The Instigator
eltigrey
Pro (for)
Losing
7 Points
The Contender
phantom
Con (against)
Winning
14 Points

Tigers are the true king of the Jungle

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/29/2011 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 6,144 times Debate No: 18538
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (14)
Votes (5)

 

eltigrey

Pro

1st round acceptance. I would like the opponent to be my skill level in debate, but if you are really interested you can challenge me.
phantom

Con


Burden of proof:

The burden of proof is on pro to prove that tigers are the king of the jungle.




Definitions:


King - a male monarch of a major territorial unit; especially : one whose position is hereditary and who rules for life[1]

Tiger - a large Asian carnivorous mammal (Panthera tigris) of the cat family having a usually tawny coat transversely striped with black [2]


Structure:

As round 1 is for acceptance round 2 and 3 should be for arguments and rebuttal. Round four no new arguments.




I look forward to seeing how my opponent will argue that tigers are king of the jungle. Thank you and good luck.


Sources:

[1] http://www.merriam-webster.com...

[2] http://www.merriam-webster.com...




Debate Round No. 1
eltigrey

Pro

You probably already know that tigers do not live in the same habitat as the lions, but this debate is proving who is the better leader or "king." (almost who would win in a fight, but not exactly that)

P1: Hunting

Lions are pride hunters, while tigers are solitary hunters. Lions don't have to hunt if they don't need to, while tigers, if not grazing, or cleaning themselves, will most likely be on the hunt. Tigers also have a sufficient advantage, with there powerful back legs allowing to take down there enemy much more easily. They are also more a lot more agile.


P2 a): Statistics
(Statistics taken from http://indrajit.wordpress.com... directly)

(Lion)
Largest Lion in captivity: 806 lbs (366 kg)

Largest Lion found in the wild: 702 lbs (318 kg) and 11′ (3.35 m) [INDRAJIT.WORDPRESS.COM/BIGCATS]

Average size (mode) of African Lion: 410 lbs (186 kg) and 8’10″ (2.7 m)

** Lions stand around 1.15m (including mane) at shoulder as opposed to 1m of a tiger **

(Tiger, Bengal, and Siberian)
Largest Siberian Tiger found in the wild : 845 lbs/ 384 kg.

Longest Siberian Tiger found in the wild: 12’9″/ 3.9 m [HTTP://INDRAJIT.WORDPRESS.COM...]

Largest Bengal Tiger found in the wild: 857 lbs/ 389 kg. 3.22 m 10 ft 7 in between pegs (3.37 m 11ft over the curves)

(The largest tiger ever held in captivity, and the heaviest ‘natural big cat’ on record, is a nine-year-old male
Siberian named ‘Jaipur’, owned by animal trainer Joan Byron-Marasek of Clarksburg, New Jersey, USA. This tiger measured 3.32 m 10 ft 11in in total length and weiged 423 kg 932 lb in October 1986)

Average size (mode) of Siberian Tigers living in the wild: 550 lbs (250 kg) and 11′/ 3.35 m

Average size (mode) of Bengal Tigers living in the wild: 500 lbs (227 kg) and 9’6″/ 2.9 m (Bengal tigers have a slightly shorter tail than the Siberians) [HTTP://INDRAJIT.WORDPRESS.COM...]

** The Bengal Tigers have the longest canines **

P2 b): Comparison

Tigers weigh more , making them a little bit bigger than lions, thus giving them an advantage. Not mentioned in the statistics, but also a fact, is that tigers have bigger claws, and canines. They are also very agile, and if you combined all of these factors, it basically makes the tiger a "bigger" cat. Lions are almost the exact same, and are capable of taking down bigger animals, but usually the "bigger" animal does not tend to fight back.

P3: A Fight?

Tigers being a lot bigger than lions, along with being more agile, while lions are very strong. If both a lion a tiger were to square off, it is a very difficult discion to see who would win. A tigers pounce, strike and bite are two of its very powerful moves, while lions are very strong, make nice use of there claws, and are known for taking down enemies bigger then them. But there is no true winner. A lion is more likely to win in a small area (cage) because tigers will not be able to harness there full speed. A tigers agility is its key to winning, while a lions key is brute strength. In a larger cage, a tiger is more likely to win, because it will be able to move around, and maneuver easier. Who is the true champion. We will leave that up to the voters. A lazy hunter, and a strong fighter, or a solitary hunter, and a fast fighter.

Good luck in the next round opponent

Sources:

http://indrajit.wordpress.com...

http://answers.yahoo.com...
phantom

Con

No way dude, Chuck Norris is obviously the king of the jungle!
I'm joking, but my opponent seems to assume that I think the lion is king of the jungle. I do not. I choose the elephant.

This resolution would have been easy to take advantage of by semantics, but I've decided to stay away from that so we can have a good debate here.


Now let's begin. I will make my arguments first, then rebuttal.


Arguments:


C.1 Elephants would win in a fight.

-My opponent himself stated that this debate is almost about who would win in a fight. I think my opponent would have a hard time proving that a tiger could kill a six ton[1] elephant. In fact, I'd say the idea would be almost silly. The elephant would easily kill the tiger by trampling it or goring it with it's 61 Kilogram tusks.[2]
-According to one article elephants are responsible for 300-500 deaths per year.[1] The article also estimates that big cats are responsible for 800 deaths per year, but note that includes lions and lionesses as well.
-Elephants have even been known too hurl objects at people for protection.[4]
-Elephants are also very intelligent giving them an advantage in a fight as I will show in my next contention.




C.2 Intelligence:

Aristotle said of the elephant “The beast which passeth all others in wit and mind”.


Other than humans elephants have the largest social network amongst land mammals. [2]

Another article rates them as the most intelligent creatures on earth. Some even say their intelligence rivals that of humans. [3]

Here is a list of abilities elephants are able to do; mimic sounds, self-medicate, play with a sense of humor, escape captivity, perform artistic activities, remove ticks by use of a stick, use tools and display compassion and self-awareness. [3] [4]


C.3 A protector and helper:

Unlike the tiger the elephant will actually help and protects other animals. In one case an elephant repeatedly tried to help a baby rhino out of the mud, even after the mother rhino charged the elephant. [5] Elephants will stay with other dying elephants and comfort them. If an elephant falls or gets stuck other elephants will come to its aid. [7]



C.4 Long life


An elephant will live from 70 to 80 years old. [2]


Rebuttal:

Response to P.1: Hunting:

While tigers are good hunters elephants don't need to hunt. If elephants were predators then yes this would be a good point, but elephants get their food in a different way than tigers. Plus elephants could easily kill other animals, as shown in my first contention. So if they needed to hunt they could.

Response to pros statistics:


I will ignore pros stats on lions as that is irrelevant.

Tigers weight compared to elephants weight.

The African savanna elephant can weigh up to 9 tons (8,000 kg).[5] According to pro, the heaviest tiger was only 423 kg. This is less than 1/16 the weight. Elephants easily win on weight.


My opponent compares tigers to lions saying they weigh more. His point is that they are superior. Well since I'm arguing for elephants and not lions and since elephants weigh way more than tigers we can say that elephants are more superior in this way.

//Lions are almost the exact same, and are capable of taking down bigger animals, but usually the "bigger" animal does not tend to fight back. //

No evidence.



Response to P3: A Fight?

Well there's not much I can say here seeing as my opponent is comparing tigers to lions. So since whether a tiger would beat a lion or not is irrelevant please see contention 1 for my argument on whether an elephant would beat a tiger or not, thank you.


I hand it over to pro. Good luck.

Sources:

[1] http://www.dirjournal.com...;

[2] http://www.africapoint.com...;

[3] http://www.andrews-elephants.com...

[4] http://natureinstitute.org...;

[5] http://advocacy.britannica.com...

[6] http://scienceray.com...

[7] http://saisdiary.wordpress.com...
Debate Round No. 2
eltigrey

Pro

Wow I did not think this would happen. I apologize for assuming that you were using the lion. I regret now that I named my debate "Tigers are the true king of the jungle" I guess I really meant to say "Tigers are better than lions" or something along those lines.

Great job, elephants are cool, but I am going to have to go ahead and forfeit.




phantom

Con

Awwww...Oh well thanks for the debate, it was fun while it lasted. And thank you for being a good sport and not just timing out like allot of people would do.




Debate Round No. 3
eltigrey

Pro

I hope that wasnt you
phantom

Con

Lmao off no! Here's two more appropriate vids though.



Vote Con!



Debate Round No. 4
14 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by phantom 3 years ago
phantom
No one cares.
Posted by Tigris 3 years ago
Tigris
You actually think elephants would trample a tiger. Tigers currently hunt and have predated on elephants in the past.

http://jackjacksonj.webs.com...
Posted by Tigris 3 years ago
Tigris
If you're debating about who's better then know what you're talking about.
Posted by max_p_robertson 5 years ago
max_p_robertson
sory my spell check is broken
Posted by max_p_robertson 5 years ago
max_p_robertson
hey sorry i just think that tigrs are better than lions not ellaphants
Posted by eltigrey 5 years ago
eltigrey
Sorry about the counter, my stupid freind did that
Posted by phantom 5 years ago
phantom
Thanks for countering it.
Posted by phantom 5 years ago
phantom
My opponent concedes and I'm losing the debate??
Posted by DanT 5 years ago
DanT
LOL that video rocks
Posted by phantom 5 years ago
phantom
Haha that is a good vid to post on debates, or forum replies lol.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by airmax1227 5 years ago
airmax1227
eltigreyphantomTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by randolph7 5 years ago
randolph7
eltigreyphantomTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Concession, plus elephants rock. Counter Votebomb by max_p
Vote Placed by max_p_robertson 5 years ago
max_p_robertson
eltigreyphantomTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: dude it tighers win
Vote Placed by seraine 5 years ago
seraine
eltigreyphantomTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Exactly the route I would have taken.
Vote Placed by F-16_Fighting_Falcon 5 years ago
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
eltigreyphantomTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Concession.