The Instigator
UnKarmafied
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
themohawkninja
Con (against)
Winning
6 Points

Transgender people perpetuate gender stereotypes.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
themohawkninja
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/7/2013 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,622 times Debate No: 40114
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (1)

 

UnKarmafied

Pro

Being transgender means that although physically or genetically you are male or female but you choose to be a woman or a man. However what does choosing to be a man or woman mean? Usually people who are trangender change the types of clothes they wear, their hairstyles or other things about these lifestyles. However by changing these things, are they saying that, for instance, men are not allowed to wear skirts or make up? Women cannot perform "manly tasks". By changing their lifestyle, aren't the defining different genders and creating or conforming to standards held strict for women and men for centuries. And aren't we right now trying to work towards a society that doesn't judge people by those standards? Are we trying to build a society where everyone feels free to do anything they want (as long as it harms no-one)? I'm just think about it. Tell me what you think or find my blog, Unkarmafied, and discuss it with me.
themohawkninja

Con

I accept and will use the definition of a transgendered person that you have asserted.

"Usually people who are trangender change the types of clothes they wear, their hairstyles or other things about these lifestyles."

You assert no sources to prove that point.

Secondly, why should this matter? Women tend to wear different clothes and wear different hair styles than men do. This does no harm to society, as it is what women want. Most men wouldn't want to wear a dress or a bra, because if they did, then more men would wear them, and they would be advertised towards men.

"However by changing these things, are they saying that, for instance, men are not allowed to wear skirts or make up?"

Wouldn't transgendered people be asserting the exact opposite, as in the fact of being male, and wearing skirts or makeup, they are making the point that men can do these things?

"Women cannot perform "manly tasks". By changing their lifestyle, aren't the defining different genders and creating or conforming to standards held strict for women and men for centuries."

There are women that can perform "manly" (to which I will assume you mean tasks that require much physical labor) duties. For example, in the Israeli military women constitute 25% of Officers, and 20% of Career Soldiers [1].

I cannot understand the second sentence.

"...aren't we right now trying to work towards a society that doesn't judge people by [their gender]?"

Yes, we as a society are working towards no gender discrimination, and transgendered people can be a good example of that. If a transgendered person is treated equally in society relative to men and women, then it can be asserted that all genders are treated equally. This is what society should strive for.

1. http://www.idfblog.com...
Debate Round No. 1
UnKarmafied

Pro

Can we agree that for the sake of our debate the terms male/female will refer to Sex while woman/man will refer to Gender?

"This does no harm to society, as it is what women want. Most men wouldn't want to wear a dress or a bra"

I don't believe this is necessarily what women want. I think this is what women are told to want. If you grow up in a society with parents friends and strangers telling you: "wear this, look like that" the majority will follow those rules and go on to pass them on to children, friends and strangers. It is not what women "want" or what men "want" it is what they do to try to fit into a society's rules and feel most comfortable.

"Wouldn't transgender people be asserting the exact opposite, as in the fact of being male, and wearing skirts or makeup, they are making the point that men can do these things?"

They aren't asserting that men can do these things because of the fact that they consider themselves women not men. They may be saying that males can wear skirts or dresses but that isn't the issue at hand here. I am trying to discuss the implications transgender people make when they change the social gender and begin to wear different things and perform different tasks according to their GENDER. Doesn't that very fact implicate that there are rules that a certain gender must follow?

"For instance, men are not allowed to wear skirts or makeup? Women cannot perform "manly tasks"? By changing their lifestyle, aren't they defining different genders and creating or conforming to standards held strict for women and men for centuries."

The statement "women cannot perform manly tasks" was a continuation of the previous point that these are some of the stereotypes perpetuated by transgender people because they change their attitude and lifestyles. This is along with "men are not allowed to wear skirts or makeup".

Treating transgender people equally doesn't directly promote gender equality because transgender people are not a their own separate gender.
themohawkninja

Con

"Can we agree that for the sake of our debate the terms male/female will refer to Sex while woman/man will refer to Gender?"

Sex and gender are the same thing.

"I don't believe..."

Yet you assert no evidence for it. Have you ever met a women that asserts herself to be someone that doesn't listen to society, but has long hair? I have quite a few times. As far as objective evidence goes, when one compares how many women have hair that goes at or below their shoulder and those that feel the need to conform to society, we find that 86% of women out of a poll of 136 women had long hair, while only 38% of people (this includes both men and women) would do something that the majority of others would do [1][2]. This means that (if we make the assumption that there was a 1:1 ratio of men to women regarding the statistic of conformity) only 19% of women were those that conform to the majority while 86% have long hair, which means that 67% of women have long hair, and won't conform to the majority.

"They aren't asserting..."

Since you agree with my point here, I will refute the last sentence. You are assuming that in changing genders, they want to perform different tasks. There are cases where children simply think that they are the wrong gender. Not for any role purpose, but they just don't feel like they should have the anatomy that they do [3][4][5].

"The statement 'women..."

Yet you assert no objective evidence (unlike me, who cited the military) to make your point. You are once again assuming that transgendered people perpetuate stereotypes, which I have refuted.

1. http://postyour.info...
2. http://webspace.ship.edu...
3. http://katiecouric.com...
4. http://katiecouric.com...#
5. http://www.transgenderchild.net...
Debate Round No. 2
UnKarmafied

Pro

UnKarmafied forfeited this round.
themohawkninja

Con

My opponent has forfeited this round, and therefore my rebuttal remains uncontested at the end of the debate.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by jaksunmadness 3 years ago
jaksunmadness
Gender stereotypes should be challenged to begin with but transgenders are sick in the head thinking they have to be the other sex in order to carry out the gender role they want to perform. A woman can do construction work or join the military. They can get jobs. A man can take care of children, cook and clean. Why in the 21st century have trannies arisen more? When there should be less of them.
Posted by themohawkninja 3 years ago
themohawkninja
Ah, didn't know that.
Posted by CharmanderAttak 3 years ago
CharmanderAttak
Sex and gender are NOT the same thing. Sex is the body you are in and gender is the identity people find themselves fitting.
Posted by Ahoskie 3 years ago
Ahoskie
That is a great point, that goes unnoticed.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by TrueScotsman 3 years ago
TrueScotsman
UnKarmafiedthemohawkninjaTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: RFD - Argument and conduct go to Con since Pro forfeited the last round and thus failed to address Con's rebuttal. Con was also the only one to use sources.