged a hurt galatcus in a fight. I will even link you to a place where thor used god blast , view youtube video here ( https://www.youtube.com... ), The destructive power of it is a slow beam that has minimal destructive capabilities. Marvel and DBZ are two different universes. A blast like that would never connect with Goku because of his ability to move past the speed of light. Thor has to take time to channel it, focus it, then use it, and even then its still a slow moving blast which Goku can easily avoid.





Not that in a fight vs wolverine, wolverine actually manages to damage thor. Wolverine moves at normal speed, has only adamantium for a weapon, and is virtually slower than most normal super heroes yet he was able to damage and hurt thor in a fight. Even marvel heroes like ghost rider have fought on an even level with thor




You can view countless videos as well further viewing their abilities in detail, almost everyone awards the win to goku. See videos above. Almost everyone acknowledges that when Goku turns super sayian there is no possible way that he would lose to thor and the abilites are viewed in dept in the videos as well. The second video cut goku short of his powers as well and was not even using super saiyan goku, and was comparing thor vs a kaio ken goku. Thors abilites are flashy but as I demonsrated they are slow, clumsy, and will not hold a candle to goku.

Goku can teleport, move at the speed of light, fight at the speed of light, has the capability to blow up planets with the flick of a finger. None of thors moves would do virtually nothing. Even if thor tried to alter the weather goku could just grab him teleport him someone else and make him re charage his ability. Thor would not even get a chance to channel any of these attacks due to gokus non stop onslaught.

This battle is a no brainer. If thor is fighting on even terms with wolverine, spiderman, and ghost rider, there is no way he could compare with planet buster power capabilty like goku has. Goku is the DBZ version of superman











https://www.youtube.com...

https://www.youtube.com...

Debate Round No. 4
TheGodButcher

Pro

Broly isn't canon. Yes I said he's talked about in anime but he's never talked about in the manga. Those are two different things. You cited the dragon ball wiki page on the dragon ball franchise, meaning it would include Broly The Legendary Super Saiyan because it was a movie based off the franchise.

Speed Response) Beings in Marvel with the ability to travel at the speed of light also have superhuman reflexes and agility that allow their bodies to move that quick. It's something all writers have put in to avoid confusion. For example Sentry moved fast enough to catch the bullet of an alien sniper rifle. Because they have agility and reflexes they're able to fight at light speed other wise they wouldn't have put it in. Flash can fight at light speed because writers added light speed to his character but also added reflexes and agility. If you seriously going to argue that flash doesn't fight a light speed you're really out of your mind, also that means the same for you, just because he can move at light speed doesn't he can fight at light speed. You can read the manga and watch the anime but you never get the impression they're moving that fast, and since it's not clearly stated you can't make the assumption. Also the official marvel site doesn't even say a thing about his speed. Also they're never updated. But there's something new I would like to address. Superhuman senses. "Thor's superhuman sense's allow him to see objects as far out as the edge of the Solar System, allow him to track objects traveling faster than light, and hear cries from the other side of the planet"-Marvel Wiki.
Why would writers even bother to give Thor that ability if he's they're gonna make him to slow to counter it? At the end the evidence points towards Thor's ability to fight at light speed. Same with Silver Surfer, he's able to think at light speed but not fight? Come on, that arguement was weak from the begining. The image of Thor vs Wolverine shows Thor blocking wolverine's attack. Also of course wolverine can damage him, Wolverine's weapon is adamantium a nearly indestructible metal, Goku himself would be cut by it if wolverine used it against him. By the way I explained Thor's reaction to hold back greatly. Spider-Man has never been on par with Thor and Spider-Man has said it himself. Plus Spider-Man's Spider Sense would be effective even on Goku considering it senses attackes before they arrive. It"s not a mystery. Going faster means you're also adding more blunt force. If you're driving at 85 mph and you make a sudden stop and are hit by an object in your car, it's going to hurt more than you going at 15pmh.

My contender says laughably that Thor is only able travel at Mach 24. However Thor whose only able to travel at "24 Mach" manages to take down in an opponent in a "few micro seconds"
http://i388.photobucket.com...
"A few" is defined as 1 or 2, a couple, 2 or 3 but not many. Yet at "5.4 microseconds is the time taken by light to travel one mile in a vacuum". And Thor would have been no slower than 3 microseconds. Meaning he was moving at the speed of light. So he managed take his opponent down and grab his hammer (Which moves at light speed). (Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org...)

Thor has been clearly said to travel at the speed of light.
http://static.comicvine.com...

He can travel to the sun in no time. (Avengers vs X-Men)
http://static.comicvine.com...

Power and Training Response) you talk about marvel saying Thor can't lift more than 100 tons yet you"re unaware that marvel handbooks and websites never specially state the character's actually limits. Even character"s like Spider-man whose listed as class 10 has been seen lifting thousands of tons on occasion. Every single source tells you that Thor"s strength is unclear. You should have clicked on ([100 tons]) because it would have taken you to the page where it explains what that means. It applies for Marvel and DC (Due to the fact that writers regularly jump around) yet you purposefully ignore what I explained in the last round where it explains classes simply to just say "it"s not canon". 90% of Thor"s history isn't canon? Really? My contender is clearly trying to manipulate information because he's clearly run out real arguments. Thank you for brining up "Warrior's Madness" because the first and only time Warrior's Madness happened, Thor went across the universe annihilating planets. So you brought a stage in which Thor actually has more strength they you're actually claiming he has. Which doesn't make any sense. In the last round I showed Thor fixing a moon. A moon he moved faster than light to reach and needed well more than 100 tons of strength to hold together. This issue isn't even old, it happened last year. It happened in the mainstream continuity (Earth-616).

Goku's punches when met with equal strength have never been able to do this.
http://i388.photobucket.com...

The earth's weight is 5.972 sextillion tons (Reference: http://www.ecology.com...)
Thor lifted the midgard serpent which was large enough to wrap itself around the world twice and weighed half of what the earth and we must also take into account the beast's strength and force it was aplying to the planet. Meaning it would have been over 1 sextillion ton. That's all we need to look who cares if that less than half. That's still more than a billion tons. Which is again, unlikely for Goku.
http://s388.photobucket.com...

Thor's Abilities Response) My contender is using feat known as "god blast" an altered version of an ability I'll be getting into later. See that's the thing you CAN'T view Thor's abilities because there has been no show or movie than has accurately displayed any Marvel or DC character. Meaning this entire time you just exposed how little you know about the character your against. Ignoring my first statement, which say's comics, not t.v shows or movies. You can't use a t.v show interpretation because he's nothing compared to the real thing. But you probably knew that, you brought up anyway because you know it's going throw off some people. What exposes your ignorance on these characters even further is that fact that you speak of Ghost Rider as some type of "street level" hero. Ghost Rider's powers come from Yaweh, the Christian god with the same level of power as Odin. Ghost Rider's powers are nearly limitless.

Finale.

-Super Senses
With Thor's super senses he's capable locking in on objects flying faster than light, so in other words he can track Goku in a fight.

-Healing Fator
Thor is nearly invulnerable but he can he hurt, in that case Thor also able to recover at higher speeds. Meaning that Thor would be able to recover from injury during the fight.

-Nether World Power
Thor can use Mjolnir to tap into the power of the Nether Worlds (dark dimensions). Meaning that even if Thor's power is used up, Thor can still tap into other demensions to suplmement himself. Meaning his supply of energy is nearly limitless and would outlast Goku. Althought it's unlikely he'll need it.

-Undead Lethality
A common arguement from Goku fantics is that Goku would just come back stronger from the after life. As soon as Thor touches Goku with his hammer, Goku would perish. SS3 puts extrmeme strain on his body and cannot be used for long. In fact it's almost impratcial to use it out of the afterlife, which would still be bad. So even if SS3 was on the same level as Thor, it's almost pointless.

-Worriers Madness
It's known as a weakness but if Thor needed to use this power he could and would, and this would increase his already immense powers ten fold.

-Negation of Mystic Energy
With his hammer he can negate the drawing of energy. Meaning Goku's spirit bomb would be negated as it draws energy from the organisms around the planet.

-God Blast
Think of it as Thor's version of the spirit bomb. Although it's much more powerful than Goku's spirit bomb.
"The God Blast is Thor's most powerful attack that comes with him being a God, Despite popular opinions, This can be done without his trusty hammer. Thor"s God Blast has been shown to be powerful enough to destroy beings such as the Midgard Serpent as well as causing harm to Galactus himself that caused him to escape though Galactus was in a weakened state at the time). Thor does not often use this ability for its destructive force and harm that it could cause to the surrounding area. This power can be used without the hammer, but it is less concentrated as shown in a fight with an enemy, once used a large circle was emitted from his body and destroyed the local area. He once used such an attack against Durok The Demolisher, a being who has defeated him in the past, although he did this without Mjolnir."-Comic Vine
With this move Goku would be nothing, he couldn't survie.
http://static.comicvine.com...

http://marvel.wikia.com...

Legacy
At the end Thor is destined to become more powerful than Odin. He's to have three daughters and has become King of Asgard. Went head to head against Galactus and won.
http://static.comicvine.com... That's in the future. But's clear that Thor was meant to strong. Think about it, young Thor created a black hole, not even with his trusty hammer. When has young Goku even done that?

Don't bother watching videos that display Thor and then tell yourself "Well that's Thor's limit". Instead actually pick up a a comic book because I assure you that you'll find an extreme difference in strength.

Thank you Mikal. This was a fun, first debate.
Mikal

Con

Okay I'm going to sum this up since we are just arguing in circles. My adversary is blatantly claiming that thor is capable of things mavel directly says he is not capable of. He keeps asserting that thor can move past mach 32 which is false. Marvels direct quote on his speed is below. He is posting things that directly contradict the offical capability for what marvel gives him credid for. This is cited directly below this with a link

" By throwing Mjolnir while grasping its leather thong, Thor can simulate flight at speeds up to Mach 32 (over 24,000 mph). Thor can steer Mjolnir’s path via his mental control over Mjolnir while traveling and can “hover” in place by spinning Mjolnir in his hand. " ( http://marvel.com... )

In regards to power again my adversary is making false assertions. How can someone lift the earth when they can barely keep up with wolverine or ghost rider, and plus again he contradicts the fact what marvel gives him credit for.

" Thor possesses physical powers superior to those of normal Asgardian gods. He has an extended lifespan augmented (although not immortal) by the Golden Apples of Idunn, immunity to conventional diseases, enhanced endurance (Thor's Asgardian metabolism is far greater than a human), superhuman strength ([lifting 100 tons]), which increases further when he succumbs to “warrior’s madness,” a berserker rage, the mindless battle passion that increases a warriors strength tenfold. By chanting and performing an ancient ritual, Thor can also invoke the berserker rage to increase his strength. His skin and bones are several times denser than those of mortals, granting him extreme resistance to injury. " ( http://marvel.com...;


This is the complete charts to thors capabilities per marvel, and as above it puts him rated at a 15. Keep in mind a few things this is marvels official rating. Thor can *swing* his hammer at the speed of light but cannot maintain speeds at the speed of light. He is only able to move at mach 32. Goku far surpasses the speed of light and is able to move and teleport faster than thor could ever see. I have broken this down over and over throughout the entire debate but my adversary just keeps failing to accept it. Thors speed per the official rating is a 7 while Gokus 7 as well but with far advanced speed. Even Gokus was down on a marvel scaled. The official video and charts can be seen above in the last round as well at the bottom of the page. There is actually a breakdown. Thor is classified as a 15 and *human* goku not super saiyan is classified as a 18. This is a kaio ken Goku not even transformed where Goku would easily surpass a 22.

Official Ratings[142]

Intelligence
2
Strength
7
Speed
7
Durability
6
Energy Projection
6
Fighting Skills
4


(http://marvel.wikia.com...(Thor_Odinson))

Goku

Intelligence
3

Strength
7

Speed
7

Durability
6

Energy Projection
5

Fighting Skills
5

Now compare this to gokus per the offical rating chart




That is the offical guid as to how to grid people. Per the offical charts, Goku is more intellegent than thor. Both have a 7 in speed and strength, but when we break this down further as I have done in the prior rounds we can see Goku is both stronger than thor, and can move nearly 1,000 times faster than him. All of this is cited. Both have the same durability and this could float either way with who is more durable. Thor has a slight edge in energy manipulation becuase he can alter elements while Goku is only a master of ki, and goku has a edge in fighting combat. The edge obviously goes to goku. Not be even just a little by alot.

No matter how you set up the grid it always falls this way, and Goku will always surpass thor in every sense possible.


Conclussion

We could keep arguing as to who would beat who, but in the marvel unviverse the simple answer is to use the power Grid as I stated last round. It is the best way to compare who would win in a fight and who has the edges. Goku comes out in every sense of the power Grid ahead of thor only loosing in two categories, and the two they are tied in he comes out virtually miles ahead due to him being way stronger and faster than thor



I don't feel like repeating the same arguments but I would advise you to read above. This is a recap of the debate

My adversary has

(a) contradicted marvels official power capabilites of thor, per my source
(b) Has not been able to show that thor is stronger than Goku nor has he even touched on the speed argument


His response to speed is the same thing

P1) thor has fought people who can move at the speed of Light
P2) Goku can move at the speed of light
C) Thor can fight Goku

He completey ignores the fact that fighting someone who moves at the speed of light and fighting someone that can actually fight at the speed of light are two different things which I have stated over and over


In the end this battle is not even close, even per the offical marvel power grid. Goku is all around better

Debate Round No. 5
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by BLAHthedebator 2 years ago
BLAHthedebator
In response to the superman vs goku in the comments section, Goku is the real winner because goku actually gains power over time, while superman uses an external source of energy, which is the sun. Plus, superman is afraid of a glowing rock - wait, no, he DIES to a glowing rock.
Goku may be afraid of Chi Chi and needles, and overall Chi Chi holding a needle, but it doesn't affect anything when it comes to goku in a battle.
Posted by QTAY21 2 years ago
QTAY21
My bad, I re-voted since my last vote was taken off, probably for that reason.
Posted by Jonbonbon 2 years ago
Jonbonbon
Wait, QTAY21 voted for the wrong guy according to his RFD
Posted by Jonbonbon 2 years ago
Jonbonbon
Hey, GodButcherer, I almost took conduct for this too but don't continuously bring up new arguments through the debate. Bring up your case then debate with that. Bringing up new supporting arguments every round is kind of annoying and generally considered bad form. I only didn't consider that in the voting because Mikal didn't complain about it.
Posted by TheGodButcher 2 years ago
TheGodButcher
General_Nevik And??? Thor has been badly damaged before and he still managed to lift heavy objects, you just make Goku seem all the more pathetic. Also Goku's SS4 is not canon. I already posted pictures of his fights against heroes faster than Goku so get over it, Thor fights at light speed. I'm still planning to bring up a couple other factors that would it make all the more easier for Thor to fight Goku's speed. I haven't talked about everything.
Posted by General_Nevik 2 years ago
General_Nevik
Again in response to round 4.

Goku struggled lifting a city because he had been in a seriously damaging fight. To argue Goku's strength shows ignorance on the subject. He is able to move planets, destroy entire sections of galaxies and withstand energy blasts which are able to destroy planets.

Although I agree that Thor possess super speed 'abilities' he is not able to sustain full body movement at the speed of light. Swinging your hammer at the speed of light is not helpful when your opponents entire body is moving at the speed of light.
Posted by General_Nevik 2 years ago
General_Nevik
Again in response to round 4.

Goku struggled lifting a city because he had been in a seriously damaging fight. To argue Goku's strength shows ignorance on the subject. He is able to move planets, destroy entire sections of galaxies and withstand energy blasts which are able to destroy planets.

Although I agree that Thor possess super speed 'abilities' he is not able to sustain full body movement at the speed of light. Swinging your hammer at the speed of light is not helpful when your opponents entire body is moving at the speed of light.
Posted by General_Nevik 2 years ago
General_Nevik
In response to round 2 and 3 of the Debate, in regards to 'speed'.

Instant transmission is not useless in a fight, Mecha cooler, Janemba and other high power level beings use it during fights constantly, not only this, but Goku can instantly be anywhere in the galaxy instantly, not only in life, but in the after life and several different dimensions as well. Not only that, we do know for a fact that Goku can travel faster than light, how much faster we can not say.
Posted by General_Nevik 2 years ago
General_Nevik
In response to round 2 and 3 of the Debate, in regards to 'speed'.

Instant transmission is not useless in a fight, Mecha cooler, Janemba and other high power level beings use it during fights constantly, not only this, but Goku can instantly be anywhere in the galaxy instantly, not only in life, but in the after life and several different dimensions as well. Not only that, we do know for a fact that Goku can travel faster than light, how much faster we can not say.
Posted by Gaming_Debater 2 years ago
Gaming_Debater
Oh come on. Thor couldnt possibly beat Goku.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by QTAY21 2 years ago
QTAY21
TheGodButcherMikalTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Made a silly mistake last time, so I'll be a little more brief. Based on the sources they have both provided, it's pretty clear con has the better argument. As much as pro denies it, it's pretty hard to say against the facts that Marvel themselves have provided. When talking about Goku, pro would not provide enough convincing arguments, and not enough sources to back his claims.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
TheGodButcherMikalTied
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Reasons for voting decision: my GOD....your spelling....-.- Anyhow, you had lots of contradictory arguments, pro, and mikal effectively pointed them out using his true evidence
Vote Placed by Jonbonbon 2 years ago
Jonbonbon
TheGodButcherMikalTied
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Reasons for voting decision: S&G- sorry, but pro I just couldn't handle the number of grammatical errors you made. There were points that I had to force myself to keep reading no matter how much I didn't want to read something I had to translate into cohesive English. In the end, pro was mostly unbacked (sources and arguments together), and pro even directly contradicted Marvel. Also, mikal came out with evidence to back of everything and points that proved Goku's superiority as an opponent to Thor.