The Instigator
GaryBacon
Con (against)
Winning
25 Points
The Contender
GeoffG
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Tip Jars: For or against?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/21/2008 Category: Society
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,528 times Debate No: 2044
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (5)
Votes (7)

 

GaryBacon

Con

There are now an overwhelming number of tip jars in places that never had them before. Until a few years ago I was never expected to tip the guy warming up a slice of pizza or the woman that serves me a cup of coffee at Dunkin Donuts. Yet now almost every store has one of these jars and I feel it has become ridiculous. A person that does a mediocre job at a menial task does not deserve any extra money from me. In most of these jobs, the workload is so simple that it is hard to even define who is efficient and who is not. I believe we need to put a hold on tipping every single person in every store. Tips should be reserved for waiters, cab drivers, porters and other such positions. The grocery store clerks deserve only the salary that they are paid. Nothing more, nothing less. In fact, I will say that sometimes they may be underpaid. But a wage increase even in these cases should come from they manager or store owner. It should not come from the customers.
GeoffG

Pro

The idea behind the tip jar is to reward above average service.
If that woman that serves you coffee at Dunkin' Donuts does so in a fashion that you find remarkable or especially pleasing, give the lady a tip. If not, walk out the door as you normally would. The beauty of it is, even if she does do it all nice like, you still don't have to tip, it's always optional.
Tipping is not about efficiency, it's about service.
Also, I don't know what you're talking about wage increases for, that's a completely different subject. Say what you will about waitresses and cabbies, tips are just part of the territory there, but would other jobs it's just gratuity. (Further, on the wage increase things, even if the managers are the ones giving the raise, the money still comes from the customer.)
Debate Round No. 1
GaryBacon

Con

Starting with your first sentence, I must ask how one would serve coffee in a fashion that is remarkable or especially pleasing? Of course there are many servers that cannot even get a simple coffee order correct, but when someone does is it really remarkable? Serving coffee is a menial task. I can see no way in which someone serving a cup of coffee or warming up a slice of pizza can do so in a remarkable fashion. That is the main point. These tip jars are placed in areas in which the tips cannot possibly reward outstanding service. All they can do is reward mediocrity, and this can be a very bad thing. When mediocrity becomes exceptional and deserving of a tip, incompetence becomes acceptable.
I understand that tipping is about service, but this country is the only one in which almost every service now seems to have a tip associated with it. And furthermore, this country is less efficient than many that do not regularly tip (e.g. England and Japan). Now I am not against tipping in general. I actually tip rather well in restaurants and when I have food delivered. But when looking at the sheer number of tip jars present in all of the stores, it becomes clear that things have gotten out of hand.
Now you did point out that the tip is always optional. This much is true. I am never forced to put anything in that jar. Nevertheless, when one frequents an establishment with one of these tip jars without tipping, it becomes clear that the workers take note of it. This can lead to a feeling of uneasiness and awkwardness. Perhaps that is my problem if I can't handle the awkward feelings, but personally I don't believe I should be placed in a situation where I have to handle it. Five years ago no one would've ever even considered tipping someone that warms up a slice of pizza. Now there are tip jars everywhere, and it is a change for the worse.
On a penultimate note, I mentioned wage increases for a reason. It is true that this is not the topic of debate, but one cannot deny that low wage jobs are the ones associated with these tip jars. I don't believe any lawyers or doctors have tip jars sitting on their desks when people walk in. Those too are services, and yet no one ever tips them.
Finally, you point out that the customer is always the one that provides the necessary funds for wages. I do agree with that. However, in past scenarios the money contributed by the customer was only in the form of the profit made from purchased products. With the tip jars in place, it is like a double whammy. The customer's money is still given when a purchase is made, but then there is more given in the tip jar. It is this secondary sum that was referred to when I stated that wage increases should come from the managers. Basically, the onus of a store clerk receiving a sufficient salary should not fall on the shoulders of the customers.
GeoffG

Pro

GeoffG forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
GaryBacon

Con

I have taken note that you have forfeited the last rounds of all of your debates. Therefore, I must conclude that something must have happened to keep you from this site. I hope that it is not something terribly negative, and I hope all is well. Now on to the debate.

For my final argument, I would first like to quote a piece of dialogue from the movie Reservoir Dogs. In this scene, everyone was sitting around at a diner and everyone was told to contribute a dollar for the tip. The resulting dialogue followed (with expletives cleaned up):

Nice Guy Eddie: C'mon, throw in a buck!

Mr. Pink: Uh-uh, I don't tip.

Nice Guy Eddie: You don't tip?

Mr. Pink: Nah, I don't believe in it.

Nice Guy Eddie: You don't believe in tipping?

Mr. Blue: You know what these chicks make? They make s*it.

Mr. Pink: Don't give me that. She don't make enough money that she can quit.

Nice Guy Eddie: I don't even know a Jew who'd have the balls to say that. Let me just get this straight - you don't ever tip?

Mr. Pink: I don't tip because society says I have to. All right, if someone deserves a tip, if they really put forth an effort, I'll give them something, a little something extra. But this tipping automatically, it's for the birds. As far as I'm concerned, they're just doing their job.

Mr. Blue: Hey, this girl was nice.

Mr. Pink: She was okay. She wasn't anything special.

Mr. Blue: What's special? Take you in the back and suck your d@*k?

Nice Guy Eddie: I'd go over twelve percent for that.

Mr. Pink: Look, I ordered coffee. Now we've been here a long time and she's only filled my cup three times. When I order coffee, I want it filled six times.

Mr. Blonde: Six times. Well, what if she's too busy?

Mr. Pink: The words "too busy" shouldn't be in a waitress's vocabulary.

Nice Guy Eddie: Excuse me, Mr. Pink, but I think the last thing you need is another cup of coffee.

Mr. Pink: Jesus Christ! These ladies aren't starving to death. They make minimum wage. You know, I used to work minimum wage, and when I did... I wasn't lucky enough to have a job that society deemed tip-worthy.

Mr. Blue: You don't care that they're countin' on your tips to live?

Mr. Pink: (starts rubbing his thumb and forefinger together) You know what this is? It's the world's smallest violin, playing just for the waitresses.

Mr. White: You don't have any idea what you're talking about. These people bust their a**. This is a hard job.

Mr. Pink: So is working at McDonald's, but you don't feel the need to tip them, do you? Why not? They're serving you food. But society says "Don't tip these guys over here, but tip these guys." That's bulls@*t.

Mr. White: Waitressing is the number-one occupation for female non-college graduates in this country. It's the one job basically any woman can get and make a living on. The reason is because of their tips.

Mr. Pink: F@*k all that. I mean, I'm very sorry the government taxes their tips. That's messed up. That ain't my fault. It would seem to me that waitresses are one of the many groups the government screws in the a** on a regular basis. Look, if you ask me to sign something that says the government shouldn't do that, I'll sign it. Put it to a vote, I'll vote for it. But what I won't do is play ball. And as for this non-college bulls@*t, I got two words for that -learn to type. 'Cause if you're expecting me to help out with the rent... you're in for a big surprise.

Mr. Orange: He's convinced me. Give me my dollar back.

Now at the beginning of this debate, I have admitted that I do tip waitresses. For the most part, I tip well. But the tip jars are in too many locations, and in comparison to other countries (and yes, we must mention other countries as a basis for comparison) the amount of tip jars that have sprung up in the U.S. are overwhelming.

It almost seems as if society heard this speech by Mr. Pink (played by Steve Buscemi) and misunderstood the point. He showed the discrepancy between society saying to tip the waitresses and not to tip the others in minimum wage positions. The speech itself was against tipping in general. But now things have changed, and society now says "Tip these guys over here, AND tip these guys." It is absolutely insane.

I know that there is no one FORCING me to put anything in the tip jars. But this misses the point. The point is that those tip jars shouldn't be there to begin with. I shouldn't even have to make the decision to elude the tip jar.

To reiterate some of my earlier points, by tipping these people we are rewarding mediocrity. The person at the bagel store or similar places does not deserve a tip, since there is no way in which that person can show extreme attentiveness and consideration for the customer.

Waitresses are a different story. Even Mr. Pink points out that the waitress could've refilled his cup six times as opposed to three. But when it comes to these everyday minimum wage people behind a counter, it's a different story. To quote Mr. Pink "As far as I'm concerned, they're just doing their job."
GeoffG

Pro

GeoffG forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Solarman1969 9 years ago
Solarman1969
I brewed beer for 15 years

for the last 10 or so, I have been more of a red wine guy

cheers!
Posted by GaryBacon 9 years ago
GaryBacon
Ha! Yes, it is the cover of Meddle. That cover is actually a picture taken really up close of a babboon's behind.
Posted by Solarman1969 9 years ago
Solarman1969
I finally figured out what Gary Bacons icon is- it was driving me nuts

MEDDLE by Pink Floyd (ca 1973) right?
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
If you don't want to tip, you don't have to. So if you like to tip put it in the jar otherwise let the people who do give a little. I like to give the change to the people at Dunkies , so what. If I don't have any , I don't tip. They don't come running after me begging.
Posted by Off_the_Wall.Paul 9 years ago
Off_the_Wall.Paul
It's kind of sneaky when you see the tip jar up there next to the register. I may never get used to this. The tip jars in the aforementioned workplaces (i.e. Dunkin Donuts) were never meant to be part of the job.
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by Off_the_Wall.Paul 5 years ago
Off_the_Wall.Paul
GaryBaconGeoffGTied
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Vote Placed by Chaucer 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Tatarize 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by kels1123 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by GaryBacon 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by solo 9 years ago
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