The Instigator
brontoraptor
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Udel
Con (against)
Winning
3 Points

Trump is a better candidate than Clinton for President

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
Udel
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/30/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 11 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 345 times Debate No: 92065
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (0)
Votes (1)

 

brontoraptor

Pro

I'll be arguing in favor of Trump as Pro.

1st round: acceptance

All other rounds: anything goes.
Udel

Con

I accept this debate, even though I am #FeelingTheBern.
Debate Round No. 1
brontoraptor

Pro

She is a habitual liar who lies about anything. And this isn't just simple politics or little white lies. These are big habitual lies.


*


Her claim:


In the Washington Post, Hillary Clinton said: “There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base."


TRUTH: Videos found of Clinton’s arrival show a very calm scene without any immediate danger. She exaggerated her role in foreign and domestic policy making.


Want to see for yourself? Here's the footage.




*


Her claim:
During an interview with ABC News, Hillary Clinton spoke with Diane Sawyer and spoke about how broke they were leaving the White House.


“You have no reason to remember, but we came out of the White House not only dead broke, but in debt,” she said. “We had no money when we got there, and we struggled to piece together the resources for mortgages for houses, for Chelsea’s education. It was not easy. Bill has worked really hard. And it’s been amazing to me. He’s worked very hard.”


TRUTH: In 1999, they bought a five bedroom home in Chappaqua, N.Y., for $1.7 million. In December 2000, just as they were leaving the White House, they bought a seven bedroom house near Embassy Row in Washington, D.C. The price on it was $2.85 million.


www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2014/jun/10/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-says-she-and-bill-were-dead-broke


*


Her Claim:
Hillary Clinton claimed that her email server was set up in “accordance with the rules and the regulations in effect.”


TRUTH: The Federal Judge found Hillary Clinton did “violate government policy.”




*


Her claim:


Hillary Clinton lied on her own ancestry. “All my grandparents, you know, came over here, and you know my grandfather went to work in a lace mill in Scranton, Pa., and worked there until he retired at 65. He started there when he was a teenager and just kept going. So I sit here and I think well you’re talking about the second, third generation. That’s me, that’s you.”


TRUTH:
When she was called out on it, a Clinton spokesman admitted to the error saying her “grandparents always spoke about the immigrant experience and, as a result she has always thought of them as immigrants.”




*


Her Leading lady, Huma Abedin, is an Islamic mole set on American destruction.


1)Huma Abedin has been a long time aide to Hillary Clinton, and was U.S. Secretary of State Clinton's Deputy Chief of Staff at the State Department.


2)In 2015, emails by Abedin became part of the FBI investigation and the controversy concerning Hillary Clinton's private email account while Secretary of State. Some officials within the intelligence community have said that classified information was contained in e-mails from Abedin relating to the 2012 Benghazi attack and its aftermath which had been sent through Clinton's private, non government server. So far, 1818 emails contain classified information on the private server, with 22 being classified as Top Secret.


3) Abedin has 3 family members: her father, her mother and her brother connected to Muslim Brotherhood operatives and organizations. Members of Congress alleged that Abedin had "immediate family connections to foreign extremist organizations" which they said were "potentially disqualifying conditions for obtaining a security clearance" and questioned why Abedin had not been "disqualified for a security clearance."
4)Abedin had an embezzlement charge leveled against her by the Inspector General of the State Department, but it was jettisoned without comment by Barack Obama’s Attorney General. Lucky her...
hotair.com/archives/2016/03/01/huma-abedin-might-be-the-undoing-of-hillary-clinton-in-the-end

Lies, espionage, treason, law breaking, moles...you know...a typical year with Hillary Clinton.
Udel

Con

Pro says that Hillary Clinton lies.

Many presidential candidates have lied, including Donald Trump. Trump lies every 5 minutes over 4.5 hours of speeches and press conferences.

http://www.politico.com...

Trump not only gets things wrong, but states blatant mistruths. For example he said Paul Ryan called to congratulate him after his victory in the New York primary, announcing a significant political event that in fact did not happen. He touts statistics like a 20% unemployment rate in Wisconsin that does not exist, etc.

http://www.nationalreview.com...

As you can see, both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump lie, as do most politicians which is a fact backed by science.

http://www.usnews.com...

Donald Trump is considered one of the biggest liars of the 2016 candidates, along with Ben Carson.

http://www.rollingstone.com...

Politicians lie more than most people, because their entire job is based on appealing to people and getting elected in the first place. Once they are elected, they must leverage relationships in order to implement policy. Hillary Clinton knows how to persuade people and say what they want to hear, which is the mark of a good politician. Donald Trump is about boosting his own ego, and not caring about other people's sensitivities or perspectives, which may sound good in theory but does not make for good/successful politics.

Pro talks about Hillary exaggerating a scene at the airport, possibly exaggerating how she bought her home, and her ancestry, but none of these are worse than Donald's lies and exaggerations.

Pro mentions the Benghazi e-mail scandal.

American presidents are shrouded in scandal, and some of our "best" presidents like Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan, Grant and even Jackson had their own.

http://americanhistory.about.com...

I will be arguing that this scandal is not a big deal in comparison to other points in Hillary's favor over Trump.

Donald Trump is no stranger to scandal, and has had dozens of his own.

http://www.theatlantic.com...

Some of Trump's scandals include discrimination lawsuits, and Trump University which has been called a "massive scam."

http://www.nationalreview.com...

Now as for my arguments on why Hillary Clinton would make a better president than Donald Trump.

First, Hillary Clinton has way more political experience than Trump. Politics is not just about being right but winning people over and getting meaningful, positive legislation enacted in a way that benefits the country. In a court of law it doesn't matter what is true but what you can prove. In politics it doesn't matter what is right but what righteous things you actually get done.

Hillary Clinton got started in elective office in 200. She has served as an elected official for a total of 8 years.

United States Secretary of State, 2009-2013
Sworn In, United States Secretary of State, January 21, 2009
Senator, United States Senate, 2001-2009
Candidate, United States President, 2008
First Lady, President Bill Clinton, 1993-2001
First Lady, State of Arkansas, 1979-1981, 1983-1992

http://presidential-candidates.insidegov.com...

Compare this to Trump's political experience which is none, and his business success can be attributed to his rich father who provided him with opportunities. He didn't rise to the top through prestige but an advantageous family situation. He has had several failed business endeavors and multiple bankruptcies, so he is not the perfect businessman he claims to be.

"Donald Trump is epically unprepared to be president. He has no realistic policies, no advisers, no capacity to learn. His vast narcissism makes him a closed fortress. He doesn"t know what he doesn"t know and he"s uninterested in finding out. He insults the office Abraham Lincoln once occupied by running for it with less preparation than most of us would undertake to buy a sofa. . . . He is a childish man running for a job that requires maturity." -- David Brooks

http://www.nationalreview.com...

Both Clinton and Trump have flip flopped, for instance Donald was pro-choice and now he is pro-life, and Clinton was against gay marriage and now she is for it. So let's look at the policy these people might influence and change going forward. Trump is for expanding the military which is very unnecessary and would be a massive waste of tax payer money. He says it would be his first priority of business.

http://www.nydailynews.com...

But our military is huge and needs to be reduced in size and scope.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

Donald Trump also wants to build a wall, which would be expensive and bad for trade and freedom.

Hillary Clinton supports a woman's right to choose, the freedom of gay people to get married, and responsible gun ownership. While Donald Trump claims that she wants to overturn the 2nd amendment, that is not true, as she simply favors more strict background checks. This is good for society because it lets people own guns but only the right kind of people we know won't be likely to abuse the privilege.

http://www.npr.org...
Debate Round No. 2
brontoraptor

Pro

Con:

"Hillary Clinton knows how to persuade people and say what they want to hear."

The ‘pain’ of the truth is much less than the pain of deception and having our egos pandered to. Telling people what they want hear is about protecting yourself. If a Clinton voter openly admits that she "only tells people what they want to hear," then that voter is voting based on nothing, on zero information. If she only tells people what they want to hear, then we literally know where she stands on nothing.

*

Donald Trump has been blunt about what he will do. We know exactly what we are getting.

1)We need to build a wall.


2)We need to help and support our veterans.


3)We need to deal with the trade deficit with China.


4)Wants to protect Americans.


5)Has discernment that we do have an enemy that wants to kill us.


*

Since we cannot use Hillary's words to discern what she will do, we must look at her actions.

1)She has taken $3,000,000 for 12 "speeches" to big banks and will not disclose the nature of these meetings.

According to public disclosures, by giving just 12 speeches to Wall Street banks, private equity firms, and other financial corporations, Clinton made $2,935,000 from 2013 to 2015.

In one single "speech" to Goldman Sachs, she made $675,000.


2)Is guilty of treason, lying under oath, and is under investigation by the FBI.


3)Her right hand woman is Huma Abedin, who has family ties to the Muslim Brotherhood, an organization that funds terrorist organizations.



4)Cannot admit that we may have an enemy that wants to kill us. She will never say that Islam might have something to do with terrorism.


"Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names."

-John F. Kennedy


*

-Sometimes an ideology is dangerous and threatening to free, democratic societies, and its constant action and observance of it tell the story. Naziism was dangerous and threatening. Were all Nazis bad? Probably not. Was it a good idea to keep your eye out for Nazis and be aware? God, I hope so.

Are all Muslims dangerous to the U.S.? Maybe, maybe not. We don't really know. But here is what we do know.

1)Ex Muslims say it is dangerous and threatening.

Ayan Hirsi Ali, ex Muslim-

"Wishful thinking about the peaceful tolerance of Islam cannot interpret away this reality: hands are still cut off, women still stoned and enslaved, just as the Prophet Muhammad decided centuries ago."

(Speaking of 9/11)

"It was not a lunatic fringe who felt this way about America and the West. I knew that a vast majority of Muslims would see the attacks as justified retaliation against the infidel enemies of Islam."


Walid Shoebat, ex Muslim-

"Although the word Jihad standing by itself means “struggle,” what Westerners need to focus on when reading the Hadith regarding Mohammed’s Jihad is similar to the focus needed when reading Mein Kampf (My Struggle) by Adolph Hitler."


Values of free speech/expression and freedom of conscience/religion, separation of church and state also with voting is generally what constitutes a modern day liberal democracy. Islam is not compatable with these values according to Muslims and ex Muslims alike. Yet we cannot say it? That is a threat to the existance of liberal democracy. Democracy can be replaced in a minute with the Sharia. If we turn a blind eye, democracy will die.

We also know Clinton will never face it no matter what the full truth is. That is a threat to the national security of the United States of America. She will do nothing to protect us from Islamic terrorism.

"It is common sense to take a method and try it. If it fails, admit it frankly and try another. But for God's sake, you must try something."

-Franklin D. Roosevelt

"When you see a rattlesnake poised to strike, you do not wait until he has struck to crush him."

-FDR

*

Being unafraid of being offensive or using tough language is a trait of every great leader in history, a trait of victory.

"The best defense is a good offense, I am more than willing to offend my enemies."

-Joan of Arc

"You have offended your enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something in your life."

-Winston Churchill

"The cost of freedom is always high, but Americans have always paid it. And one path we shall never choose, and that is the path of surrender, or submission."

-John F. Kennedy


Udel

Con

Pro responds to my point about the mark of a good politician (telling people what they want to hear), but does not respond to my argument that all politicians lie, especially Donald Trump. I have proven that Donald Trump lies more than any other candidate including Hillary Clinton. If Pro's point is that a liar would be a bad POTUS, then he is saying Donald Trump would be a horrible president based on the fact that he lies so much, which Pro does not deny.

Pro shows videos of Donald Trump talking about his campaign goals. We don't know that Donald can realistically implement his campaign goals. Many of them have been criticized as being Unconstitutional.

http://reason.com...

http://www.nationalreview.com...

Even so, repeating his campaign goals does not prove that Donald Trump doesn't lie. Extend my arguments on lying and extend my arguments that Hillary knows how to work with the people and other politicians better by being persuasive instead of combative. Donald Trump himself admitted that Hillary would be a good president.

http://time.com...

Pro talks about Hillary Clinton accepting money for speeches given to bankers. That is not illegal or immoral. Donald Trump meanwhile has been called "the king of sleaze" for his business practices.

http://townhall.com...

Please extend my arguments from last round about other presidential scandals.

Pro criticizes Hillary for being "soft" on terrorism just because she does not want to be quick to go to war. "It would be a serious mistake to stumble into another costly ground war in the Middle East," she said. "If we"ve learned anything from Iraq and Afghanistan, it"s that people and nations have to secure their own communities."

http://www.nytimes.com...

Compare this to Donald Trump who is a war monger and wants to get the U.S. involved in more conflicts overseas. This puts both the U.S. military and citizens in danger.

Hillary Clinton does want to fight ISIS and all other terrorist groups that threaten our national security. She has been vocal about her anti-terrorist plans, and does not deny that RADICAL Islam is the culprit. You can read the full transcripts of her speech on ISIS here.

http://time.com...

But Hillary Clinton will not Unconstitutionally swear off all Muslims. She recognizes that not all Muslims are violent or extreme, and they do not deserve persecution as U.S. citizens especially. Donald Trump has anti anti-Muslim position that is not only Unconstitutional but also very immoral, hateful and xenophobic.

Pro tries to argue that Islam is dangerous, so we should support Donald Trump's ideas. This violates people's right to equal protection under the law, as well as their first amendment religious freedom rights.

https://www.washingtonpost.com...

Islam is no more inherently violent than other religions.

https://www.jihadwatch.org...

The Old Testament of the Bible and the Torah are equally vicious as the Quran. What's important is not making religious text the law of the land, which Muslims in or entering America do not seek to do. Pro talks about how free speech and other things are not compatible with Islam, but that doesn't matter because we have a separation of church and state in this country. That's why banning Muslims is not justifiable. We have freedom of religion.

Pro's comments are unsupported. "We also know Clinton will never face it no matter what the full truth is. That is a threat to the national security of the United States of America. She will do nothing to protect us from Islamic terrorism." We have no reason to believe this. Hillary Clinton has been a successful politician and that's why she has been re-elected to office so many times. As Secretary of State she is exposed to more information than Pro or anyone in the media.

My opponent dropped my arguments on Hillary Clinton's experience making her a better candidate.

In the last round I explained why Trump is unqualified to be president, which Pro did not respond to.

Extend my argument that Trump is for expanding the military, which is very unnecessary waste of tax payer money. Donald Trump's foreign policy is dangerous. This might be because he has such bad and incompetent "advisers." The entire GOP is embarrassed by his choice of advisers because of how awful they are.

http://www.politico.com...

Trump has said that he would ask troops to break the law by murdering people. It's despicable that a president would order troops, who are supposed to be used for American protection, to impose arbitrary beliefs about immigrants and kill people who pose no immediate harm. He should be disqualified from the presidency for this.

http://townhall.com...

He also cannot be trusted with nuclear weapons. He is very pro-violence and not diplomatic. He thinks looking for peaceful solutions is "weak" when it is often necessary and the best strategy to save money and especially lives.

Extend my point that Donald Trump also wants to build a wall, which would be expensive, bad for trade and freedom.

Hillary Clinton supports a woman's right to choose, the freedom of gay people to get married, and responsible gun ownership. Donald Trump has gone back on supporting a woman's personal choice and has become socially conservative. Despite the fact that he was a cheating husband with multiple failed marriages, he thinks gay people shouldn't have the opportunity to get married. He has flip flopped so many times, far more than Hillary and that's saying something.

My opponent says we always know where Donald Trump stands. That is completely untrue. He's flip flopped on more than 10 important topics.

http://www.cnn.com...

Donald Trump has unrealistic economic proposals and his plans for trade would be awful.

http://time.com...

His economic plan has been called "utterly ridiculous" and impossible.

https://www.washingtonpost.com...

Donald makes things up and tells people (Republicans) what they want to hear, even if it is unjust, illegal or untrue.

Trump is supported by some of the most evil and immoral dictators including Kim Jung Un and evil Vlad Putin.

http://www.slate.com...

Meanwhile Trump is not supported by the current and last 4 sitting presidents: Barack Obama, GWB, Bill Clinton, the older George Bush and Jimmy Carter. The last 5 presidents agree that Donald would be bad for the job, including Republican presidents.

Hillary Clinton understands foreign policy. She is qualified and experienced. She will fight for the middle class and presents a balance of moderate politics. She is willing to listen to the people and reflect their wishes, which is what a politician is supposed to do.
Debate Round No. 3
brontoraptor

Pro

Con:

"I have proven that Donald Trump lies more than any other candidate including Hillary Clinton."

Uhhhhh...guess not...

Here is Clinton lying for 13 minutes straight. She was against gay marriage...


Con:

"Meanwhile Trump is not supported by the current and last 4 sitting presidents: Barack Obama, GWB, Bill Clinton, the older George Bush and Jimmy Carter. The last 5 presidents agree that Donald would be bad for the job, including Republican presidents."

Notice the declaritive nature of this comment...that excludes, magically, Ronald Reagan.

So...Con has referenced 2 Presidents who did not get 2nd terms, a President who was impeached, and a President who thinks the Call of the Azan is the most beautiful sound on Earth(practicing taqiya), and the President that current Democrats lathe the most and...Ignored the most popular one of all time...


*

And Donald Trump is said to be...the most like Ronald Reagan of any President...






*

Con:

"Hillary Clinton understands foreign policy."

She supported the war in Iraq. There were no weapons of mass destruction.


*

"Trump is supported by some of the most evil and immoral dictators including Kim Jung Un and evil Vlad Putin."

Kim Jong Un wants Obama's bs threats out of his face.


*

Clinton says she will continue Obama's policies. He is supported by the most apocalyptic nation on Earth who chants "death to America!" in the streets and is supported by the greatest supporter of terrorism on Earth, Saudi Arabia...

"Death to America!"



*

Con:

"Donald makes things up and tells people (Republicans) what they want to hear, even if it is unjust, illegal or untrue."

Citation needed.

*

Con:

"Trump has said that he would ask troops to break the law by murdering people."

We will need a quote on this one.

*

Con:

"He also cannot be trusted with nuclear weapons. He is very pro-violence and not diplomatic."

He has no action that has demonstrated this. Hillary has supported military action on innocent countries in real life with her actions.

*

Con:

"Extend my point that Donald Trump also wants to build a wall, which would be expensive, bad for trade and freedom."

According to?

*

Con:

"His economic plan has been called "utterly ridiculous" and impossible."

Clinton has promised to continue Obama's policies which have us nearly $20 trillion in debt.


*

Con:

"Hillary Clinton supports a woman's right to choose, the freedom of gay people to get married."

Oh? That's not what she said.


*

Con:

"he thinks gay people shouldn't have the opportunity to get married."

Hmmm...not quite...



*

Con:

"My opponent dropped my arguments on Hillary Clinton's experience making her a better candidate."

Experince with?

-Bengazi?

-Iraqi weapons of mass destruction?

-Takeovers of Lybia and Egypt?

-Support of Saudi Arabia?

*

Con:

"She will do nothing to protect us from Islamic terrorism." We have no reason to believe this."

Oh?

Clinton on Islam-


(Quran 2:191-193)

- Fight and kill unbelievers until “religion is Allah’s,” i.e. Islamic law rules all societies.-

“And slay them wherever you come upon them, and expel them from where they expelled you; persecution is more grievous than slaying. But fight them not by the Holy Mosque until they should fight you there; then, if they fight you, slay them — such is the recompense of unbelievers, but if they give over, surely Allah is All-forgiving, All-compassionate. Fight them, till there is no persecution and the religion is Allah’s; then if they give over, there shall be no enmity save for evildoers.”

(Quran 3:28)

Don’t take unbelievers as friends and allies, unless it is for “fear of them,” i.e. deceptively for protection of oneself or of Islam

“Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends, rather than the believers — for whoso does that belongs not to Allah in anything — unless you have a fear of them. Allah warns you that You beware of Him, and unto Allah is the homecoming.”

Quran death verses to nonMuslims-

Udel

Con

Pro says "Uggggh guess not" when I said I proved that Donald Trump lies more than Clinton. Then he posted a YouTube that has her lying for 13 minutes straight. Please extend my point that Trump lies every 5 minutes over 4.5 hours of speeches and press conferences. The sources I've shown (which Pro does not refute) show that Trump has lied more, along with the political fact checking website which showed that Trump lies more than Clinton. Pro drops all of this.

http://www.politifact.com...

http://thehill.com...

http://www.aljazeera.com...

http://www.vanityfair.com...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

Fact checkers say that Trump lies between 76 and 91% of the time.

http://www.politicususa.com...

http://www.usnews.com...

I have shown lots of sources proving that Trump lies including to his own supporters. Con says "citation needed" but please see every single link I have just posted above in this round along with previous rounds.

Con says I haven't given proof that Trump is pro violence. Refer to the last rounds where I gave sources and links to quote Trump talking about how he wants to beef up security and get involved in more conflicts. Here are more sources. Trump is okay with committing war crimes (see my last round explanation) along with going to war with Mexico, Syria and extending combat in the Middle East.

http://www.democracynow.org...

http://www.salon.com...

http://thehill.com...

I pointed out that the last 5 presidents all agree Trump would be bad for the job, whether they are Democrat or Republican. Pro says I have ignored Ronald Reagan's commentary. Uhhhhhh RONALD REAGAN IS DEAD and died long before Trump ran for president this time around, so Reagan cannot comment. Extend my point that the last 5 presidents (who have experience and know what the job entails) unilaterally agree across the board that Trump is unfit to be POTUS.

Con drops every single one of my points proving that Hillary has more experience.

Con says Kim Jung Un (evil dictator) doesn't like Obama. Big deal.

Con refuses to acknowledge that Trump flip flopped on gay marriage (the way he has flip flopped on so many other things I pointed out in the last round). Uhhhh sorry Con but Trump is now opposed to gay marriage, just as I said.

http://www.hrc.org...

Does it hurt to be so wrong, or no?

Anyway, Con suggests Hillary will not protect us from terrorism. In the last round I showed sources quoting her exact quotes on how she would fight terrorism along with context. Con has chosen to ignore this and pretend Hillary is okay with radical terrorism, just because she recognizes the Constitutional right to free speech and free religious expression... of course Con dropped all of those points. Donald's plans would make us less safe at home and cost money and lives. Con dropped those arguments as well.
Debate Round No. 4
brontoraptor

Pro

Con:
"It would be a serious mistake to stumble into another costly ground war in the Middle East," she said. "If we"ve learned anything from Iraq and Afghanistan, it"s that people and nations have to secure their own communities."


Violence and chaos is all you get when Hillary Clinton is involved. The U.S. being passive does not make the world safer. It makes it less safe. Sadly, the view of the current administration is to be passive towards our actual enemies (Iran, Saudi Arabia) and violent and aggressive towards our non-enemies (Egypt and Libya).


Using intelligence that was contested, Hillary Clinton urged President Obama to wage a war of choice against a dictator, made jokes when he was killed, declared the operation successful, failed to plan for a scramble of power in a then present political vacuum, and watched radical Islamists gain power and control.




Obama himself said the big mistake was,"Probably failing to plan for the day after, what I think was the right thing to do, in intervening in Libya."




*


-Clinton supported the war in Iraq.




-Trump spoke out on record against the war in Iraq.




*


Con:
"Trump is for expanding the military which is very unnecessary and would be a massive waste of tax payer money."


Terrorism is on a steep incline. When the U.S. military was formidable the Western world was safer. Now no one fears or respects it, so democratic authority has fallen in the world. If democratic authority takes a back seat, something else takes the front seat. Russia has controlled the militaristic situation in Syria. North Korea has threatened the U.S. with war many times. Iran has threatened war with the U.S. many times. China and the U.S. have friction. Putting little support towards military is a dangerous pipedream.






And we know what Trump was like and saying before politics got involved. Clinton pre-politics is a mystery. We just know she flip flops alot depending on a pandering that is formed depending on audience type. That's not very comforting seeing she never panders to the silent majority or veteran's benefits, and supported a penalty for people too poir to purchase health insurance.


*


Con drops every single one of my points proving that Hillary has more experience.


-Experience replacing world leaders with terrorist organizations, getting 4 CIA agents killed and attempting to cover up and delete emails resulting in prolonged FBI investigations for putting the national security of the nation in danger, and supporting a lift on $150 billion in sanctions on the most apocalyptic, anti-American nation on Earth?


Besides, Obama had little experience...


Ahem...and Trump is a proven builder of wealth and business. We need a President who understands financing and business leverage with other nations such as China.


Con:
"Uhhhh sorry Con but Trump is now opposed to gay marriage, just as I said."


Which Con said is a good part of politics when referring to Clinton.


*


"Donald's plans would make us less safe at home and cost money and lives."


Stronger military makes us less safe?


Cost money? Our last President spent more than all 43 previous Presidents combined, and Hillary said she would continue his policies, which according to economists would send us into a full economic collapse. We need someone to unbury us economically, not destroy us.








*


Con:
"The Old Testament of the Bible and the Torah are equally vicious as the Quran."


I've read both. The Old Testament is Kee Kee the poodle. The Quran is Godzilla. Nevertheless, Islam has no New Testament, Sermon on the Mount, or Jainism-like infallable leader like Jesus. Examples? In the OT, Moses said stone adulterers. Jesus commanded against it. Moses said no unclean animals. Jesus ate whatever he wanted. The OT had animal sacrifices. Jesus said it was useless. Islam still practices stoning adulterers and live animal sacrifices today in real life.


Their infallable role model married a 6 year old and had sex with her, had 14 wives, and bragged of beheading 800+ Jews, declared jihad, and commanded them to conceal their identities to nonmuslims, infiltrate them, destroy them, and conquer the world.


*


Con:
"Trump has said that he would ask troops to break the law by murdering people."


Quote needed.


*


Con:
"He also cannot be trusted with nuclear weapons. He is very pro-violence and not diplomatic."


That would be Liberals taking over rallies, blocking highways, and attacking police. He was against the War in Iraq and stood against Bush's war policies when it could have been suicide with the GOP.
*
Con:
"I pointed out that the last 5 presidents all agree Trump would be bad for the job."


Ronald Reagan is one of the last 5 Presidents. He is dead.


*


Ex Muslims warn of the religious construct of islam is to take over the West per the Quran.






*


Con:
"Anyway, Con suggests Hillary will not protect us from terrorism."

The current administration has put associates of the Muslim Brotherhood in key positions such as Huma Abedin who was indicted by the FBI for possible espionage. The current administration took out key world leaders who were replaced by those with ties to terrorism. The current administration cannot say Islamic when referring to Islamic terrorism.

*
(Trump in 1987)
*
Udel

Con

Pro has dropped all of my sources and arguments proving that Donald Trump lies more than Clinton. Since Pro says a liar would make a bad POTUS, by his own standards, he thinks Trump would suck for president.

I have proven that Trump is pro violence, and wants to escalate violence in the Middle East which costs lives and money. He says Clinton wants to use violence too. But in the last round he said Clinton was too soft on the Middle East. My opponent has used contradictory arguments and said Clinton is too soft, and then she would be hard. He cannot have it both ways.

In the last few rounds I proved that Clinton would only use responsible violence against terrorist threats, and Donald Trump would provoke violence with his anti-Muslim rhetoric, and the fact that he is a war monger and spend lots of money on the military and bomb the military to smithereens which his supporters cheer for.

Pro drops my points from the last round about Trump's problematic aggressive foreign policy.

Pro says that experience does not matter, but that is not true. Experience gives exposure and the knowledge and foresight of what to expect and how to handle it and be good at your job.

Pro dropped my point on all of the living former presidents (who have experience and know what the job entails) agree that Trump would make a bad POTUS.

Pro says Clinton flip flopped, but so has Trump, many many times.

And I have proven that all Abrahamic holy books are violent which I have shown with sources.

Throughout this debate I have proven that Trump lacks the experience to be president and the temperament. While Hillary Clinton lies, Trump also lies and lies more often (they both flip flop). He is a bigger liar and does not know what the job entails or how to be good at it. Trump is war hungry and Clinton is more strategic in her foreign policy. Clinton is for social freedoms (social liberalism) which I explained is a positive thing. I have also proven that Trump's economic plan is bad, worse than Clinton's, and that Clinton does not want to waste money on a wall that would be bad for freedom and the economy.
Debate Round No. 5
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1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Danielle 11 months ago
Danielle
brontoraptorUdelTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro's first argument is that Clinton is a liar. Con was able to prove that Trump lies more than Clinton, thus negating Pro's first contention. Pro then argues that Clinton is scandalous. Con agrees, but says that many politicians are scandalous liars and backs this up with sources. Con contends that Hillary's experience makes her a better candidate; Pro dropped this. Con also explains that Trump would be a bad president based on economic but more importantly military policy. He says Trump would invoke war whereas Hillary would be more cautious. Pro argued that Trump would build a wall but did not respond on his lack of experience or personality disorder. Con argued that Trump does not have the skill set or advisers in place to be trustworthy. Con points out that no living former president supports Trump. Pro's only 2 reasons for downplaying Clinton (lies and scandal) were negated by Con in R2, and then none of his counterarguments were ever addressed throughout the debate.