The Instigator
FollowerofChrist1955
Pro (for)
The Contender
TheRealBatman117
Con (against)

Three types of Christians shown in the Bible!

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/11/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 weeks ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 453 times Debate No: 104959
Debate Rounds (3)
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FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

Rules are simple, must be scripturally supportable. Should be knowledgeable of scripture, able to speak intelligently about the subject matter. Contention- It is biblically ascertainable, that there are three types/kinds of Christian believers on the Earth.
1. Disciples of Christ (Sons of God) who will be Priest and Kings and granted right to share in Christ Throne recieving inheritence.
2. Followers of Christ who shall recieve some rewards but not right of Sonship nor (right to inheritence)
3. People of God .... who will recieve NO rewards and be saved ONLY!

The goal of this debate is to allow those who wish to go for a higher position, ample time to do so, BEFORE the return of Christ!

First. Is acceptance of debate with arguements to follow.
TheRealBatman117

Con

I am personally a Christian, and I can tell you that there is only one actual type of Christian, and that is those who believe in Jesus. Those others you speak of are Jews because in John 3:16 it says "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." And no I do not hate jews, I am actually part Russian Jew. God>highs and lows
Debate Round No. 1
FollowerofChrist1955

Pro

John 3:16. How true the Words of scripture. That it has ZERO to do with the topic ... was this an oversight? The debate is on the 3 TYPES OF Christians SHOWN IN THE BIBLE. Not that God MADE THE WAY, by which Men can be SAVED! Again not the question because it is not IN question, the Mercy of God indeed HAS provided all men the opportunity AND the Way.

I am personally a Christian though bears neither truth nor Proof, by the opponent, so I suggest we allow those who read to determine our profession by what we say, rather than by pronouncement. Well versed in scripture, likely top two Types of Christian, Biblically illieterate? Last type possibly unbeliever? As you have already Used a scripture completely and clearly that has NOTHING to do with the DEBATE TOPIC ITSELF raises eyebrow!

Indeed Westboro Baptist Church of the News ALSO profess Christianity yet act as the devil, on MORE than one occassion ..... what is their credo? Thank God for dead soldiers is it?
No my friend, a Christian IS what is demonstrated not CLAIMED. Though in your defense there is indeed a Type of Christian who professes Christianity, But is completely Biblically illiterate. It is Christian type 3 ... a People of God! Also spoken of in 1 Corinthians 3:15. These recieve NOTHING BUT salvation, thought there is a caveat attached to THIS particular Christian ......... except as one going THROUGH the Flames!
1 Corinthians 3:15
15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved"even though only as one escaping through the flames.

This is scripture not opinion. This scripture CLEARLY STATES .... there WILL be christians who GET NOTHING ... are saved ALONE! This requires no interpretation it is plain.
Christian Type 2 - Found immediately ABOVE this verse 1 Corinthians 3:14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.
IF ... to be predicated on something! Clearly NOT FREE. The REWARD then is NOT FREE ... given to all Christians .. because it is PREDICATED (IF) on something, which is WHY Christian 3 will ONLY BE SAVED! you see SALVATION IS FREE. A Gift of God.

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--

Romans 3:24
and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Romans 9:16
So then, it does not depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.

BUT, IF you are disobedient unto death ... salvation is ALL you get. Therefore, if you are Biblically illiterate, you can help no one, you are easily mislead, you are preoccupied with your OWN Life to consider God. You are for lack of a better term, scarcely better than Baalam.

Every ancient reference to Balaam considers him a non-Israelite, a prophet, and the son of Beor, though Beor is not clearly identified. Though some sources may only describe the positive blessings he delivers upon the Israelites, he is reviled as a "wicked man"[2] in both Torah and its commentaries, as well as in the New Testament.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org...

Thus we have TWO TYPES of Christians identified IN SCRIPTURE already!
Those who get a reward (1)
Those who DON"T (1)

The Third get everything. Rewards. Crowns, these are the Kings and Priests of God. Those having EARNED THE RIGHT to be Children of God, by obedience to death! The OVERCOMERS. Those who suffered Like Christ having overcome AS He overcame and is sat down in His Fathers Throne.

These are actual scripture statements! To no shocking revelation.
James 1:12 Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love Him.

Revelation 3:21To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I was victorious and sat down with my Father on his throne.

How WAS Christ victorious? Obedient unto DEATH!
Does my opponent dare to claim, Christ knew NOT SCRIPTURE? Absurd!
Does my opponent claim, Christ ignored Gods word to Live out His OWN Life? Nonsense!
Does my opponent claim Christ went off HIS OWN OPINIONS as he walked this World? Sacrilege!

Then so too MUST His Disciples also WALK to recieve a Crown of Life and the RIGHT TO SHARE His throne as He shares His Fathers throne!

It is clearly stated in scripture:
John 1:12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God--

Right to BECOME ... this does NOT say right to BE! It MUST BE EARNED! How?
Christ Himself tells you! Luke 9:23, Mark 8:34, Matthew 16:24

24Then Jesus told His disciples, "If anyone would come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me.

Is a Christian who denies some of the scripture and not others .. denying himself? ALL DENOMINATIONS of Christianity, deny some part of the bible, to FORM THEIR BELIEFS! That is not denying self, its denying the WORD OF GOD,
Deuteronomy 4:2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you.

Revelation 22:19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.

Deuteronomy 12:32
"Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it.

Now I ask you? Are those who do such things EARNING THE RIGHT to be Children of God? Absurd!
And they are not, therefore, since they are not Children of God, and since their not Disciples because they REFUSE to deny THEMSELVES .... they cannot BE Priests and Kings IN Gods Kingdom.

Christ Himself says that HERE:Luke 14:27
And whoever does not carry his cross and follow Me cannot be My disciple.

Type#3. DISCIPLES

to my opponent I"m not asking for your opinion we all have them, I have produced actual scripture identifying ALL 3
Scripture 1 Corinthians 3:14 Followers of God- recieve reward
Scripture 1 Corinthians 3:15 People of God- Are saved only
Scripture Luke 9:23, Mark 8:34 and Matthew 16:24. Disciples of Christ- recieve everything! Crowns, Kingship right to sit in Christ Throne!

You produce scripture that REFUTES all three. Bible please ... because commentaries are against scripture!

Here: 2 Peter 1:20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet"s own interpretation of things.

Prophets were NOT ALLOWED TO INTERPRET ... That ANY man should have the audacity to presume AGAINST scripture which denied this Right to the Prophets, the authority to interpret for themselves what scripture MEANS is very Jehovahs witness of them? Yet ... AS I UNDERSTAND IT, they are percieved a Cult by the Christian Faith ... are they not? WHY? Scripture interpretation! Uh ... excuse me, is the denominations NOT ALSO doing that? You see where this is going?

And yes Ive heard some scholars say ... that"s not what that means .... hilarious, did they write it? Then they cannot know what someone in the 1st Century MEANT! Courts don"t even allow that! That"s hearsay.
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Debate Round No. 2
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Debate Round No. 3
36 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 month ago
FollowerofChrist1955
What50;
If you read the rest it answers that question. But
"than how come there are multiple groups with different variation beliefs of the bible?"

Short answer ... they are doing what YOUR doing .... going by what THEY THINK! Not what God says!
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 month ago
FollowerofChrist1955
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Revelation 22:18
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll.

Deuteronomy 4:2
"You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Proverbs 30:6
Do not add to His words Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar.

Deuteronomy 12:32
"Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it.

Revelation 22:9
But he said to me, "Do not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God!"

The words of THIS BOOK! Amen!
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 month ago
FollowerofChrist1955
In conclusion
To even suggest that those who refused to deny themselves for Christ - Carnal Christians, who follow their own forms of religion, and not Christ ... could ever be disciples is ludicrous. Christ Himself, states emphatically you CANNOT be HIS disciple lest you deny YOURSELF.

to deny ANY part of the Word of God, to alter it to YOUR BELIEFS by way of MANs interpretation is many things .... but denying YOURSELF it is not!
Thus Evidence, is what matters not opinions?
Christianity - 2.42 billion
* Catholic Church - 1.285 billion.
* Protestantism - 900 million.
* Eastern Orthodox Church - 270 million.
* Oriental Orthodoxy - 86 million.
* Restorationism and Nontrinitarianism - 35 million.
* Independent Catholicism - 18 million.
* Minor branches - 1 million.

EVERY ONE OF THESE, has altered the scriptures to form a denomination ... therefore NONE of them are DISCIPLES!

they ARE SAVED ... yes! Because Salvation is ETERNAL LIFE with God given them FREE! they are People and Followers of God ... just NOT DISCIPLES!

IF you cannot BE HIS Disciple ... why on EARTH makes you think you are entitled to obtain/attain Priest and Kingship, Sonship/daughter-ship. If you cannot be even a Disciple because of YOUR ACTIONS how can you be so deluded as to presume you will reign over anything, when you cannot even reign in over YOURSELF!

Sadly the scriptures, which foretells the events of the future stated it openly ... 1 Timothy 4:1
1Now the Spirit expressly states that in later times some will abandon the faith to follow deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons, 2influenced by the hypocrisy of liars, whose consciences are seared with a hot iron."

2 Thessalonians 2
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 month ago
FollowerofChrist1955
So then WHEN a disciple DENIES HIMSELF, takes up his cross and follows after Jesus, they will neither forsake the Word, nor the time requirements required to bond with the Lord Himself, and it is THROUGH THIS BOND, God Himself manifest all truth to and through them, to those who he (God) reaches out to!

Now the shocker: hearing the WORD of God as IS, without personal interpretations getting in the way!

We come to the unpleasantness of today. Those who willfully demonstrate violations of the Word of God. Those who violate Gods word daily clearly cannot be disciples ... can they? I mean their violating scripture. Can a person violate scripture willfully and CLAIM discipleship? Absurd! Can a Christian DENY Gods OWN WORDS choosing instead to interpret Gods Word towards their OWN beliefs and BE a Disciple.

The point is that any refusal to accept the inerrant Word of God as written, is to deny the inerrancy of the Word. This alone places the believer in a state of denial of The supremacy of Government d Himself, believing that God though alledgedly all powerful, CAN BE outwitted by interpreters, linguists, and machinations of Man.

It is folly to profess belief in the supremacy of the Creator, only to unwittingly suggest, one of such ominence and power, can be manipulated by the wiles of Men! Which obviously requires the assistance of Scholars and Theologians to render real truth, is in a word scandalous, and clearly places such persons in the area of 1 Corinthians 3: 14 at BEST!

Such conduct can not under any circumstances be defined as denial of SELF, by any streatch of the intelligent mind. Thus we come to the remainder and conclusion of the matter, topic and teaching.
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 month ago
FollowerofChrist1955
It is clear that 1 Corinthians 3 HAS clearly identified TWO TYPES of Christians in its text taken as stated, without interpretation!

Those who recieve some rewards, those who will ONLY be SAVED from Hell! We ended with the 3rd TYPE.
DISCIPLES.

As is clear IN SCRIPTURE there IS A REQUIREMENT to be a disciple. You cannot claim it. It must be GRANTED! Christ has placed stringent parameters upon it, with NO OPTIONAL ways around it. Christ states emphatically.... you CANNOT BE MY DISCIPLE if these parameters are nor met!

Just like the self prounounced "Prophets of today? " you can claim it ... that no more makes you one, than a pink bow Transforms a pig to a poodle!

So what MUST the DISCIPLE DO? Luke 9:23, Mark 8:34 and Matthew 16:24
Then Jesus told His disciples,"he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow Me. "

And if you don"t? Luke 14:27
And whoever does not carry his cross and follow Me *******cannot be My disciple.*******

That Christ saying that ... so what EVERY DENOMINATION IN THE WORLD SAYS ... is moot! Christ says what IS, not denominations, scholars, theologians, pastors, priests, preachers, teachers .... nobody BUT God!

THIS is why the disciple is not included in the IF, of 1 Corinthians 3:14. Because the disciple has DENIED HIMSELF. That very much means forsaking, HIS OWN beliefs, his own wants, desires and motives, his rights to humanities inalienable human rights , foresaking all ... Living eating and breathing the Word of God ALONE. You won"t find them, searching commentaries, because they don"t care what Men think God meant, they care WHAT GOD MEANT .. and BECAUSE they KNOW and STUDY scripture daily, searching it, i prayer, supplication to God Himself.

God TEACHES THEM HIMSELF! John 6:45, Isaiah 54:13, Phillipians 3:15, 1 Thessalonians 4:9, Hebrews 8:11, 1 John 2:27
Posted by What50 1 month ago
What50
So uh, basically, read the bible, and you will start the stepping stone of the understanding of god? I mean on the perspective part, if the bible says is absolute truth, than how come there are multiple groups with different variation beliefs of the bible?
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 month ago
FollowerofChrist1955
Which of these Christians would you believe IS the self interpreting Believers?

1 Corinthians 3
But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person"s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be save.

If you said 1 Corinthians 3:15 you would be correct ... for scriptural reasons which shall become clear in the next portion of the Biblewe look and read!
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 month ago
FollowerofChrist1955
I"m sorry What50;
I failed to actually answer the question.

But you WILL understand! God is RIGHT ... only God!

Remember what they did to Christ AND the apostles? Think... WHO KILLED THEM? Athiests? Unbelievers?
NO .... THE RELIGIOUS KILLED THEM ... just as they try to do US today! When told they are wrong, self absorbed, in VIOLATION of the Word is of God itself!

They attack, strike out, claim GODS WORD IS WRONG! Their INTERPRETATION is the RIGHT ONE ... just as you said. But here"s the thing my friend.

Behold: 2 Peter 1
20 Above all, ****** you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet"s own interpretation of things. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Take note it says "ABOVE ALL! ". do you really need someone ELSE to interpret what that means!

NO PROPHECY OF SCRIPTURE CAME ABOUT BY THE PROPHETS OWN INTERPRETATION!!!!

I mean do I have to smack people over the head ... it"s instruction IS CLEAR ... NO PERSONAL INTERPRETATIONS ALLOWED! EVER!

The proof is in your statement "All of these groups claim to be the rightful way to follow the bible, so how do we know who is telling the truth?"

Answer: NONE! Their SAVED because se Salvation IS FREE, but I bet you can tell which Christian they are in this next scripture ..whitout MY having to point it out!
Posted by FollowerofChrist1955 1 month ago
FollowerofChrist1955
What50;
So from you comes the answer to ALL the Religious of the World. In YOUR words is found the TRUTH of it all.

"I mean isn't the bible based on perspective. "

WRONG! And it is BECAUSE this statement IS FALSE, that humanity and Christianity as a whole has fallen into disarray, confusion. HUMANITY has DECIDED that the Bible IS NOT the inerrant Word of God and be cause they REFUSE to submit to the will and authority of God ... God has given them over to their own folly.

Imagine ... can I or you, no matter our education honestly tell any other human being what a person of the 1st Century MEANT by the words he wrote DOWN?

Only fools would think so! In truth only the one having WRITTEN it knows WHAT HE MEANT, not some pretended scholar 2000 years later! The mere thought alone is absurd when taken into consideration with clear head!

I can no more tell You What you meant, without conversing directly WITH YOU! Obviously .. neither scholars nor theologians, nor pastors nor preachers nor priest can question the Apostles nor prophets of old.

Yet these learned men turn to each other, and their certificates, and degrees, instead of abiding by the WORD OF GOD, which ALL HAVE BEEN COMMANDED TO DO, yet ALL have disobeyed!

let scripture of truth point the way. 1 John 2:27
As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him.

No interpretation NEEDED it"s PLAIN! The Spirit of God teaches YOU! Where does it say scholars? Theologians, Historians? Pastors, Priests? Teachers? Commentaries? Other books? NOWHERE!

Need proof ... keep listening to this topic ... it is coming!
Posted by What50 1 month ago
What50
I mean isn't the bible based on perspective. There are multiple sub groups of the bible who perceived the bible in different ways and that comes with different teaching. All of these groups claim to be the rightful way to follow the bible, so how do we know who is telling the truth?
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