The Instigator
mms21
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
condeelmaster
Con (against)
Winning
14 Points

Transgender

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
condeelmaster
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/17/2016 Category: Health
Updated: 9 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 689 times Debate No: 86770
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (16)
Votes (4)

 

mms21

Pro

I Personaly think that if you are a transgender people should, one Respect and two let them make there own decisions for instance, Locker room problems, lets say the person was born a girl and is trans, they were born with the brain of a girl. and should make the decision. if they have a sex change then I would go more towards the side of boys locker room but still not say anything and keep my mouth shut with them being their own person and can think by themselves.
condeelmaster

Con

" if you are a transgender people should, one Respect "

I disagree with this. Just being transgender is not enough to deserve respect from the others. Transgenders are not saint people or anything like that. They don't deserve respect just because they are transgender. Respect is something you must earn through action and attitudes, not just because you are one way or another. I mean by this that all transgenders should be disrespected? No, what I mean is that being transgender does not guarantee you respect.



"let them make there own decisions for instance, Locker room problems, lets say the person was born a girl and is trans, they were born with the brain of a girl. and should make the decision. if they have a sex change then I would go more towards the side of boys locker room but still not say anything and keep my mouth shut with them being their own person and can think by themselves."

This would cause a lot of problems. If we followed what Pro said, we would have girls in the boy rooms and viceversa. That's why, if someone changes his/her gender, then he/she must use the locker room of that gender. Also, the gender situation must be declared to the identification part of the government. This would stop people from acting like trans just to get into the other gender locker room.


Equity is good, but we should be careful.
Debate Round No. 1
mms21

Pro

What's in your pants doesn't define who you are. I'm sorry, but it's true. Simply because you were born one gender, doesn't mean you should be forced to believe that's your only option for you to define who YOU are. If you think of yourself as a female, go use the female's restroom. No one should have tell you that you're not a woman, or you're not a man, simply because of the role you were assigned at birth. Many members of society today still have a problem with that. But what's so hard about accepting who you are inside AND out? If were born one gender, but see yourself as another, why do you have to be so unhappy to fit into the roles the world around you says what they THINK you'd fit best? What ever genitals you've got in your pants (or in your skirts!) shouldn't identify who YOU are as an individual. And it sure as hell shouldn't define what door you're allowed to walk into to relieve your bladder. Forcing transgenders to use particular bathrooms is encouraging violence. Transgender PoC in particular are at a very high risk of sexual assault, rape, and hate crimes than any other group. Public venues are the second most common place where transgenders are attacked which includes bathrooms. They are just people trying to use a bathroom. Let them go in the bathroom that corresponds with their gender identification. and you saying transgender people don't deserve respect is wrong on SO MANY DAMN LEVELS!!!!!! like maybe you don't deserve respect??? have you ever thought of it that way? most transgender people feel different at a young age and probably don't even know that they are transgender. and every human being or living creature deserves respect and equality . take Black and White segregation for example... people made black have different area's so your pretty much saying transgender should be here???? I don't know. but just think about it:)
condeelmaster

Con

"What's in your pants doesn't define who you are"

No it doesn't, but it plays a big role. Your body is part of you. Does your body defines your gender? Socially, it doesn't.



"If you think of yourself as a female, go use the female's restroom."

I understand this, but this has to have a regulation. Imagine you are naked in the looker room and I enter. You would obviously say"hey you are a man, you can't be here". However, according to your logic, I could say "well I fee like a woman so I can be here". What I want to emphasise is that without any regulation we would have some serious problems.



" No one should have tell you that you're not a woman, or you're not a man, simply because of the role you were assigned at birth."

This is none sense. If you were born a man, you are not a woman. You may change your gender by means of operations, but untill then, you are not a woman. The same applies the other way.


"And it sure as hell shouldn't define what door you're allowed to walk into to relieve your bladder. "

I want to know if you would think the same if a man enters in the bathroom or locker room while you are there. For some reason people invented girls and boys bathrooms. If you are a girl, use the girl's one; if you are a boy, use the boy's one; if you were a boy but now a girl, use the girl's room; if youe were a girl but now a boy use the boy's one. Simple as that.


"Forcing transgenders to use particular bathrooms is encouraging violence. "

Why? How transgender can't be forced to use the gender they represent at the moment? What makes transgenders not able to do the same as non transgenders? If male's use the males room and females use the female's room, the same should apply to transgenders.


"and you saying transgender people don't deserve respect is wrong on SO MANY DAMN LEVELS!!!!!! "

It's not that wrong. What I said is that people doesn't deserve respect just for being transgender. Being transgender is not an instantaneous way of becoming respectable. Transgenders are humans just like us, some of them deserve repsect, some of them don't.


"like maybe you don't deserve respect??? have you ever thought of it that way? "

Well, maybe you are right. I think I'm a good person, but at the end that's not up to me, but up to the others.



"every human being or living creature deserves respect and equality "

Not even close to reality. So a murderer deserves the same respect as a good citizen? Does an egoist deserve the same respect as a kind person? And this only with humans, animals and plants are even further from what you said.

Plants and animals are not respected by most humans. Biological existence is such that we must kill to survive, disrespect to stand
. If you disagree with this, then you are probably dead. We eat animals, we use them us clothes, we use them us objects of tests. Every human being is participant of the disrespect and subjugation of every life form that isn't human.



" take Black and White segregation for example... people made black have different area's so your pretty much saying transgender should be here????"

Nope, not at all. What I say is that males(and males transgenders) should use the boy's room and females(and females trasngenders) the girl's one. Just that. Is a matter of respect for the other users of baths, locker rooms and others.



Debate Round No. 2
mms21

Pro

"hey you are a man, you can't be here".
Like I said..... If you were born a girl and want to became a man well if there is NO sex change then they should stay in ladies but after sex change they should go to men's because they identify as a man therefore that is correct and how they wanted to be is they changed. but I see your point but no i still don't agree. i see you in the view of bias Loose the Bias point
condeelmaster

Con

" If you were born a girl and want to became a man well if there is NO sex change then they should stay in ladies but after sex change they should go to men's because they identify as a man therefore that is correct and how they wanted to be is they changed. "

Let's examine this other quotes from Pro on round :

"What ever genitals you've got in your pants (or in your skirts!) shouldn't identify who YOU are as an individual."

So Pro said what bathroom you are able to go depends on your genitals but previously she had said your genitalia didn't matter. Pro contradicts herself.



As I said earlier, people should use the bathroom of the gender they are. If they changed their gender, then they must use the bathroom of their new gender. However, this must be regulated by the authorities to stop people from acting as transgender for malisious intentions.

Debate Round No. 3
mms21

Pro

well what's in your pants doesn't matter (or skirt) I;m just saying that what ever they're comfortable with thay should do it's their choice and life not ours to decide:)
condeelmaster

Con

" I;m just saying that what ever they're comfortable with thay should do it's their choice and life not ours to decide"

I understand that, I'm pro tolerance. However, we must put some limits in order to stop freedom to turn into debauchery.

If we permit people to enter whatever bathroom they want, there would be non transgender man entering into the females' bathroom with malicious aims( you know what I mean). Also, It would be awkward and uncomfortable for people to share the bathroom with people from the opposite gender (or that have the appearance of that gender). That's why I propose that you have to use the bathroom of the gender you identify in appearance and no other. Obviously, this should be regulated to stop people from pretending to be transgender just for the sake of their malicious aims.

Debate Round No. 4
mms21

Pro

mms21 forfeited this round.
condeelmaster

Con

Pro forfeited, not much else to say....
Debate Round No. 5
16 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by whiteflame 8 months ago
whiteflame
*******************************************************************
>Reported vote: ZachZimmey// Mod action: Removed<

7 points to Con. Reasons for voting decision: Better Sources

[*Reason for removal*] Not an RFD, the voter merely restates one of their point allocations.
************************************************************************
Posted by Shaw357 9 months ago
Shaw357
Is this a joke? Is pro a troll? Or honest to God from the deep dark depths of Tumblr?
Posted by ZachZimmey 9 months ago
ZachZimmey
Numero Uno!- Your profile says that you are seventeen, not twelve.

Numero Dos- You are not doing pretty well due to the fact that you have not presented any real information aside from your own opinionated statements.

Numero Tres- Your profile says that you are a Christian. No real Christian would support what you support.
Posted by The-Voice-of-Truth 9 months ago
The-Voice-of-Truth
That public indecency, tho.
Posted by mms21 9 months ago
mms21
okay, I don't get bothered easily
Posted by ImaRealMeanie 9 months ago
ImaRealMeanie
mms21, you don't seem to be doing 'pretty good' in this debate.
Posted by condeelmaster 9 months ago
condeelmaster
Well it depends on which child and which lawyer do you choose.
Posted by mms21 9 months ago
mms21
in my view it is, could a 9 year old be a lawyer? NO! I just started debate this week Monday, before that I had no Idea what debate was:)
Posted by The-Voice-of-Truth 9 months ago
The-Voice-of-Truth
I'm 17. Age isn't a factor. I have a friend on here who was 13 when he joined, and he is better than me.
Posted by mms21 9 months ago
mms21
hey I'm 12 I am doing good here lol
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by U.n 9 months ago
U.n
mms21condeelmasterTied
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Total points awarded:01 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiture.
Vote Placed by klaralein 9 months ago
klaralein
mms21condeelmasterTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro forfeited and didn't give any sources or warrant to her arguments.
Vote Placed by Shaw357 9 months ago
Shaw357
mms21condeelmasterTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Well that was an easy vote. Before the debate, I agreed with Con because I myself argued a topic similar to this which sided with Con. After the debate: Pro did not convince me in the slightest way to think otherwise from my previous thought on the topic, so I still agree with Con. Con used proper manners and stayed as close to the debate as possible, Pro on the otherhand was immediately overly emotional; ranting and swearing almost immediately with little to no provocation. Spelling and Grammar again goes to Con for obvious reasons. Con used logical arguments, pro used emotional arguments that lacked logic, so Con wins that point. Neither used sources.
Vote Placed by dsjpk5 9 months ago
dsjpk5
mms21condeelmasterTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro ff a round, so conduct to Con.