The Instigator
samsun01
Pro (for)
The Contender
Yehoshua
Con (against)

Trinity is a scriptural doctrine

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/13/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 267 times Debate No: 101930
Debate Rounds (4)
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Votes (0)

 

samsun01

Pro

First round is acceptance
Yehoshua

Con

Accepted. I will be proving that the Trinity is unscriptural.
Debate Round No. 1
samsun01

Pro

The doctrine of the Holy Trinity arises from man"s deepest experiences with God. It comes from the genuine living knowledge of those who have come to know God in faith.Thus, as the Father is "ineffable, inconceivable, invisible, incomprehensible, ever-existing and eternally the same" (Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom), so the Son and the Spirit are exactly the same. Every attribute of divinity which belongs to God the Father"life, love, wisdom, truth, blessedness, holiness, power, purity, joy"belongs equally as well to the Son and the Holy Spirit. The being, nature, essence, existence and life of God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are absolutely and identically one and the same.

Since the being of the Holy Trinity is one, whatever the Father wills, the Son and the Holy Spirit will also. What the Father does, the Son and the Holy Spirit do also. There is no will and no action of God the Father which is not at the same time the will and action of the Son and the Holy Spirit.

If taken in distinction, each person of the Trinity knows and loves the others with such absolute perfection, knowledge, and love that there is nothing unknown and nothing unloved of each in the others, and all in all. Thus, if the creaturely knowledge of men can unite minds in full unanimity, and if the creaturely love of men can bring the divided together into one heart and one soul and even one flesh, how incomparably more perfect and absolutely uniting must be the oneness when the Knowers and Lovers are eternal and divine.
https://oca.org...
Yehoshua

Con

To determine the truth about whether the trinity is scriptural or not, Scripture must be both cited and explained without deviating from the original message of the scripture. Having said this, none of my opponent's arguments in his most recent post for this debate meets either criteria. Thus, my opponent has conceded this round of the debate. I will, for this round, also concede in order to allow my opponent every opportunity to prove his thoughts on the matter. Meanwhile, I will take this time to study in order that I may prove my knowledge of the matter so as not to concede the debate. I am not doing this to insult my opponent as what I really want is to become friends.
Debate Round No. 2
samsun01

Pro

"Let US make man in OUR image": Three plural pronouns, (We, Us, Our) used 6 different times in four different passages: Gen 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa 6:8. The unanimous opinion of the apostolic Fathers was that the Father was talking to Jesus.
saiah saw the glory of Yahweh, but John says that Isaiah really saw the glory of Christ. This proves Jesus is Yahweh. Combine this with the fact the Yahweh said, "Who will go for US" is a plural pronoun indicating more than one person in the Godhead.

The definition of the Trinity would be:

There is only one God who is eternally manifesting Himself in three persons, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

he Scriptures used in this presentation follow. If you read them uninterrupted, you will see how clear the holy Trinity is. These Scriptures give absolute proof of the Trinity. The doctrine of the Trinity was not invented by man, but it is revealed in the Bible.

1 John 1:1 "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life
(2) (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and show unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
(3) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ."

1 John 2:22 "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
(23) Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
(24) Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father."
Yehoshua

Con

Once again, if the three are one person, why do they feel the need to consult each other in words? Also, the words being plural means that there are multiple individuals, not one person. These multiple individuals are both Yahweh and Jesus.

If Yahweh is Jesus, who spoke from heaven at Jesus' baptism? (Matthew 3:17)
If Yahweh is Jesus, why did Jesus say at his death "my God my God, why have you forsaken me?" (Matthew 27:46)
If Yahweh is Jesus, why do the Scriptures say that God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son? (John 3:16)
If Yahweh is Jesus, how could Jesus die? (Mark 15:44-47)
If Yahweh is Jesus, who resurrected Jesus? (Mark 16:6)
If Yahweh is Jesus, did humans not see God? (John 1:18)

In order for something to be proven, one must not only look at a few Scriptures and read our own thoughts into the text. Rather, we must investigate all Scriptures relating to the topic at hand, and put them together without bias. Sweet or bitter, the truth of a matter comes from objective research, not biased interpretations. Do not think: "I think this means this to me..." but always strive for clarity which is found in Scripture interpreting Scripture. It is written: "For you know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation."For prophecy was at no time brought by man"s will, but men spoke from God as they were moved by Holy Spirit." (1 Peter 1:20-21)
Debate Round No. 3
samsun01

Pro

As this booklet shows, the testimony of numerous scriptures makes it clear that the Holy Spirit is not a person but is, rather, the power of God through which the Father and Son, who are individual personal Beings within the one God family, both act. Both the Father and Christ are intimately involved in the process of human salvation"and They use Their Spirit in this process. So, quite apart from any acceptance of the Trinity, we should expect that God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit would be mentioned together in various contexts."Let US make man in OUR image": Three plural pronouns, (We, Us, Our) used 6 different times in four different passages: Gen 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa 6:8. The unanimous opinion of the apostolic Fathers was that the Father was talking to Jesus.

Isaiah saw the glory of Yahweh, but John says that Isaiah really saw the glory of Christ. This proves Jesus is Yahweh. Combine this with the fact the Yahweh said, "Who will go for US" is a plural pronoun indicating more than one person in the Godhead.
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Debate Round No. 4
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