The Instigator
Atheistvoice
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
holla1755
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Tony Blair Was A Good British Prime Minister

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/28/2017 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 355 times Debate No: 104134
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (1)
Votes (0)

 

Atheistvoice

Pro

First Round Is Acceptance
holla1755

Con

I accept this debate.
Debate Round No. 1
Atheistvoice

Pro

I would like to thank my opponent for accepting this debate.

I would like to start my argument by saying that I am not arguing Blair was the best Prime Minister Britain has ever had, but that he was a good Prime Minister.

During his ten years in office Blair achieved many things. He got unemployment down from about 8% to 5%. He took child poverty down from about 27% to 17% meaning he took over a 600,000 children out of poverty. He did something very similar with Pensioner Poverty reducing it by over a million. Overall poverty also reduced during this time. He was also incidentally the first Prime Minister since Jim Callaghan who avoided a recession while in office and brought about the lowest period of sustained low inflation since the 60's.

In public services he invested record figures into the public services. He hired over 14,000 more police officers, 85,000 more Nurses, 32,000 more Doctors and 36,000 more teachers. He got heart disease deaths down by 150,000, Cancer deaths down by 50,000 and he cut crime by 32%. In school we saw record levels of literacy and numeracy. He build 2,200 sure start centres.

He introduced the minimum wage and then raised it to "5.52, something Britain had needed for a long time and this contributed to the steady rise in wages seen in Tony Blair's premiership. He legalised same-sex relationships and civil unions.

In terms of issues like Iraq I am sure we will come to those later in the debate.

https://en.wikipedia.org...
sorry i cant insert one of my sources but just type into google 50 best achievements of Tony Blair and its the word press article.

I now await my opponents response.
holla1755

Con

I thank my opponent for his or her informative argument of the previous round.

Every proposition is true.(1)(2)(3) "Tony Blair was not a good British Prime Minister" is a proposition. So, "Tony Blair was not a good British Prime Minister" is true. Therefore, Tony Blair was not a good British Prime Minister.

Sources Cited:
(1) http://www.debate.org...
(2) http://www.debate.org...
(3) http://www.debate.org...
Debate Round No. 2
Atheistvoice

Pro

What is embarrassing is my opponent thinks he is being clever but is in fact being the opposite. He posted 3 sources for this ridiculous argument. 2 of which are debates initiated by him. He argues this ridiculous notion about propositions being true, and in both debates he is losing.

By his ridiculous argument I could argue Tony Blair was a good Prime Minister because that is also a proposition. If it is true that Tony Blair was a good Prime Minister it must also be true that he was not a bad Prime Minister. Just give up. Either forfeit or debate.
holla1755

Con

I agree that you could argue "Tony Blair was a good British Prime Minister" because that is also a proposition. However, that argument does not overcome my side of the debate.

I agree that I initiated both of the debates I cited. I do appear to have lost both of them through the votes of other Debate.org members. However, I initiated both of the debates I cited does not imply in principle, I'm wrong that all propositions are true. Additionally, I lost both of the debates I cited through the votes of other Debate.org members does not imply in principle, I'm wrong that all propositions are true.

I believe my argument about all propositions being true is sound. You have not successfully defeated my argument, yet at least.

You may not like every argument that is put before you. But just because you don't like an argument, doesn't mean it's not a sound argument.

In principle, your side and my side of this debate are equally correct.
Debate Round No. 3
Atheistvoice

Pro

If both propositions are true then I still win the debate. You are supposed to be arguing against the proposition, "Tony Blair was good Prime Minister". But my opponent concedes that this proposition is correct. He must therefore argue that the proposition, "Tony Blair was a good Prime Minister" is untrue. I have never claimed to be arguing that the proposition, "Tony Blair was not a good Prime Minister" is incorrect. He must either argue that the proposition "Tony Blair was a good Prime Minister", is incorrect of forfeit the debate.
holla1755

Con

I am arguing against the proposition "Tony Blair was a good British Prime Minister." However, that does not prohibit me from recognizing the evidence there is that supports the proposition.

In my view, although you are correct that Tony Blair was a good British Prime Minister, I am also correct that Tony Blair was not a good British Prime Minister. So the debate will end as a tie.

Whether you believe all propositions are true is another matter. If you don't believe it, then you should be able to show me where I'm wrong in my reasoning that all propositions are true. If you can't show me where I'm wrong in my reasoning that all propositions are true, it seems you have no choice but to believe that all propositions are true.

I'm the one debating in a riskier fashion. I'm the one "putting all my eggs in one basket." You have potential here to really take me down and prove your point. Now comes your last chance.
Debate Round No. 4
Atheistvoice

Pro

What my opponent seems unable to grasp is that we are not discussing whether Tony Blair was not a good Prime Minister. We are discussing whether he was a good Prime Minister. That is the proposition we are discussing and it is true. My opponent concedes I am correct, " you are correct that Tony Blair was a good British Prime Minister". If all propositions are true then Tony Blair was a good Prime Minister. The debate topic is, Tony Blair Was A Good British Prime Minister. Con has conceded this is the case and therefore has lost the debate. Vote PRO.
holla1755

Con

Despite three opportunities, my opponent was unable to expose any flaws in my argument that all propositions are true. It readily follows from that argument that Tony Blair was not a good British Prime Minister.

All propositions are true. Therefore, I am right and my opponent is wrong. Tony Blair was not a good British Prime Minister.
Debate Round No. 5
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by PointyDelta 3 months ago
PointyDelta
This is incredibly intellectually dishonest. You should feel bad, Con.
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