Trans people should be able to use the locker rooms/bathrooms matching their gender identity.
Debate Rounds (4)
Round 1: Acceptance
Round 2: Arguments, no rebuttals.
Round 3: Rebuttals, new arguments allowed.
Round 4: Concluding statements, no new arguments or rebuttals allowed.
1. No transphobic language. Tranny, transvestite, and transsexual will not be used. Trans males (FTM) will be called "he", trans females (MTF) will be called "she".
Firstly, by making people use the restrooms that DON'T match their gender, you're actually doing exactly what you're trying to eliminate: putting men in women's bathrooms and women in men's bathrooms. By trapping people in these restrooms due to their sex organs, you're really creating the very problem you're trying to avoid. I don't need a source on this, because it's simply common sense.
Secondly, by passing bills such as the one recently passed in some states, requiring genitals to be checked before entering a restroom, you're actually creating more circumstances where sexual assault could occur. This seems to be one of the main concerns about letting trans people use their bathrooms. But, by forcing genitals to be checked (according to some of these bills, even for CHILDREN), it opens the possibility that these people could be raped or assaulted.
Trans people should be able to use their correct restroom, and not only that, but they should have a harassment-free environment as well. Really, they're just like anyone else. Their main priority in going into a bathroom is to do their business and leave, like anyone else. In fact, according to this study and survey of trans people (http://thinkprogress.org...), trans people experience much of the discrimination in bathrooms, actually. It even says that one respondent reported they were sexually assaulted. Would you go through all that, just to have an ulterior motive? I sure wouldn't.
Once again I have to say that reality and common sense have to come in to play again at some point.
Regardless of how a person perceives their sexuality, a persons physical anatomy is what it is. And as usual, the PC police have decided to take the feelings of the very few and put them above the feelings of the bulk of society.
If a guy that thinks he's a girl is allowed into a girls locker room to avoid making him uncomfortable or hurting his feelings, what about the feelings and comfort of the 20 or 30 girls in the room? Why should this guy's comfort and feelings come before their's?
The same goes for the opposite. I've been a teenage boy and I can tell you that no matter how a girl sees her gender, a room full of boys are going to see her as a naked girl. You want to talk about things that may spawn sexual assault....
And this is just assuming the guy really thinks he's a girl. What if he's just a good actor that wants to perv on a bunch of naked girls? How do you know for sure? I wouldn't want my daughter there.
I've never heard of the laws you're talking about where they check genitals before they let someone into a bathroom and find it hard to believe. I'll have to look that up when I have time.
But the fact is that the male and female anatomies are different and by trying to force guys and girls to shower together over 1 person's alleged gender identity issues is ridiculous and offensive to the vast majority of the people involved.
If, as you say, they just want to use the bathroom and/or locker room and move on, then why is it so important that they pee in a room that matches them psychologically instead of physically?
People have all kinds of psychological issues. Do we really want to start changing the most basic rules and laws of society based on everyone's perception of themselves?
If a man truly believes deep down inside that he's an airline pilot even though he's not, do we let him in the cockpit to avoid hurting his feelings?
If a convicted child molester truly believes that his victims love him and what he does, do we let him open a day care?
If a 40 year old man truly and honestly believes he's a 14 year old girl, do you let him shower with your daughter?
Reality is reality. If a "trans" person cannot accept the reality of what they are, that's their issue that they need to deal with. It is not the rest of society's job to try to accommodate them or make themselves feel strange and uncomfortable to avoid hurting their feelings.
And lastly, I doubt if these transgender people are being discriminated against in bathrooms that match their actual physical gender. It sounds to me like they're putting themselves in a bad situation just to prove some kind of point and force their beliefs down other people's throats. No I wouldn't put myself through that just to have an ulterior motive.
"Regardless of how a person perceives their sexuality..."
Sexuality and gender are two separate entities. They have nothing to do with each other.
"A person[']s physical anatomy is what it is."
Punctuation error, as pointed out.
"If a [trans girl] is allowed into a girl[']s locker room to avoid making [her] uncomfortable or hurting [her] feelings, what about the feelings and comfort of the 20 or 30 girls in the room? Why should this [girl]'s comfort and feelings come before their[s]?"
Punctuation errors, breaking of rules, and unnecessary apostrophes in this statement. I don't see why there would be any problem with a girl using a girl's locker room, honestly. And, I think the comfort of everyone involved should be taken into consideration, but if we forced this girl to use the boy's room, THAT would be "forcing girls and boys to shower together", as I pointed out in round one.
"The same goes for the opposite. I've been a teenage boy and I can tell you that no matter how a [boy] sees [his] gender, a room full of boys will still [wrongly] see [him] as a naked girl. You want to talk about things that may spawn sexual assault..."
Breaking of rules in this paragraph. Are you trying to defend sexual assault and harassment of a person if they're trans? Disgusting, in my opinion.
"And this is assuming the [girl] really [is a girl]. What if [she's] just a good actor that wants to perv on a bunch of naked girls? How do you know for sure?"
I pointed this out in round 2. And, this argument is about ACTUAL trans people. These "pervs", as you say, are irrelevant to the debate.
"I've never heard of the laws you're talking about..."
Source here: (http://thinkprogress.org...) and here (http://www.chicagotribune.com...).
"If, as you say, they just want to... why is it so important that they pee in a room that matches them psychologically...?"
I made my point about this earlier in round 2, and in this round.
"I doubt if these transgender people are being discriminated against..."
Source provided in round 2.
I did look up the Washington State law that you're referring to and it's not at all how you attempt to make it look.
There's not "gender police" to be stationed outside of every bathroom to look down people's pants. It just states that men should stay out of the women's room and visa-versa. The only time this would be an issue or require a "genital check" is if someone is suspected of breaking the law.
And sorry, but male is male and female is female. Just because someone says different doesn't change the facts.
More PC nonsense.
You broke numerous rules, did not have good conduct, and were the one who dismissed my points, by calling them nonsense. Vote Pro, my friends.
I'm not a professional debater but I am quite good at getting my opinions across and making my points without being insulting as I feel I did during this discussion. The occasional grammar and/or punctuation errors happen. I'm not an English professor and really don't see where it matters when making a point. I think I did a ok saying what I wanted to say.
In spite of your opinions to the contrary, gender and sexuality are not totally exclusive of each other. As usual the PC opinions are put in place to make everything that fits their agenda seem normal and everything normal seem bigoted.
I don't want guys (no matter what you want to call them) showering with my daughter or my granddaughter and I don't want women in the men's room just because they want to pretend to be a man, and I'm pretty sure that 99.99% of voting, tax paying American citizens would agree with me.
So you can claim victory on this debate based on your rules and grammar, but I'm pretty sure as far as valid points and reality is concerned, I have won this hands down.
I look forward to debating you again. It was fun. By the way, I love Gorillaz.
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