The Instigator
Jammie
Pro (for)
The Contender
PhilosophicalNoodles
Con (against)

Transgender people should use the bathroom that they are assigned on their birth certificate

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Debate Round Forfeited
PhilosophicalNoodles has forfeited round #3.
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/24/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 537 times Debate No: 98396
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (0)

 

Jammie

Pro

Trangender people should have to use the public toilet / public changing room they were assigned at birth, i.e if a transgender woman went into the female public toilets, they are breaking the law. The reason for this is I feel if law like this was passed, it is easily exploitable, and that the overall populace's safety and comfort is more important than a minority's.

If you agree to debate you must acknowledge these definitions:

Trangender: An individual who identifies as a different gender than the one they were assigned at birth

Transsexual: An individual who undergoes medical procedure to change their sex i.e hormone therapy.
PhilosophicalNoodles

Con

Oh boy, this is gonna be very cringy and very scary.
So... the whole reason that this can't be exploited is that there are actually a few reasons.

1: Transgender people KNOW that if they try anything, they are going to get beat up by those they exploit and will be seriously fined for it. They wouldn't get this right just to throw it away, and if you want to be transgender just to exploit the law, that seems humiliating and really expensive, you would need to dress like a transgender for a specific gender, and then you would go into the bathroom and expect not to get pummeled by someone that will definitely take you down.

2: Trans-gender people have been around forever, they have used those restrooms no matter what, there is a low chance of finding this minority group you speak of in the first place too. As they are a minority there will be a small chance of finding them in a restroom.

3: If you don't feel comfortable, you'll have to deal with it. (Trying not to be rude sorry) But seriously though, if you think this is a problem, the trans-gender community knows, they know people will abuse this right and that things will happen. We just gotta learn to let people feel comfortable. Even if it may make us feel uncomfortable, just look at race minorities, they are everywhere now and my grandma wouldn't feel comfortable sitting next to a black child, same as if she was next to a transgender. We don't like different things in our life, they make us feel weird. We just need to learn to accept people.
Debate Round No. 1
Jammie

Pro

First of all, allow me to apologise for the time it has taken me to respond. I'm sure you can accept that Christmas is a time where family comes first, and online debates second.

I will address your first point first.

You mention the expense and humility that a would-be exploiter of the law would have to go to in order to exploit transgender 'rights'. I think you confuse why I am of this opinion in the first place. My concern is not that of transgender individuals abusing the access to the toilet of their choice, like you said, they wouldn't throw that right away for nothing. I am concerned with cisgender people exploiting the law. You must note, that my definition of the term transgender never referred to the attire or appearance of the individual in any way. Who are you to say that if an individual is transgender, they should dress like one? No, by the definitions you have agreed to, an individual must merely decide that they are transgender, and they are so. Therefore, as there is no prerequisite to an individual deciding and therefore acting on the premise they are transgender, the separation of the two sexes in public toilets is meaningless, as anybody of any gender can simply announce ' I identify as male/female!', and enter in the toilet of their choice.

And now onto the second point

You mention how the transgender community is in the minority, and therefore there will be a small chance of finding them in a restroom. As I have said before, my issue is not in whether transgender people will exploit the law, but cisgender people using the access into whichever bathroom they want to exploit it.

Third point.

You mention that 'We just gotta learn to let people feel comfortable'. I agree! The problem is, you are putting the comfort of a minority above the comfort of a majority. To me that seems unfair. I think that comparing transgender rights to black rights is not a fair comparison. I understand your point, people are always unaccepting, and what is considered awful today was ok in the past. I believe that transgender people should have the same rights as everyone else. Yet I don't consider using public toilets a right. The reason I believe this is different to racial rights is that if a law passed letting transgender people use the bathroom they want, it puts everybody at risk of individuals who can bypass the system, claim to be transgender, yet do not believe it and are exploiting the law.

Again, thank you for your patience in my long response time.
PhilosophicalNoodles

Con

Hello and happy holidays! Christmas was fun for me as well, as a communist in a pro-capitalist family I just went with the flow and made my family happy, that is a good gift for Christmas :D. So anyway.

You didn't say anything about Cis-genders abusing the law, you just said trans, this would have helped me clarify what this was about, so, let me get to the argument.

The things these people have to go through is insane, the fact that they are being successful in getting the right to do this is pretty insane. So from your point of view you say that trans abusing the law isn't the problem, it is cis? Well then, what is wrong with the Trans? The trans are who you say should be assigned with their birth certificate, so can you clarify that soon? The thing is that with every law someone is going to go the extra mile and abuse it. The majority of trans-gender people know that the cis-genders will find this as a way to abuse the law, they obviously know about the argument in this. The thing is that if someone says, "I identify as male/female" there are a couple of outcomes, one of these is if you don't look trans-gender/tran-sexual you will get stomped on by the surrounding people for even trying that sort of thing, people know now that they gotta watch themselves. These people think 2 things, either your a joker, or your a pervert trying to abuse the system, it isn't until person in question walks into the bathroom people are going to do something.
Plus after a court of law the judge is most likely gonna determine that the person in question is just a dirty pervert. It's not like people can't use their common knowledge to tell who is abusing the system.

Now for your third argument, I don't like to say this but, that is sort of selfish, (not being rude just trying to be honest), and I can explain right here, the thing is as a majority you are pretty comfortable right? Well these people feel very uncomfortable, people out there would gladly beat them up and injure them just because, of who they are and how they identify themselves. Their scared of the majority because, the majority is deciding whether or not they have the right to be accepted into society. The majority that is uncomfortable has to make a law that makes them uncomfortable at the expense of someone else's comfort. The decision is all about ethics and the rights of people different from us.

It's all about a term of perspective you know?
Debate Round No. 2
Jammie

Pro

To address your first point:

If the law was in place to allow transgender people to use whichever toilet they wanted, my exact point is that cisgender people don't have to look transgender for them to exploit it. The notion that they will get 'stomped' by surrounding people is ridiculous, as they will be breaking the law, and would be arrested. The judge will not determine the person is a dirty pervert as, by law, that is discrimination against trans people, which would have encompassed people who declare 'I am transgender'. You mention how people would use common knowledge. The law has the final say, and whatever people think, the law wins. My exact point is that the system is easily abused, as people who (rightly) object to anybody going into whatever toilet they want, are wrong by the law.

And your second point

I agree with you, it is all about perspective. Yet without different perspectives, there would be no debates. I disagree with you, I think that the majority matters more than the minority, it is as simple as that.

In closing, transgender people should use the toilet that aligns with the sex on their birth certificate because otherwise we will have a system that is easily exploited, dangerous and sacrifices the comfort of the majority for the comfort of a minority.
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by missmedic 1 year ago
missmedic
I am fine with it as long they sit down when they pee.
Posted by PhilosophicalNoodles 1 year ago
PhilosophicalNoodles
they haven't said anything for a while...
Posted by ViceRegent 1 year ago
ViceRegent
The gender deluded should be executed.
Posted by Sonofcharl 1 year ago
Sonofcharl
I'm pretty sure that bathrooms aren't referred to on birth certificates.
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