The Instigator
gloriaAlred
Pro (for)
The Contender
MyNameIsSean
Con (against)

Trump supporters are bigots.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/3/2016 Category: Politics
Updated: 3 weeks ago Status: Debating Period
Viewed: 191 times Debate No: 96661
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (0)

 

gloriaAlred

Pro

Trump fans vehemently assert that you cannot call them racist or sexist, simply because they support Trump. I beg to differ. In light of the deplorable things Trump has said about Latinos, Muslims, African Americans, and women, continuing to support him, shows at least tacit approval of racism and sexism. Of course not every trump supporter is a cross burning, p*ssy grabbing maniac. But to support a man who has said the things Trump has, shows open disregard for the well-being, feelings, and economic/social concerns of the groups he demeans. Trump supporters clearly do not think these groups are important enough to be considered or acknowledged, which is a sign that they do not view these groups as equals, who are deserving of dignity and respect. They have dehumanized these people to such an extent, that it is easy for them to ignore the interests of these groups with a disturbingly cavalier attitude. Like who cares if some Latinos or Muslims get screwed right?
MyNameIsSean

Con

Okay, since i don't live in the US my responses will be a bit delayed so apologies for that. Also this is my first debate on Trump, so if i miss out on anything bits of information, then that's why. Considering that i don't watch mainstream media given the current status of the viewers lack of trust in the mass media. http://www.gallup.com...

But anyways, before i respond i would like to define words sexism, racism, xenophobia and misogyny. (all from dictionary.com)

Sexism:
noun
1.
attitudes or behavior based on traditional stereotypes of gender roles.
2.
discrimination or devaluation based on a person's sex or gender, as in restricted job opportunities, especially such discrimination directed against women.
3.
ingrained and institutionalized prejudice against or hatred of women; misogyny.

http://www.dictionary.com...

Racism:
noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

http://www.dictionary.com...

Xenophobia:
noun
1.
an unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange.

http://www.dictionary.com...

Misogyny:
noun
1.
hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women, or prejudice against women.

http://www.dictionary.com...

First of all:
I'm not too sure where you've heard Trump supporters genuinely state that they cannot be racist or sexist because they support him, but i would like to take a moment to point out that if the supporters did actually say that, then that would be quite a big problem for Trump and his entire presidential campaign. Of course he has said some snarky and snide comments about Muslims and quite possibly about Blacks, Females and Latinos, but in certain cases they are directed at a specific person for whatever reasons that might be. Now i'm unsure about whether there are Latino and Muslim Trump supporters, but there is a possibility of that being the case and i will confirm that later on. But what doesn't seem to add up is the part about how they somehow approve of racism and sexism because Trump would actually have less supporters than he does currently, quite possibly by a noticeable margin.

Secondly:
The words sexism and racism, but in particular sexism seem to be thrown around loosely without any basis, of course there will be certain instances where there will be actual sexism towards females and yes there will also be certain instances where there will be actual racism involved. Now the reason i'm saying things such as "actual racism" and "actual sexism" is because the people who throw those 2 words around loosely when describing political parties, government groups and various organizations have no clear understanding of what they actually mean. Now i'm not saying that there is no racism and sexism within our western society because we do live in an unfortunate world where cases of these thing does occur. But what that does not mean is that people within that society are to be labelled as misogynistic and racist by default, just like in the same way that Trumps campaign is not inherently as sexist and racist. That is whats called Hasty Generalizations (i'm sure you would already know this)

Finally:
Giving the fact that you have displayed no evidence or a citation in your argument, then it wouldn't be able to stand up under scrutiny because some of the accusations in your argument are baseless which could warrant your argument to collapse on it's face. (If they're not baseless, then i will correct it)

Side note: Are you by any chance a Hillary supporter? I try not to make assertions that don't line up.
Debate Round No. 1
gloriaAlred

Pro

My reasons for asserting that Trump is indeed a racist, as well as the people who support him, are as follows,

In 1973 The Justice department sued Trumps Real estate company, alleging that the company quoted different rental rules for African Americans, than it did for whites. Another charge was that his company lied to African Americans by telling them that apartments weren't available, when they truly were. Trump tried to sue the department for 10 million, claiming defamation of character. The company settled out of court, and agreed to give A vacancy list to a certain number of black applicants. However, 3 years later, his organization was sued yet again, for lying to blacks and Puerto Ricans, about the availability of apartments. I believe this fits in with your second definition of racism: A policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering the doctrine that one race is superior, and has the right to dominate others; discrimination.

Trump also stated that a judge named Gonzalo Curiel, who was presiding over a case against Trumps own university, could not be impartial because he is Mexican. Trumps own words are: "He"s a Mexican, We"re building a wall between here and Mexico. The answer is, he is giving us very unfair rulings " rulings that people can"t even believe. Trumps own party was angered by that comment, and attempted to distance themselves from the remark.

Two brothers brutally beat a homeless Latino man, and stated that trumps anti-immigrant sentiments, were the catalyst for their actions. When confronted with this information, Trump stated that the boys were simply "passionate."

Trump made the statement: "I'm calling for a nationwide shutdown on Muslims into this country, until we figure out what the hell is going on." So ALL Muslims are terrorists? None of them are just ordinary good people looking for a better life?

It is well known to Trump, that a large portion of his supporters are white supremacists. Trump has refused to distance himself from those individuals, implying tacit approval.

Trump supported the birthers, and refused to believe that our black president was born in the us. despite his actual birth certificate being shown.

Many of these statements can be found on video, or in very interviews Trump has given. To answer two of your questions: Yes, I have heard Trump supporters become defensive and militantly assert that they are not racist for supporting him. And no, I am not a Hillary supporter.
MyNameIsSean

Con

Well then, it seems like were on the same boat in terms of not being Trump and Clinton supporters. But anyways, here is my response:

You said: "In 1973 The Justice department sued Trumps Real estate company, alleging that the company quoted different rental rules for African Americans, than it did for whites. Another charge was that his company lied to African Americans by telling them that apartments weren't available, when they truly were. Trump tried to sue the department for 10 million, claiming defamation of character. The company settled out of court, and agreed to give A vacancy list to a certain number of black applicants. However, 3 years later, his organization was sued yet again, for lying to blacks and Puerto Ricans, about the availability of apartments. I believe this fits in with your second definition of racism: A policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering the doctrine that one race is superior, and has the right to dominate others; discrimination."

Now i searched this up on Trumps list of affairs and lawsuits and it turns out that it's actually true and is indeed violating the Fair Housing Act which is a part of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. In regards to the definition of racism that i cited, you took one part of the first definition of racism and added that to the second which i'm fine with since it can be appied to the other definitions, but here is the actual second definition again in case you misinterpreted it:

racism
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

Although you have won me over in regards to the Trump housing fiasco part, there are some things that i would like to go over:

1. Trump University case.
In regards to this one, i have tried searching up this incident/court case and for some strange reason, i haven't been able to locate an article that talks about this in explicit detail. If you are able to provide an article of where this came from, i'll be able to look over it later on. However, what i did find about the case is that Trump came out with a statement where he claimed his criticism of Curiel to be "misconstructed" and that his statement was not based entirely on his ethnicity alone, but also upon rulings during the case. Curiel did rule in favour to resume the trial after the U.S election while receiving criticism from him about his way of showing appreciation as "being odd". This may not be suffice evidence for this section and if you want to continue on this subject then i'll be happy to.

2. The Latino beating incident
While what you said about them being passionate is true, however what you have seemed to miss out on is that he did tweeted out several days later after the incident occurred condeming the violence that was present and the actions of those individuals. Here is the tweet by the man himself below:

"Boston incident is terrible. We need energy and passion, but we must treat each other with respect. I would never condone violence."

Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 21, 2015

And i think that you and i can both agree that the beating of a homeless Latino man who lived in the U.S for a number of years is unacceptable and they do in fact deserve the punishment.

3. Nationwide shutdown
Well given of the number of terrorist attacks that did happen in the U.S and other countries like France as an infamous example of being hit with 2 prominent terrorist attacks, to some degree it would make sense to enact a shutdown (for the bit about France's attacks, they may be more that i missed out on). However i'm not saying that his calling is entirely reasonable, in fact i find it questionable on whether it was the right approach to take. But what would have been a much more rational approach is to still let Muslims through into the U.S, but to enact some sort of trust/behaviour bond agreement. Of course you may not agree with this and that's perfectly fine, in fact i would like to hear from you on how this should be approached and what decisions they could/should try.

4. White Supremacist Trump Supporters
Now don't get me wrong here, there is a chance that a portion of Trump supporters are actual White Supremacists who are affiliated with the KKK, but here's the problem with this: The group itself were the ones who supported Trump and Republican candidate. His son Eric Trump has made comments despising the Ku Klux Klan, in perticular the former leader David Duke. As seen below:

Both of which were from 630 KHOW Denver
"Ross, it"s disgusting and by the way, if I said exactly what you said, I"d get killed for it but I think I"ll say it anyway."

"The guy does deserve a bullet. I mean, these aren"t good people. These are horrible people."

Later on, he then praised Donald Trump for standing against the Ku Klux Klan, with the Trump camp denouncing the Ku Klux Klan's support. If you want to read the full article then i'll leave a link here for you to read at your own time: https://www.thesun.co.uk...

5. Refusal of acknowledging Obama's birthplace
Yes i will agree that refusing to believe Obama's birthplace is pretty dumb, i think that one of the main reasons people didn't accept this would probably come from the fact that Obama was born outside of the Continental United States. Also how does this fall under racism? Because in order to be a racist, you would have to believe that your race is superior and the other races are inferior. It's not really a matter of it being a racial issue, it would most likely come down to being an idiot.

In regards to your part about his statements, would you be able to provide YouTube links of his interviews/rallies? Also about your encounter with Trump supporters, it may possibly come down to the fact that Trump has made some positive comments about people from other races.

i'm also not a hillary supporter. I myself think that both candidates are unfit to become president and would rather have someone in office who can get America back on track. Since i'm not on the right or left side, i'd rather take my position as sitting on the fence.

It looks like were at the final round now, good luck and may the best person win!

(P.S. I'm also not a hillary supporter. I myself think that both candidates are unfit to become president and would rather have someone in office who can get America back on track. Since i'm not on the right or left side, i'd rather take my position as sitting on the fence.)
Debate Round No. 2
gloriaAlred

Pro

You make some good points. And to be honest, I am not sure what the solution to the issue of Muslims coming into the country should be. The reason why I consider his refusal to believe Obama's citizenship to be racist, is because he was trying to perpetuate the popular notion that Obama is Muslim, and stir up the fear and hatred of Muslims, that still pervades our society. Muslims did not attack America. Extremists attacked America. It is indeed wrong to lump all members of a group in with a few extremists.

I personally believe that Trump is a racist. but I also believe that his racism is only secondary to his desire to be president. Trump will say anything to win and become powerful, and if that means stirring up the powerful hatred and fear of mostly white, uneducated, embittered people, than so be it! Trump knows exactly what he is doing. He knows very well, that his base consists of racists, and xenophobes, and he is harnessing all of their toxic racism, to win an election. Anyone who continues to support him in light of these facts, is agreeing to at least tacit approval, of the dehumanization of certain peoples.

Below are some examples of the toxic racism, that Trump has knowingly incited.

https://youtu.be...
https://youtu.be...
https://youtu.be...
This round has not been posted yet.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by MyNameIsSean 3 weeks ago
MyNameIsSean
Sorry that i could not post, my internet was cut off for hours
Posted by MyNameIsSean 3 weeks ago
MyNameIsSean
*disagree
Posted by MyNameIsSean 4 weeks ago
MyNameIsSean
Although i'm not a Trump supporter, i disagre with the statement.
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