The Instigator
TrotskyistRebel
Pro (for)
Losing
5 Points
The Contender
G6
Con (against)
Winning
10 Points

Trotskyism VS Capitalism

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
G6
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/20/2013 Category: Society
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,182 times Debate No: 33930
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (6)
Votes (3)

 

TrotskyistRebel

Pro

That a Trotskyist Society would show to be an overall better form of Government than a Capitalistic Society.
G6

Con

As you are the proposition the burden of proof is primarily on you. This is because you are suggesting one is better than the other.

If I can either prove both to be of equal, or Communist lesser, value then I can win.
Debate Round No. 1
TrotskyistRebel

Pro

This should be a good debate.

Just to start off, Trotsky argued that in Russia only the working class could overthrow feudalism and win the support of the peasantry. Furthermore, he argued that the Russian working class would not stop there. They would win its own revolution against the weak capitalist class, establish a workers' state in Russia, and appeal to the working class in the advanced capitalist countries around the world. As a result, the global working class would come to Russia's aid, and socialism could develop worldwide.

Only the proletariat or working class were capable of achieving the tasks of that bourgeois revolution. In 1905, the working class in Russia, a generation brought together in vast factories from the relative isolation of peasant life, saw the result of its labour as a vast collective effort, and the only means of struggling against its oppression in terms of a collective effort also, forming workers councils (soviets), in the course of the revolution of that year.

I'm talking about a world where people take personal responsibility for their business decisions and don't rely on the government for everything. The long-range goal of Communism is a society that provides equality and economic security for all. It can work, but hasn't.
G6

Con

I have to congratulate you on your very amazing speech in favour of Trotskyism! It was very well laid out into nice and neat paragraphs and you seem quite well articulated on the topic.

I am so very proud of your ability to copy and paste your entire opening paragraph from this site: http://tinyurl.com... In which a huge amount of its second paragraph was the entirety of your first. :) What an amazing talent you have there!

I am also so proud to find that the second paragraph was copied from here: http://tinyurl.com... and that the third was your truly original work. ;)

So, now that we have established which part of your debate is actually your own work I think it would be best if we explored what you conveyed. "I'm talking about a world where people take personal responsibility for their business decisions and don't rely on the government for everything." Now let us see what privatisation (a Capitalist concept) is.

Privatisation, in short, is the philosophy that any and all business owners should be entirely responsible for any and all business decisions that they make. The government has no say in a fully privatised economy and this would be a Capitalist one. So actually what you were talking about, or so you claimed to talk about, was a Capitalist society.

A Trotskyist society is one in which the businesses are very rarely responsible for their own decisions and very often the government is relied on for such matters. This is because over 50% of all industries would be publicly funded (meaning that the public pay taxes and the government choose where to distribute it to).

They you said a bit of truth. "The long-range goal of Communism is a society that provides equality and economic security for all." However, the long range goal of Capitalism was the entire sentence that you mentioned prior to this, almost disregarding your entire conclusion.

You then make the unjustified claim that Trotskyism can work but hasn't since you neither proved that it hasn't worked nor did you prove that it can.
Debate Round No. 2
TrotskyistRebel

Pro

Wait, hold up now. I thought that as long as you agree with the article you are allowed to re-use the information on this website. If that is not the case, (Take note this is my first debate on this website) I apologize and hope that you will find that the following is completely and fully my original work:

Regarding my unjustified claim that Trotskyism can work but hasn't yet, I was referring to on a larger scale. You might be pleased to know that there are Trotskyist organizations all around the globe, I will give you a few places now: Argentina, Australia, Bolivia, Brazil, Canada, Czech Republic, France, Germany, India, Ireland, Italy, Peru, and Poland. And those are only some of them. If it needs to be known I got that list of organizations from this source: http://en.wikipedia.org...

As I am fairly new to debating and am always open to learn I thank you for educating me on the topic of Privatization, although I had a limited knowledge on the topic, you have expanded my thinking of this Capitalist concept.

I understand how you can see that what I said (I'm talking about a world where people take personal responsibility for their business decisions and don't rely on the government for everything.") can seem like I am describing a Capitalistic Society. However, in a Trotskyist society everyone works for the benefit of everyone. One's self interest is to aide and contribute to society. Since salary is equal and the eventually a Trotskyist society is without currency is one with inequality of wealth. Capitalism is a society based on inequality, while Trotskyism is one based on equality. One could see the origins of similar societies during the Great Chinese Cultural Revolution and the earlier Soviet Union.

Thank you again for informing me on Prioritization.
G6

Con

You say that France is Trotskyist but according to this source: http://en.wikipedia.org...

Only 10% of the electorate consider themselves to be of that alignment. You can't possibly base the success of this nation on such a minor percentage of its electorate.

Germany and basically every other country that you mentioned is 0% Trotskyist and the movements in those countries which you found on your source are minority extremist movements that are very frowned upon within those nations.

"In a Trotskyist society everyone works for the benefit of everyone."

Well in a capitalist society, everyone gets what they worked hard to earn.

"One's self interest is to aide and contribute to society."

This is like saying that one's blackness is white, that one's heat is cold or that one's wealth is poor. It makes absolutely no sense as you are describing an opposite concept as being represented by its opposition.

"Since salary is equal and the eventually a Trotskyist society is without currency is one with inequality of wealth."

I think what you were trying to say here was that Trotskyism is somehow linked to communo-anarchism. I think you have confused Marxism for Trotskyism.

"Capitalism is a society based on inequality, while Trotskyism is one based on equality."

This is no reason to consider one superior to the other for you never once proved equality to be a trait of a superior economic system.

"One could see the origins of similar societies during the Great Chinese Cultural Revolution and the earlier Soviet Union."

Both of which have failed miserably and whose governments have no vowed to never return to the philosophy of Communism again.

"Thank you again for informing me on Prioritization."

You're welcome... (I think you meant privatisation).
Debate Round No. 3
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by Smithereens 4 years ago
Smithereens
Is that you Rational_madman?
Posted by Emmo 4 years ago
Emmo
pro should atleast reference sources he used, and as the other guy said wikipedia is not the best source to use, but it is your first argument here and its a learning curve, i'm also new, just try and keep it as original as possible
Posted by TrotskyistRebel 4 years ago
TrotskyistRebel
Yeah.. That was my bad, and I can safely say it wont happen again.
Posted by Arcolithe 4 years ago
Arcolithe
Wiki isn't a valid source, especially word-for-word plagiarism.
Posted by TrotskyistRebel 4 years ago
TrotskyistRebel
Sure. When ever you feel up to it, I'm down.
Posted by A.WitherspoonVI 4 years ago
A.WitherspoonVI
If You are willing to do Third Universal Theory(Gaddafhi) Vs. Trotskyism let me know.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Gondun 4 years ago
Gondun
TrotskyistRebelG6Tied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro really didn't prove anything. He did give a nice history/summary though. Conduct to Con for the copy and paste.
Vote Placed by A.WitherspoonVI 4 years ago
A.WitherspoonVI
TrotskyistRebelG6Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Con was so blatantly rude and both's arguments were poor.
Vote Placed by justin.graves 4 years ago
justin.graves
TrotskyistRebelG6Tied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:16 
Reasons for voting decision: Oh my! Copy-and-paste! Wikipedia! Eh? This did not go over well. I know this is Pro's first debate, so I cut him some slack. He gets a spelling point.