The Instigator
Ragnar
Pro (for)
Winning
31 Points
The Contender
Anti-atheist
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Trayvon Martin would still have died if White.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 6 votes the winner is...
Ragnar
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/21/2013 Category: News
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 3,116 times Debate No: 35706
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (37)
Votes (6)

 

Ragnar

Pro

Full Resolution:
Troll Debate: Assuming the absolute guilt of George Zimmerman, and the absolute innocence of Trayvon Martin; with the same precipitating chain of events (both still present etc.) Martin would still be dead even if Caucasian.
Structure:
R1 is acceptance (a brief introduction is fine, just not an argument with warrants). No new argument lines past R3, R4 is to refute R3 (quotes are suggested, doubly so if something in R3 opened the door to a past round or new argument line). R5 is for a final defense of arguments and summaries.
Definitions (please request any changes or additions, before we begin):
From Merriam-Webster.com
Caucasian is "of or relating to the white race of humankind as classified according to physical features."
Dead is "deprived of life : no longer alive."
Guidelines:
Wikipedia is great for finding sources, but should rarely be a source itself.
No attempts should be made to bypass character limits. A picture with a few words is fine, yet blocks of text are not. Sources are worth almost as much as argument, and should take from the argument character limit; thus TinyURL (and others like it) should not be used. Sources should also be within argument rounds (and ideally consecutively numbered).
Voters:
If in doubt, please read the DDO article How To Vote for a very basic outline: http://www.debate.org...; (in essence each area should be voted on separately, someone can win argument but lose sources etcetera: merely liking one side only relates to "Who did you agree with before/after the debate?")
Successfully refuted sources should be discounted (at some cost to argument), turned sources should be very much in favor of whomever flipped them around.
The comment section is at most for side discussions (including between the debators), and should have no barring on votes.
A votebomb is a 7point vote, biased or weak votes with less points may still be in need of counters. However counter someone or don't, never fluff up an otherwise valid vote claiming it's 'voting and countering.' Fluffing is for professionals, and should be left in their capable hands.
Anti-atheist

Con

I accept. I anti-atheist think that if that tard piss martian was white he would still be alive.

420! Smoke it up!
Praise Jesus!
Debate Round No. 1
Ragnar

Pro

Argument:
Since we all know what a bastard the white Zimmerman is, and what an angel Trayvon was, we need to begin by examining the facts that lead up to the murder; nay assassination of that dear child.


1. Trayvon was selected long ahead of time, and stalked at night through use of night vision goggles. If he happened to have been white the night of the killing, it would have been too late to find someone else to murder. Besides black people are scary at night; with the 'crime wave' in the area the coward want-to-be rent-a-cop Zimmerman, would have been afraid to pursue an actual African-American who might be gang affiliated. Doing so would probably get a price tag on his head.
Speaking of gangs...

2. Traces of marijuana were found in Trayvon's blood, and since he would never break the law Zimmerman must have put them there... Why? Marijuana is the gateway drug; from the Foundation For A Drug-Free World: "Because a tolerance builds up, marijuana can lead users to consume stronger drugs to achieve the same high. When the effects start to wear off, the person may turn to more potent drugs..." [1].
Zimmerman targeted Trayvon weeks ahead of time, and injected it into the boy while he slept, assuming he'd give in and be addicted to crack-cocaine by the day of the assassination. Consider his statement to the police prior to the killing "This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something."

3. Witnesses saw the fight, clearly one person on top of the other. There were extensive injuries to Zimmerman's head (front and back), yet Trayvon only suffered injuries to his knuckles. Zimmerman being the adult must have overpowered Trayvon, pinned him to the ground, and forcefully used the boys hands to pummel and cut his head; while the boy desperately cried for help, powerless to stop what the fat shorter man was doing. Zimmerman's history of taking grappling lessons, in addition to witness accounts of the cries; both verify that this indeed happened.

Injuries to his head, not his hands.

4. Motivation... While some question if there was indeed a second bag of skittles, which motivated this terrible crime. I have come to believe the true motivator was actually to change public perception of himself into a White man. Prior to killing Trayvon even his family accused him of being "Hispanic," yet not anymore, everyone now knows of the white guy who killed someone and got away with it. Yet it gets worse, his great-grandfather was Afro-Peruvian [2]!

5. He would have gotten away with it anyway. Since we now know that Zimmerman was actually of African dissent, were he to have targeted a white boy he would not have gone to prison; as the Roderick Scott case proved [3]. A black neighborhood watchman, shot and killed a white teenager, who never laid a finger on him. It too was called self defense.

6. Given the media bias, and the existence of spray on tanners; it's likely Trayvon was actually white at the time he was killed. And Zimmerman dyed his skin postmortem. Since conspiracy theorists insist he had plenty of time before the police would arrive to fake injuries (but not enough to put a weapon on the kid), applying massive amounts of spray on tanner to the corpse was not out of the question.

Sources:
[1] http://www.drugfreeworld.org...
[2] http://bossip.com...
[3] http://beforeitsnews.com...

Anti-atheist

Con

Anti-atheist forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Ragnar

Pro

As I have nothing to respond to, this round I shall mostly expand a side case that Trayvon was actually White. As we know he died, if he was White at his time of death such would further support the resolution.

Argument Continued:
7. Martin was almost certainly white, as evidenced by whites being cowards. First as a minor point to prove that the theory is credible, consider that Con isn't merely White, but down downright Aryan; yet he missed last round.
On to Trayvon; expert testimony was rendered prior to the start of this debate, "If he was white, he would have ran from the scary hispanic Zimmerman rather than confronted him" [4]. As he did run, and certainly did not wait to ambush Zimmerman somewhere, this strongly suggests how White he was. Sadly for him the adrenaline rush slowed him down, allowing the shorter heavier decade older man to overtake him. See point 3 above for what happened after Zimmerman caught up to him.

8. A further indicator that Trayvon was white, is this all happened in a gated community. Abraham Lincoln freed black people from living in those, I mean wasn't that was the civil war was about? Freeing black people from the tyranny of gated communities?
The Retreat at Twin Lakes in Sanford, Florida. Where the shooting took place.

9. As a setup for his eventual murder, the credibility of Trayvon was under attack well in advance. In 2011 his school attempted to frame him of spraying graffiti, even claiming he did it on video tape in a 'secure area.' They suspended him from school for this obvious character assassination. Worse is they claim to have found a dozen pieces of women's jewellery, a watch, and even a screwdriver on him [5]...

10. The Koch Brothers. A basic websearch of the word 'Koch' brings up links to the Zimmerman trail. Obviously Zimmerman did not act without firm orders, and who else would want poor Trayvon dead so badly as them? Without any logical connection to be made, I'll just claim it's because they're evil. Consider the women's jewellery mentioned above in point 9, who else but them could afford to plant so much expensive evidence on the boy and then not even report it stolen? Plus they paid Zimmerman's legal frees; while websites like Snopes.com claims this is an urban myth [6], their defense of the Koch brothers only proves that they're been bought off. Unlike a respectable news outlet like, MSNBC who never misrepresent anything for ratings.

11. Bullets to the heart generally kill white people. The bullet need not be made of silver; or kryptonite; or any other special substance. My research has not indicated such about black people, further hinting that Trayvon was White at the time of death.

Sources:
[4] Comment Section, Ore-Ele's first post (currently page 1 of 3).
[5] http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
[6] http://www.snopes.com...
Anti-atheist

Con

Anti-atheist forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Ragnar

Pro

Anti-atheist is missing and presumed dead. Given Zimmerman's long history of shooting people through the heart (he's such an expert at it, there's even a Batman villain inspired by him), it's likely his handiwork.
Anti-atheist

Con

Anti-atheist forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
Ragnar

Pro

Defense:
None needed.

Summary:
George Zimmerman beat himself bloody using Trayvon Martin's fists. Trayvon actually was white when he was murdered, but was framed of being black post mortem (since killing a black person would make Zimmerman an honorary white). This being an evil plot set up by the Koch brothers...

As stupid as all this is, it may be more sensical than some of the conspiracy theories people (on both sides) actually believe about this case.

Oh and the new black panthers are ridiculously easy to mock, but a well deserved target of it.

The horror of masturbation, his hand is stuck like that!
Anti-atheist

Con

Anti-atheist forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
37 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by maxtr 3 years ago
maxtr
@rja7, thank you for your post.
To add to your comment just consider that of all the digging around by the media there was essentially little to nothing found to indicate that Zimmerman had any malice towards blacks. They found nothing.
Zimmerman grew up around blacks and even mentored black kids. And as you eluded to in your post Zimmerman protested the treatment of a homeless man and even testified on his behalf in addition to writing political letters about the subject.
Zimmerman is demonstrably a Patriot, a volunteer, a benefactor, a taxpayer and a black activist.
People say that he is a cop wanna-be, no proofs just opinion. they say he is a racist, no proof, just opinion. etc.
George Zimmerman is a fool, he actually believed that crud about civic duty and volunteerism. Didn't he know it is better to hide in his home while somebody else protects the neighborhood kids for free?
Posted by rja7 3 years ago
rja7
Clearly we would never know if trayvon would have been killed if he were any other race.I would absolutely say that nobody in this country would of even heard about this case if he wasn't black.Being that the interest in this case are racially motivated, lets look at some facts about Zimmerman.
1.when to black neighbors moved nearby, George was the only person to introduce himself in a neighborly way.2.when Zimmerman witnessed a homeless black man being assaulted by police he convinced the man to press charges and helped him to do so.I think its clear that the media is responsible for dividing so many of us
Posted by Ragnar 3 years ago
Ragnar
Way too late now, but I completely forgot that I had meant to cite how many times 50 Cent was shot, as proof that Trayvon was not black. So if anyone is going to make another troll debate out of this, that would be a good thing to include.
Posted by Ragnar 3 years ago
Ragnar
My actual advice for people that did not laugh at this mockery of both sides in this case, is to cast zero point votes. If you were deeply offended, vote only on conduct (against me), stating that the horse dung I was passing around is worse than merely missing the debate. I will not report low point votes for deletion, as I'm a firm supporter of criticism of my arguments.
Posted by Magic8000 3 years ago
Magic8000
This will be a good test of the new reporting system.
Posted by Magic8000 3 years ago
Magic8000
I've reported all of the vote bombs.
Posted by Ragnar 3 years ago
Ragnar
Wow, 21 points in favor of the guy who fled on round2. While my initial instincts are to assume it's just one account who did those votebombs, it could be 2.

Either way, I was warned about how people may choose to vote on this; ignoring anything and everything in the debate itself, apparently to include having read the words "Troll debate."
Posted by Ragnar 3 years ago
Ragnar
Wow, 21 points in favor of the guy who fled on round2. While my initial instincts are to assume it's just one account who did those votebombs, it could be 2.

Either way, I was warned about how people may choose to vote on this; ignoring anything and everything in the debate itself, apparently to include having read the words "Troll debate."
Posted by Jaz.H 3 years ago
Jaz.H
@Millsuave: Could you please provide your source for your quote - "Zimmerman described him [Trayvon] as a F'ing Punk and Black, Looked like he was on drugs up to no good."
I have a hard time believing it without some fact to back the statement up...
Posted by Ragnar 3 years ago
Ragnar
@Con: Two hours left. If you don't contribute, my own guidelines will prohibit me from making more arguments (which admittedly jumped the shark in R2). I'll be stuck with brief jokes about why you're MIA.
6 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Vote Placed by ConservativePolitico 3 years ago
ConservativePolitico
RagnarAnti-atheistTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: ff
Vote Placed by trippledubs 3 years ago
trippledubs
RagnarAnti-atheistTied
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Reasons for voting decision: CON Forfeit
Vote Placed by Subutai 3 years ago
Subutai
RagnarAnti-atheistTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: FF and WTF at all the VBs.
Vote Placed by Magic8000 3 years ago
Magic8000
RagnarAnti-atheistTied
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Reasons for voting decision: How the hell is anti winning?
Vote Placed by Sargon 3 years ago
Sargon
RagnarAnti-atheistTied
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Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by DeFool 3 years ago
DeFool
RagnarAnti-atheistTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Troll debate, but the troll fled. (FF)