The Instigator
independentprogressive
Con (against)
Winning
21 Points
The Contender
gop2029
Pro (for)
Losing
3 Points

Torture and "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques."

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/12/2007 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,192 times Debate No: 303
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (26)
Votes (8)

 

independentprogressive

Con

We must ask ourselves, as a nation of equality, who are we? The Eighth Amendment to our Constitution bans "cruel and unusual punishment" and secures the right to fair trial. Not only is torture violating constitutional law, it is also in violation of the laws ratified at the Geneva Convention.
gop2029

Pro

gop2029 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 1
independentprogressive

Con

independentprogressive forfeited this round.
gop2029

Pro

gop2029 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
independentprogressive

Con

Let me just clear something up:
Enhanced interrogation techniques are just another name for torture; one that the Bush administration cleverly cooked up.

If we torture people, anyone, who have we become? How are we to determine whether someone is innocent or not without a fair trial? If we torture people, especially those which have not been extended the constitutional right to habeus corpus, we become the very thing we deplore: terrorists.
gop2029

Pro

gop2029 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
independentprogressive

Con

independentprogressive forfeited this round.
gop2029

Pro

gop2029 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
independentprogressive

Con

independentprogressive forfeited this round.
gop2029

Pro

gop2029 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
26 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by sethgecko13 9 years ago
sethgecko13
cherrychocolate -

Thanks - the pic is more of an implication that I should probably be shut up; but your interpretations are great ideas - I think I'll steal them because it sounds much more noble. :-]
Posted by cherrychocolate 9 years ago
cherrychocolate
that's alright I've done it too, and boy do I feel stupid after lol

interesting profile pic by the way; is it a reference to anything in particular? Or are you just protesting silencing/voluntary silence/repression of rights/something else in general?
Posted by sethgecko13 9 years ago
sethgecko13
kels1123 -

Yes, you do have to explain why you're okay with torture. This is Debate.org. The entire premise of this website is that people present ideas in the format of a debate, justifications and backing are implicit to the nature of a debate. To wit:

http://www.debate.org...

The fact that you weren't the official "pro" on this particular debate is irrelevant - the forum features this comments section so that the debate can be enhanced with sub-debates and additional dialogue.

Basing your opinion on torture on a Hollywood adaptation of the book "A Mighty Heart" is distressing to say the least. The first problem with your rationale is that the suspects in the Daniel Pearl case were caught through good old-fashioned policework; tracing an IP address on an email - not through torturing information out of people. Regardless, the torture of KSM was not to obtain intel about people currently in danger - rather it was to get him to confess to crimes already committed so it doesn't fit with the rationale you've maintained.

When it comes to my government committing war crimes - I'm not willing to 'agree to disagree' and let them continue.
Posted by sethgecko13 9 years ago
sethgecko13
cherrychocolate -

You're right - my apologies. When I get worked up into a lather sometimes I don't read everything closely enough. Thanks for the kind words.
Posted by Korezaan 9 years ago
Korezaan
Best debate I've ever seen.
Posted by cherrychocolate 9 years ago
cherrychocolate
kels1123 - you didn't address what I consider to be the most important point: that people are often arrested and held and, yes, tortured, without ever being told the charges against them - in fact, usually as a result of racial profiling, which pretty much just gives our security officers license to be racist if they like. If that's not a blatant violation of the rights we claim to treasure and protect as Americans then I'm not sure what is.
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
I don't have to explain why I am okay with torture, I'm not telling you to explain, since I never took part in the actual debate I am not the PRO . I am just stating that I personally am okay with torture in some cases. When I hear the story about Danny Pearl and I saw the movie and he is beheaded and they torture the guys to get info it doesn't bother me. Thats just my personal opinion. They are not killing them , they are holding them hostage to get information. I have seen interviews with some of the people involved in this and they have arrested some major members of Al Qaeda, from using torture such as loud music , sleep deprivation and water boarding. I am not okay with killing someone,but torture such as these methods I'm okay with. You have your opinion , I have mine.
Posted by cherrychocolate 9 years ago
cherrychocolate
sethgecko13 - i'm WITH you. reread my comment :)
but good job refuting everyone else you're kind of my hero now
Posted by sethgecko13 9 years ago
sethgecko13
kels1123 -

Again, you're wrongly presuming that everyone we have in custody is a "terrorist." MANY are not.

We've mistakenly grabbed up hundreds and hundreds of people - and because we've denied them the due process they're entitled under the Geneva Conventions (and US law) we don't find out until after we've had them in custody for months or years that they are completely innocent and were (for example) sold to us by people seeking the bounties we've been paying. To wit:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com...
http://www.washingtonpost.com...

You have provided ZERO evidence that torture works, and yet you still doggedly buy into it. Conversely, interrogation experts are virtually uniform in their condemnation of torture:

http://www.washingtonpost.com...
http://www.washingtonpost.com...
http://www.sptimes.com...
http://abcnews.go.com...
http://www.amnestyusa.org...

Do you have anything more compelling than your self-righteous posturing about nonexistent, abstract hypothetical "they've-got-my-daughter-and-won't-tell-me-where-she-is" scenarios? This isn't an episode of "24." This is real life where we virtually never get confirmation of guilt, and where the experts with fancy degrees who have actually STUDIED these techniques have concluded that they don't work.

All that aside - I have another question: if you do believe we should use torture, do you at least agree that we should withdraw from or modify the Geneva Conventions and the War Crimes Act of 1996 so that what we're doing is legal (instead of secretly committing illegal acts)?
Posted by arrivaltime 9 years ago
arrivaltime
Remind me again what we've got from torturing people that was actually true?
8 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Vote Placed by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
independentprogressivegop2029Tied
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Vote Placed by afeinberg 9 years ago
afeinberg
independentprogressivegop2029Tied
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Vote Placed by jordanbs 9 years ago
jordanbs
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Vote Placed by tarsjake 9 years ago
tarsjake
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Vote Placed by righty10294 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by zakkuchan 9 years ago
zakkuchan
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Vote Placed by Korezaan 9 years ago
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Vote Placed by Cybourgeoisie 9 years ago
Cybourgeoisie
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