The Instigator
JacksonM123
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Minddagger
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Trump made 1,950 false or misleading public statements as of yesterday. This is inexcusable.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/2/2018 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 375 times Debate No: 106321
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (1)
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JacksonM123

Pro

According to the Washington Post, Donald J Trump has made 1,950 PUBLIC false and misleading statements over the course of 347 days. The fact checker was most recently updated January 1, 2018. This is inexcusable. The leader of the free world simply cannot lie that much and still be considered a good leader in any sense.

Please note that I really want to an argument supporting the idea that Trump is still trustworthy. I genuinely do, because I honestly cannot imagine what that argument might be.

Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com...
Minddagger

Con

listen, I am not a fan of trump, but why NOW of all times do they confront him about lying? in fact, half of these "misleading" statements, is promises that he failed to keep, upsetting, I know but congress just couldn't let him, in fact, Obama had the same problem, he made all of these promises that he failed to keep due to congress

plus, when has ANY president been trustworthy? they have classified info for a reason.
Debate Round No. 1
JacksonM123

Pro

Ok so first of all, could you please organize your arguments a little better? Please?? It's very hard to follow your train of thought. I am now going to address your points one by one.

I confront Trump about lying because it has gone on too long. He is averaging 5.62 false or misleading statements A DAY.

And I'm not talking about failed promises. Politicians fail on their promises ALL THE TIME. I'm talking about blatant, outright, straightforward lies. I'm talking about lies that destroy his opponents, demonize entire races and countries, and inflate his ego (which was already quite too large to begin with, thank you very much!)

Some examples of the more famous lies that he has made are things like "Obama was born in Kenya" and "90% of homicides are committed by blacks." Both of those are lies Trump made, that are nowhere close to the truth.

Just last Saturday, he said "If the Dems (Crooked Hillary) got elected, your stocks would be down 50% from values on Election Day. Now they have a great future - and just beginning!"

First of all, Trump can't make a definitive statements about how stocks would do under Hillary. Secondly, he's taking responsibility for how well the stocks are doing right now. Well the stock market isn't even doing better than normal in the first place. Also, the only reason that it is going up A LITTLE BIT is that what Obama did for the stock market is still having an effect on the economy. Trump hasn't done anything for it at all, and therefore should not be taking credit.

Scroll down the list I provided in my first argument and you'll see that they are not even counting failed promises. There are some promises on the list, but when they explain why the statement was misleading, they don't talk about whether or not he followed through. They JUST talk about the truth of the statement itself.

As for the part about Congress.... well, they don't tell the President to lie. Let me clarify that we are talking about pointless, stupid lies. An example is "Time Magazine called to say that I was PROBABLY going to be named "Man (Person) of the Year," like last year, but I would have to agree to an interview and a major photo shoot. I said probably is no good and took a pass. Thanks anyway!"

Time Magazine does not announce any indication of who the Person of the Year is until the public announcement date, which came more than a week after that tweet.

You said "when has ANY president been trustworthy?".... Well, most of them don't lie about meaningless, stupid things to inflate their egos. Yes there have been lies and scandals. There was Watergate. There was Clinton's emails. But those scandals weren't lies for the point of lying.

As for your reference to "classified info," classified means that the government is withholding information to protect the citizens of America. Trump's lies don't have anything to do with "classified info."
Minddagger

Con

First off, I would like to thank you for the constructive citizen, I appreciate your help to make my debating a bit better.

Second off, the Obama born in Kenya thing is being investigated under the order of trump, that would make trump look accusing, yes, but one of the case's witnesses was Obama's grandma. And I have not seen any denial from her saying its not true, in fact here's some evidence supporting it:

https://www.youtube.com...

but this isn't an Obama is from Kenya debate, so that's all I will leave on the subject for the round.

Next. You say that he demonizes entire races, I suppose your talking about the Muslim ban right? Then why do some of our allies and enemies do the same thing, the entire Muslim religion has been painted with slander by a good amount of world leaders, including trump yes, but remember, our ally European government arguably hates Islam more than America's government does, so I'm guessing 2 things, Donald trump is joining in on the Muslim hate to get closer to Europe,
and lets not forget about ISIS, Donald trump might be worried of potential terrorist attacks, especially after telling everyone he will bring them down

and as for the black homicides, I can explain that, small towns that are filled with Black people due to A. Overpopulation B. Racism from their ancestor's hometowns, this place dubbed as "the hood" is where black people are supposed to survive, due to the fact that their neighbors see this as a chance to get money to move out of town, and soon, the hood became a place filled with violence and chaos, fist fights, shootings, you name it, while some hoods are more sane, having just basketball and fist fights that only end when one is unconscious, their are other types that are just messed up, and I think THIS IS DUE TO OVERPOPULATION, not race.

and trump could know about stocks have you ever heard of a campaign manager? They have the inside of everything, plus, spies are a common strategy in politics, the campaign manager could easily calculate the stock loss, and the reason it its going up is because of Obama? Obama was not allowed to do almost nothing is due to most of congress being the republicans,

and I did scroll down, some of these were not even showing any proof, you cant make people believe the truth without any proof.

and for the part of your counter argument to my congress statement, how do you know they don't tell the president to lie at some points at time, also you contradicted yourself during your counter argument to classified info, how do you know that the president cant lie to protect the people, isn't that part of keeping a good secret?

and yes, other presidents have had stupid lies, there's Obama saying he didn't bomb innocent families at times, George w. Bush lied about weapons of mass destruction, etc.

I am rather interested in how you will react in the final round, so good luck to you.
Debate Round No. 2
JacksonM123

Pro

Ok so first off, Obama was not born in Kenya. Sorry, That's a fact. His birth certificate is real and legitimate. The state of Hawaii released his official long-form birth certificate.

When I say that Trump demonizes entire races and countries, I'm talking Muslims, Islam, Mexican, black... he recently said that Pakistan is nothing but "lies and deceit"... and by the way just because other countries hate Muslims doesn't mean we should. He's not doing to be friends with Europe and I'll tell you why I know that. He has personally pissed off leaders of several European countries and refused to apologize or show any regret. His policy is about "America First!" He doesn't care what Europe thinks of him. At all. And even if he did care what Europe thinks of us, that's still not an excuse to put down an entire race. Worrying about ISIS is also not an excuse for what Trump is doing. According to pewresearch.com, "Recent surveys show that most people in several countries with significant Muslim populations have an unfavorable view of ISIS, including virtually all respondents in Lebanon and 94% in Jordan."

ISIS makes up a tiny fraction of people who support or even believe in the ideology behind ISIS.

As for the black homicides, let me explain something that I don't believe was clear. Trump publicly stated that 81% of homicides are committed by blacks. This is an outright lie. It was a lie intended to make his supporters believe that black people are murderers. I'm not debating the cause of crime, which I actually agree with you on- it might be about overpopulation. But I also think racism contributes to crime, but I'm not discussing that. We can debate that later if you wish to do so.

Yeah, no one can calculate "stock loss." Stocks are pretty much unpredictable. Yes I have heard of campaign managers, but let me give you a fun fact: they don't deal with stocks. The Washington Post states "Trump of course has no idea how stocks would have performed if Clinton had won the election."

Yes it is true that Obama was blocked a lot by Republicans. But the Washington Post fact-checker states "The stock market rise in Trump's first year was a continuation of a bull market that started under President Obama -- and was mirrored by worldwide securities markets. The U.S. rise in 2017 was not unique. When looking at the Standard & Poor"s 500-stock index, it"s clear U.S. stocks haven"t rallied as robustly as their foreign equivalents." So the WP is literally referencing global stock indexes for this data.

The reason I told you to scroll down is so you could see that the fact-checker is not counting unfulfilled promises in the "1,940 false and misleading statements"

As for the part about Congress: are you actually trying to tell me that Congress told Trump to make up statistics and alternative facts on the spot to protect the American people? That is ridiculous.

Ok now I am not denying that other presidents lied. Of course they did. Politicians lie a lot. I've heard jokes about politicians lying since I was a kid. But these lies are CONSTANT. That's the difference. They happen all the time. Obama didn't lie more than five times a day. But Trump is currently at an average of 5.62 lies per day, as of January 1.

I would also like to introduce a new point.
On April 21, Trump said that China stopped manipulating its currency "from the time I took office."
On April 29, Trump said that China stopped manipulating its currency "during the election."
On April 30, Trump said that China stopped manipulating its currency "as soon as I got elected."
On May 1, Trump said that China stopped manipulating its currency "since I started running."
On May 4, Trump said that China stopped manipulating its currency "since I've been talking about currency manipulation"

ONLY the first and third statements mean the same thing.

So basically he made five separate statements about China, and each statement contradicts all the other statements, except for the case of the first two.

He literally cannot even decide what he wants his lie to be! If you want a man who can keep a confidential secret, Trump isn't the right guy for that job because he needs to be able to keep his story straight when he lies, which he clearly can't do at all.

How is this man trustworthy? How do you excuse 5.62 lies per day? That was the original question
Minddagger

Con

alright then, so you claim that his birth certificate is real and legitimate, then how do you explain the open confession from his grandma? and people can change their birth certificate, and I would imagine that Obama could easily his whole edit his to twist the truth a bit, but either way, that does not change anything, trump after seeing an open confession, could easily see Obama as suspicious.

next, you say that he does not care about other countries, than why is he settling a dispute about a Jewish city that's not even in America? and Europe, while has been enraged by us, I wouldn't say personally, could you list a direct order we did that publicly affected Europe? I also didn't say ISIS is still powerful, but the scars they left were huge, can you blame some people for being scared of a religion that a dangerous terrorist group had praised?
let me make a list of species that he so called "demonized"

Muslims: is the only race he demonized

Islam: only spoke hate about the country, you can ate a country and like the people inside, have you heard of north Korea?

Mexican: thousands of illegals snuck in and started stealing jobs, trump only spoke about deporting them, not the entire race

Blacks: that claim you made about black homicides was by 81% was an outright lie by trump, let me remind my opponent how Wild and dangerous the left is ever since trumps election, and some black people are angry because they believe that they are going to be shipped to Africa, so I have seen a fair few videos where black/white/etc beat down trump voters so left is a bit more violent, plus, did this actually come from trumps mouth? you do know that their are hundreds of people in that building, with their own different opinions on things, has it ever crossed your mind that someone wanted to slander black people and/or trump?

you say no one can calculate stock loss, then how did they get that percentage in the first place? and don't you say that the people inside the white house could have calculated it, another popular political tactic is to have spies from inside the white house to know what's going on outside the white house. also, how do you know that the Washington post has access to the world wide stock market? you contradicted yourself with this claim, at one point you say no one can calculate stock percentage, when you now claim that the Washington post suddenly has the ability to see ALL the stock percentages

"The reason I told you to scroll down is so you could see that the fact-checker is not counting unfulfilled promises in the "1,940 false and misleading statements"

yes, and I countered by saying that some of these are just not affecting any country in a negative way, that is like saying obama lied to the country in a negative way, he made false promises too, don't believe me? I have evidence that shows otherwise:

http://www.politifact.com...

"As for the part about Congress: are you actually trying to tell me that Congress told Trump to make up statistics and alternative facts on the spot to protect the American people? That is ridiculous."

First off, how do you know what the statistics are? the only evidence you have used during this debate is the Washington post on multiple occasions, second off, statistics can protect the people from panic, and the alternative facts don't hurt anyone, he just does that to please the redneck part of his movement.

you say that he contradicted himself when he said china stopped manipulating his currency, how do realise china hasn't stopped right? they just made trump think they did stop manipulating the currency, when that is not true at all, why else do you think they manipulate the trades huh? and in order to manipulate the trade, you have to manipulate the currency right?
do you think his lawyers would allow him to make a lie that has multiple contradictions, especially FIVE?

now on to your original question, think it like this, imagine half your movement being rednecks, who are racist, sexist, and homophobic, trump has to keep them the down low on what's happening, knowing how stupid the rednecks can be, trump's lies weren't directed at all of America, they were directed on the rednecks, and don't make a claim that trump is no better

and don't call him no different because trump has....

1. has employed many women in trump tower, as well having a women to hold down the press

2. allows gay marriages onto trump tower, and has hired many gay people

3. has employed black employees onto trump tower, some even having high ranks into the building, why would he want to "demonize" his employee?

in the end of the day, we can both agree that he is not the best president, but acting like lieing to a part of America, when obama has done it as well, is ridiculous.

I would like to thank you for the debate, and I wish you luck.
Debate Round No. 3
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2 3 months ago
BryanMullinsNOCHRISTMAS2
Trump is a funny comedian that tricks stupid people for kicks and giggles.
Presidents were always so serious, not this one.
Ha hahahahaha!
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