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Trinitarian vs. Oneness

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/18/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 346 times Debate No: 81128
Debate Rounds (5)
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I am a Trinitarian believer and i believe in the God head 3 in one i have one God competed by the Father Son and the Holy Ghost.


The word Trinity and Trinitarian are not stated in the bible, not in the new testament nor old. It is a pagan belief pure and simple.
Debate Round No. 1


The word it self does not necessarily have to appear in the bible to know that, thats what it was. Example "The word Human was never used in the bible as reference of any on the people in it speaking and spoken about with exception of Jesus in John 1 depending on your translation in application he ...became flesh". Yet we know that all whom was speaking and spoken about were human. you see the word it self does not have to appear there to know that this was the deity of whom God is. as there are many verses that show the trinity in one. there are not 3 gods but 3 in one. Your argument of it being a pagan belief would simple go against the bible it self by trying to render it false to the belief in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.


The word human may not appear but the equivalent in Greek and Hebrew does. When the Bible states 'man' they mean human. There is no equivalent in the scripture to trinity. It does not exist which is why it is pagan. The fact that only the Creator is God is the main theme throughout the Bible. I will provide you with the evidence.

Old Testament
1."there is no one like Yahweh our God." Exodus 8:10
2."Yahweh, He is God; there is no other besides Him." Deuteronomy 4:35
3.Yahweh, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other." Deuteronomy 4:39
4."Hear, O Israel! Yahweh is our God, Yahweh is one [echad]!" Deuteronomy 6:4
5.Yahweh is God; there is no one else." 1 Kings 8:60
6."You alone are Yahweh." Nehemiah 9:6
7."Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me." Isaiah 43:10
8."I am Yahweh, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." Isaiah 45:5
9."I am Yahweh, and there is none else." Isaiah 45:18
10."Is it not I, Yahweh? And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Saviour; There is none except Me." Isaiah 45:21
New Testament
1.'Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord; " Mark 12:29
2."you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only God?" John 5:44
3."For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus," 1 Timothy 2:5
4."You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder." James 2:19
Debate Round No. 2


i agree with you there i s only one creator but you are limiting him to the abilities of a human being. God's deity is much more complex than we can imagine and if he wanted us to understand him in all things He would not have kept things beyond our own understanding. As i express before the God head is composed of the Father, His Son and the Holy Ghost.
The first verse you used Exodus 8:10 is a pre-messianic verse where Moses tells pharaoh there is no other God but one him stating this to the fact that the Egyptians were idol worshiper and worshiped many gods so presenting the idea of the trinity to an idol worshiper would not be the best move because all believers start off with baby food not solids. All this verses are about God being a jealous God there are no other gods before him only one true God. understanding in this time the the people had accepted many idol worshiping and had turn away from God. But that verses still true there is only one true God. Still this does not explain the oneness of God.

John 10:30 - I and [my] Father are one.
If God is without the Son why would he refer as the father using the term "my" this implies they are separate yet one
to apply to the oneness would this have not made a better statement of it being the same person? example "... i and the Father are the same"

Matthew 28:19 - Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the [Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost]:
here we see the exposition of all three when the verse could have easy just said baptize them in the name of one yet it takes the time to explicitly name each and every single one of them.

Matthew 3: 16, 17
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

this is one of the most powerful verses exposing the trinity as God is in the Son's baptism the father speaks and the Holy Spirit descends upon him the God 3 in one revealed as God is.

John 14:26 - But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Here the Father will send in my name Jesus speaking and the Holy Spirit not as an energy but a person to remind us of what Jesus thought us while in earth

Colossians 2:9 - For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

this verse clearly exposes the Godhead what is the Godhead? The Father, the son, and the Holy Spirit.

for you see there are many more verses exposing the trinity and how each one of the God head with each distinct functions Compose our One true God.


I am in no way limiting the Creator to the abilities of a human being, quite the opposite in fact. God is far greater than man. In the book of Numbers it states that God is not a man nor a son of man.
You're claim that Mosses did not explain that God is actually three in one because the people weren't ready for such a concept is an assumption. Did Mosses actually believe in the trinity himself? We have no evidence to suggest that he did because the concept of a trinity is not explained in the Old (or new) Testament.
Jesus tells us to refer to the Father as 'our Father' (Matthew 6:9). According to Jesus God is my Father and your Father.

It is simply not possible for us to accept from John 10:30 where Jesus states, 'I and my Father are one' that he means that he is actually God when Jesus makes it quite clear on numerous occasions that he is not God. Here are some examples-
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. (Luke 18:19)
for my Father is greater than I. (John 14:28)
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all. (John 10:29)

Matthew 3: 16, 17 - Firstly Jesus is not unique in being Gods son, the Bible refers to many others as the son of God. Secondly there is no reason for us to assume that because Jesus, God and Gods spirit are mentioned in this one event then all three of them are in fact God.

John 14:26 - Does not claim that the Holy Ghost is a person or will appear in the form of a person. It does not claim that Jesus is God or give any indication that God is in fact three in one.

Colossians 2:9 - Where does the Bible claim that the Godhead consist of the father, son and holy spirit?

Matthew 28:19 Does stand out which is why I left it until last. However why is this instruction not mentioned in any of the other Gospels? Many Biblical scholars agree that this verse was added at a later date and is not genuine. Rather than going off on a tangent as to whether or not the verse is genuine or not, assuming that it is then it stands out as an anomaly because these important instructions are not mentioned anywhere else in the other Gospels. It is not possible for us to assume this verse means that Jesus is God because of the numerous other Bible verses that make it very clear that Jesus did not believe himself to be God. You talk of Father, Son and Holly spirit stating that the son believes himself to be God but if that were true then why would Jesus say things like this -

"Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. There is none other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:"
Why did Jesus not include himself in this Trinity equation if it is what we are all supposed to believe?
Debate Round No. 3


Matthew 6:9 this verse Jesus is teaching us how to pray because he came to fulfill the new covenant so now we can speak directly to the father without the sacrifice because through him we were made sons and daughter of God as it states in Hebrews 2:10 now this does not mean we became gods because you and i know we lack many of the attributes and this would not be possible. You in no way shape or form can compare yourself to Jesus because we know He is God divine pure and Holy.
Now on your following statements we are not debating about Jesus identity, in which statement you contradict your own self to your other debate where you clearly state you believe Jesus is God Luke 1:35 , Matthew 10:32-33, Mark 5:7, John 1:1-3,14. our debate consist of the trinity one God.
As in Colossians 2:9 you say again the bible does not define the godhead but as stated in the beginning the actual word does not have to appear but as is always mention in the bible "The Father , The Son, and the Holy Spirit" the bible speaks of the Godhead this what does this word mean to you? because even the definition found on the dictionary is "the Holy Trinity of God the Father, Christ the Son, and the Holy Ghost. " the Greek word itself theotes / triune so now what is this word according to you?
here is clearly proof of our God 3 in one the trinity and if you believe in the word of God as true then denying this aspect of it would render you to Revelations 22:19

I refer you to 1 John 5

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

see how verses 6-8 KJV speaks of the trinity and this is undeniable proof how the bible speaks of all three in distinct functions and is amplifying in the son verses 10-12 rebuke your idea of not believing in Jesus as God and also explaining the "Father, Son, Holy Ghost " more than one as one.


Isaiah and many others preceding Jesus also referred to God as their Father yet we do not see this as an indication of any of them being divine.

'But now, O LORD, thou art our father' (Isaiah 64:8)

'Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.' (Isaiah 63:16)

'Thou shalt call me, My father; and shalt not turn away from me.' (Jeremiah 3:19)

The Bible teaches us that it is not possible for any man to be God -

' God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, (Numbers 23:19)
'for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee:' (Hosea 11:9)

Any other debates I'm having are irrelevant to this one, I could be debating with someone else that I do believe in the trinity just for the sake of debating. Even so I do not believe that Jesus is God, the bible states nowhere that he is God, unless you want to refer to an ambiguous verse or a verse that has clearly been mistranslated or added 1500 years later. It is precisely because of the fact that Jesus is not God that it is made very clear that the trinity is a false doctrine.

The Greek word used in Colossians 2:9 (Theotētos) means divine. It does not mean trinity, three in one, or anything of the sort so I have no reason to believe that is what it does mean. Regardless of how a modern day Englsih dictionary defines the word 'Godhead' it is not what the Greek word in the original text means and we have no reason to believe that it could possibly mean anything else. It is in accordance with Revelations 22:19 that we must pay attention to what the original text actually mean.

1 John 5 is no longer included in modern translations of the Bible as it is was not in the original Greek Text and has been universally accepted as fraudulent. Why do you think that someone would find the need to add the concept of the trinity to the Bible unless it is a lie, a false docterine and is not actually stated anywhere else in the Bible.
Debate Round No. 4


Greek wordof Godhead theotes= also triune: definition consisting of three in one "the triune Godhead"
Mark 8:29 And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ.
The word Christ is a title translated in Greek to Khristos, meaning anointed one in this days only Kings were anointed before the ascended the throne no where was Jesus a King? if not in heaven as part of the Godhead with his Father and the Holy Spirit.

Jesus was no ordinary man as you and i. You seem to lack the understanding of the miracles he did and the prophecy of his coming that was fulfil to the dot. you need to stop comparing yourself to him because there has never been such prophecies about your birth or for that matter mine so Jesus was not no ordinary man was 100% percent man and 100% God part of the trinity. Here are some old and new testament verses for you to study on Jesus.
His pre-existence
Micah 5:2 John 1:1, 14
Born of the seed of a woman
Genesis 3:15 Matthew 1:18
Of the seed of Abraham
Genesis 12:3 Matthew 1:1-16
All nations blessed by Abraham's seed
Genesis 12:3 Matthew 8:5, 10
God would provide Himself a Lamb as an offering
Genesis 22:8 John 1:29
From the tribe of Judah
Genesis 49:10 Matthew 1:1-3
Heir to the throne of David
Isaiah 9:6-7 Matthew 1:1
Called "The mighty God, The everlasting Father"
Isaiah 9:6 Matthew 1:23
Born in Bethlehem
Micah 5:2 Matthew 2:1
Born of a virgin
Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1:18
His name called Immanuel, "God with us"
Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1:23
Declared to be the Son of God
Psalm 2:7 Matthew 3:17
His messenger before Him in spirit of Elijah
Malachi 4:5-6 Luke 1:17
Preceded by a messenger to prepare His way
Malachi 3:1 Matthew 11:7-11
Messenger crying "Prepare ye the way of the Lord"
Isaiah 40:3 Matthew 3:3
Would be a Prophet of the children of Israel
Deuteronomy 18:15 Matthew 2:15
Called out of Egypt
Hosea 11:1 Matthew 2:15
Slaughter of the children
Jeremiah 31:15 Matthew2:18
Would be a Nazarene
Judges 13:5; Amos 2:11; Lam. 4:7 Matthew 2:23
Brought light to Zabulon and Nephthalm, Galilee of the Gentiles
Isaiah 9:1-2 Matthew 4:15
Presented with gifts
Psalm 72:10 Matthew 2:1, 11
Rejected by His own
Isaiah 53:3 Matthew 21:42; Mark 8:31, 12:10; Luke 9:22, 17:25
He is the stone which the builders rejected which became the headstone
Psalm 118:22-23; Isaiah 28:16 Matthew 21:42; I Peter 2:7
A stone of stumbling to Israel Isaiah 8:14-15 I Peter 2:8
He entered Jerusalem as a king riding on a donkey
Zechariah 9:9 Matthew 21:5
Betrayed by a friend
Psalms 41:9 John 13:21
Sold for 30 pieces of silver
Zechariah 11:12 Matthew 26:15; Luke 22:5
The 30 pieces of silver given for the potter's field
Zechariah 11:12 Matthew 27:9-10
The 30 pieces of silver thrown in the temple
Zechariah 11:13 Matthew 27:5
Forsaken by His disciples
Zechariah 13:7 Matthew 26:56
Accused by false witnesses
Psalm 35:11 Matthew 26:60
Silent to accusations
Isaiah 53:7 Matthew 27:14
Heal blind/deaf/lame/dumb
Isaiah 35:5-6; Isaiah 29:18 Matthew 11:5
Preached to the poor/brokenhearted/captives
Isaiah 61:1 Matthew 11:5
Came to bring a sword, not peace
Micah 7:6 Matthew 10:34-35
He bore our sickness
Isaiah 53:4 Matthew 8:16-17
Spat upon, smitten and scourged
Isaiah 50:6, 53:5 Matthew 27:26, 30
Smitten on the cheek
Micah 5:1 Matthew 27:30
Hated without a cause
Psalm 35:19 Matthew 27:23
The sacrificial lamb
Isaiah 53:5 John 1:29
Given for a covenant
Isaiah 42:6; Jeremiah 31:31-34 Romans 11:27/Galatians 3:17, 4:24/Hebrews 8:6, 8, 10; 10:16, 29; 12:24; 13:20
Would not strive or cry
Isaiah 42:2-3 Mark 7:36
People would hear not and see not
Isaiah 6:9-10 Matthew 13:14-15
People trust in traditions of men
Isaiah 29:13 Matthew 15:9
People give God lip service
Isaiah 29:13 Matthew 15:8
God delights in Him
Isaiah 42:1 Matthew 3:17, 17:5
Wounded for our sins
Isaiah 53:5 John 6:51
He bore the sins of many
Isaiah 53:10-12 Mark 10:45
Messiah not killed for Himself
Daniel 9:26 Matthew 20:28
Gentiles flock to Him
Isaiah 55:5, 60:3, 65:1; Malachi 1:11;
II Samuel 22:44-45;
Psalm 2:7-8 Matthew 8:10
Crucified with criminals
Isaiah 53:12 Matthew 27:35
His body was pierced
Zechariah 12:10; Ps. 22:16 John 20:25, 27
Thirsty during execution
Psalm 22:15 John 19:28
Given vinegar and gall for thirst
Psalm 69:21 Matthew 27:34
Soldiers gambled for his garment
Psalm 22:18 Matthew 27:35
People mocked, "He trusted in God, let Him deliver him!"
Psalm 22:7-8 Matthew 27:43
People sat there looking at Him
Psalm 22:17 Matthew 27:36
Cried, "My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?"
Psalm 22:1 Matthew 27:46
Darkness over the land
Amos 8:9 Matthew 27:45
No bones broken
Psalm 34:20, Numbers 9:12 John 19:33-36
Side pierced
Zechariah 12:10 John 19:34
Buried with the rich
Isaiah 53:9 Matthew 27:57, 60
Resurrected from the dead
Psalm 16:10-11; 49:15 Mark 16:6
Priest after the order of Melchizedek
Psalm 110:4 Hebrews 5:5-6; 6:20; 7:15-17
Ascended to right hand of God
Psalm 68:18 Luke 24:51
LORD said unto Him, "Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool
Psalm 110:1 Matt 22:44; Mark 12:36;, 16:19; Luke 20:42-43; Acts 2:34-35; Hebrews 1:13
His coming glory
Malachi 3:2-3

Now moving forward from you trying to discredit Jesus identity whom diety is not in question on this debate as you stated our debate is on the trinity!
as of Colossians 2:9 you did not address the question therefore committing the fallacie of silence.
1 John 5 you cannot continue to use the word of God as a bag of trial mix picking and choosing the verses to fit your belief based on studies the KJV version is the most accurate to the original translation with 54 translators. Where as many of the modern versions have far less between 12 and 30 translators leaving it open to misinterpretation to the translation. This version has this verse. and yet again it takes you to Revelations 22:19 "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." King James Version (KJV) so be careful the versions you are using.

Here are some more verses that refer to the trinity i honestly don't know how much more need for proof
John 14:16-17 - And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you [another] Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Philippians 2:5-8 - Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Genesis 1:26 - And God said, Let [us] make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

John 1:1-51 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was [with] God, and the Word was God. (three in one)

1 Peter 1:2 - Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Ephesians 4:4-6 - [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

2 Corinthians 1:21-22 - Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed [us], [is] God;

Genesis 3:22 - And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of [us], to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

BTW thank you for debating with me on this topic and if you don't mind and i hope you answer this what denomination or belief are you from?


The Greek word used in the original text of Colossians 2:9 as 'Godhead' is theotes. theotes can only be translated as Deity. triune is obviously a different Greek word altogether from theotes and it means three in one. theotes and triune are in no way synonymous. They are two completely different words with completely different meanings. The word Triune is not used in this verse, chapter, book or anywhere in the Bible at all.
I did not give you the full details of when I believe Jesus was created because within this debate it is a redundant question. Understanding that the Bible teaches us that Jesus was created by God clearly demonstrates that he cannot be God. Jesus not being God is the main thrust of my argument against the trinity because if Jesus is not God then you have no trinity.
The word Messiah does not mean God. The Messianic expectations were not that he would be God. Messiah did not mean God in Biblical times and it does not mean God today. Therefore the prophecy of his coming that was fulfilled to the dot gives us no reason to assume that he is God.
I fully understand the miracles that Jesus performed and I know from scripture that he did not perform these miracles to prove that he was God but to prove that he was sent by God. This is not unique, Moses performed miracles to prove that he was sent by God also.
At no point have I compared myself to Jesus, I would never do such a thing. I've read through my previous post to you to try and understand why you would say such a thing and all I can find is that I believe that God is my father. This is not an example of me comparing myself to Jesus, I'm pointing out what the scripture says. All Christians should believe that God is their Father, whatever their denomination.
I agree that the King James version is far more accurate than the recent New International version, as you can see from my Bible quotes I use it myself. We must ask ourselves however, which would be the most accurate? The original Gospels written in Greek or the KJV written one and a half thousand years later in old English? The KJV is better than the NIV but it is not perfect, mistranslations do exist in it in some places and this has been determined by cross referring it back to the original Greek/Hebrew text. The problem is that 1 John 5 does not exist in any Bibles prior to the 1500's. This is not me picking and choosing what bits of the Bible I like and disregarding what bits I don't. It is a fact which is universally accepted by biblical scholars that are far more learned than you or I and I say that with the greatest of respect. Blindly accepting one version of the Bible despite some of its content not even being present in the original makes us subject to Revelations 22:19 and I'm surprised that you cannot see this.
I will deal with all of your verses that you believe refer to the trinity individually.
John 14:16-17 - And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you [another] Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
This verse does not present the concept of a holy trinity. Jesus saying that he will pray to the Father is furhter evidence that he is not God and therefore there is no trinity. If Jesus were God then why would he need to pray to God?

Philippians 2:5-8 - Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Firstly this verse denies the divinity of Jesus because it does not claim that he is actually God rather the form of God. The following part of verse 6 is extremely ambiguous as it can be translated a few ways which gives the opposite meaning. 'harpagmon' in the KJV is given as 'robbery' , which when read within the verse appears to state that Jesus considered himself equal to God. harpagmon can and is also translated as 'a thing to be grasped', which when read within the verse appears to state that Jesus did not consider himself (or at least want to be considered) to be equal to God. This word is not used anywhere else in the Bible so we cannot corss reference it. If it is to be taken in the KJV former translation then it is at odds with what Jesus said because he never claimed to be equal with the Father -
"Most assuredly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master; nor is he who is sent greater than he who sent him." (John 13:16)
"for my Father is greater than I" (John 14:18)
"My Father is greater than all". (John 10:29)
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. (Luke 18:19)
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Dave.Carter 1 year ago
WomanofGod, I tried to message you but you don't have your message facility open. I didn't take into account the word count and at the last minute had do delete half of my argument. Clearly I am new at this!
Posted by Meropenem777 1 year ago
I'm not entirely sure how to approach this, but basically your suggesting in the belief of the holy trinity correct? I guess if I believe in the possibility in certain beleifs of Christianity as an agnostic, then I believe in the possibility of the holy ghost. I find it easier to view reality and the heavens as fickle though. You can try to grasp it, but it will probably just slip through your fingers(metaphor). Implying that its typically a hard concept for "us" to grasp, so debating about this would likely prove nothing. This of course is merely my point of view, and people are free to believe in unicorns and magical flying puppies through faith, if they desire so. (copy and pasted. Now YOU and your PARTNER can read my thoughts, you should laud me for enlightening you =P ps: jk)
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